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cgnao
Desperation and irrelevance.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=bond
Money-Market Rates Little Changed; Fed Auctions Cash

By Steve Rothwell and Gavin Finch

Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve's plan to provide $20 billion in cash to the world's money markets failed to reduce the cost of borrowing in euros.

The rate banks charge each other for three-month loans in euros stayed close to a seven-year high, rising 1 basis point to 4.95 percent, the European Banking Federation said today. That's 95 basis points more than the European Central Bank's interest rate. It was 4.58 percent a month ago.
Gebbeth
QUOTE (cgnao @ Dec 17 2007, 08:24 PM) *
Desperation and irrelevance.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=bond
Money-Market Rates Little Changed; Fed Auctions Cash

By Steve Rothwell and Gavin Finch

Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve's plan to provide $20 billion in cash to the world's money markets failed to reduce the cost of borrowing in euros.

The rate banks charge each other for three-month loans in euros stayed close to a seven-year high, rising 1 basis point to 4.95 percent, the European Banking Federation said today. That's 95 basis points more than the European Central Bank's interest rate. It was 4.58 percent a month ago.

Cgnao, any chance you could shorten your sig (maybe have it point to another post with all the relevant info), as it's longer than many of your posts. I like to catch up on my Blackberry on the train home, and it's a lot to scroll through.

Ta.
cgnao
Mon Dec 17 21:15:35 UTC 2007
BLACK SWAN ALERT

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/95b09512-acd2-11...00779fd2ac.html

ECB steps up liquidity fight

By Ralph Atkins in Frankfurt, Gillian Tett in London and Krishna Guha in Washington

Published: December 17 2007 19:10 | Last updated: December 17 2007 19:10

Emergency help for financial markets entered new territory on Monday night as the European Central Bank announced it would on Tuesday offer unlimited funds at below market interest rates in a special operation to head off a year-end liquidity crisis.

The surprise move, which follows last week’s co-ordinated barrage of measures by the world’s central banks to increase market liquidity, suggests the ECB is still frustrated at the failure to ease market tensions.

The measure was reminiscent of the ECB’s operation on August 9, at the start of the global credit squeeze. But that was for overnight loans while the new offer is for two weeks.

Analysts warned that the measure risked increasing market volatility and saw the central bank breaking new ground in helping out the banking sector.

“This is basically Father Christmas to those who have access,” said Erik Nielsen, economist at Goldman Sachs. “They are bailing out people who have not really adjusted their balance sheets to the new reality.”
twatmangle
QUOTE (Gebbeth @ Dec 17 2007, 09:07 PM) *
Cgnao, any chance you could shorten your sig (maybe have it point to another post with all the relevant info), as it's longer than many of your posts. I like to catch up on my Blackberry on the train home, and it's a lot to scroll through.

Ta.


You can switch off all sigs in your settings. Makes the whole board look tidy. You can also change the number of posts per page view so you don't have to go forward and backwards so much.

Very useful for Blackberry and PDA use.
tinecu
OnlyMe has found a beauty:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=63919

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/mood...3165F44F7C54%7D



Moody's warns on ratings of some bond insurersMBIA, SCA may be downgraded, but Ambac affirmed by rating agencyBy Alistair Barr, MarketWatchLast update: 9:00 p.m. EST Dec. 14, 2007 SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Moody's Investors Service warned late Friday that AAA ratings of four leading bond insurers could be downgraded after the agency re-evaluated the companies' exposure to potential subprime mortgage losses. The AAA ratings of Financial Guaranty Insurance Company (FGIC) and XL Capital Assurance, a unit of Security Capital <SPAN class=LqQtGroup><SPAN class=quotedToolTip>(SCA:<SPAN class=quotedToolTipBox> security capital assurance com[/color] Last: 4.51[color="#009900"]+0.39+9.47%
3:57pm 12/17/20
Alistair Barr is a reporter for MarketWatch in San Francisco.


Knew this would come...negative outlook... ph34r.gif
grumpy-old-man
just heard Harriet Richmond the MD of JP Morgan talking about the 'possibility of unconventional fed action in the equity markets'

when you hear words like 'unconventional' you know we are headed for a whole lot of sh1t & they are fooked.
Ash4781
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3068094.ece

Mr King said this morning: "We're saying to the markets: 'Yes, we understand the deterioration in sentiment in the credit markets' ... and we're determined to make whatever steps are necessary to make sure there is no downturn in the world economy."

sad.gif
cgnao
QUOTE (Ash4781 @ Dec 18 2007, 07:58 PM) *
Mr King said this morning: "We're saying to the markets: 'Yes, we understand the deterioration in sentiment in the credit markets' ... and we're determined to make whatever steps are necessary to make sure there is no downturn in the world economy."


1) they'll hyperinflate rather than allow deflation
2) they'll try to fight tooth and nail against a rising gold price
3) the longer and harder they manage to suppress gold, the higher it will go when (not if) they lose the battle.
cgnao
This is the mark of the derivative beast, which will devastate the international monetary system and therefore your salary, savings, mortgage, investments, pension for years to come unless you take drastic defensive action NOW.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home
ACA Cedes Control to Regulator to Avert Delinquency
By Michael Shanahan

Dec. 27 (Bloomberg) -- ACA Capital Holdings Inc., the bond insurer that lost its investment-grade credit rating last week, agreed to give control to regulators to avert delinquency proceedings.

ACA Financial Guaranty Corp., a unit of ACA Capital, will seek approval from the Maryland Insurance Administration before pledging or assigning assets, paying dividends or entering into ``certain material transactions,'' the New York-based company said in a filing with the Securities & Exchange Commission yesterday. The regulator will hold off proceedings against the company, which is registered in Maryland.

``It's given them breathing room and a month to stave off bankruptcy,'' said Nigel Sillis, director of fixed income and currency research at Baring Asset Management in London. ``It still looks like bankruptcy is inevitable.''

Credit rating companies are reviewing MBIA Inc., Ambac Financial Group Inc. and other bond insurers on concern they don't have enough money to cover potential losses stemming from accelerating downgrades of the securities they guarantee, potentially endangering $2.4 trillion of bonds. S&P cut ACA's rating by 12 levels last week to CCC after the company posted a $1.04 billion third-quarter loss in November.

ACA said after the downgrade it had reached agreements that prevent the company having to immediately post collateral to back credit derivative agreements. The parties on the other side of the transactions agreed to waive the collateral requirements until Jan. 18 to give the company time to raise money and solve its financial problems.
tuggybear
If they pay off their bankruptcy of $1.04 billion third-quarter loss, does this mean ORIGINAL credit derivatives does not get scrutinized?
If this is the first and will become a benchmark, then .......
Goldfinger
QUOTE (cgnao @ Dec 27 2007, 11:25 AM) *
This is the mark of the derivative beast, which will devastate the international monetary system and therefore your salary, savings, mortgage, investments, pension for years to come unless you take drastic defensive action NOW.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.
...
``It still looks like bankruptcy is inevitable.''
...

I start to consider again quitting my pension schemes. I originally wanted to stay in them, also I thought I am young enough to wheather it. But maybe these monthly payments are just completely wasted money. Only thing stopping me is the thought that they will come up with a rescue plan for pensions in the end, i.e. I would have to pay for all these other failed pensions anyway.
Dubai
QUOTE (Goldfinger @ Dec 30 2007, 05:51 AM) *
I start to consider again quitting my pension schemes. I originally wanted to stay in them, also I thought I am young enough to wheather it. But maybe these monthly payments are just completely wasted money. Only thing stopping me is the thought that they will come up with a rescue plan for pensions in the end, i.e. I would have to pay for all these other failed pensions anyway.


Don't forget the Maxwell / Mirror pension scam. I don't believe anyone got a penny back then. I've dropped out of our scheme. The money required to maintain the benefits is rocketing up every year. I'd rather buy a flat and rent it out.... laugh.gif
barsark
Death and Taxes

In this world, only civil servants (the clue is in the name) will be rewarded with a decent pension.

The rest will be left to fight for all of their days, probably working and still being taxed.

How many pensions have been raped over the last 10 years? Ask yourself that.

ph34r.gif
sandster
I'm surprised there hasn't been anymore stories released over the past couple of days or has no-one been watching ph34r.gif
cgnao
QUOTE (sandster @ Dec 31 2007, 09:16 AM) *
I'm surprised there hasn't been anymore stories released over the past couple of days or has no-one been watching ph34r.gif


The derivative beast is alive and getting angrier.

The next wave of writedowns is approaching.

Central bank injections will not be able to postpone major defaults and bank runs for much longer, and are fuelling the flames of hyperinflation.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/privateEqui...31?rpc=401&
Wachovia may face new mortgage write-downs
Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:04pm EST
By Jonathan Keehner and Jonathan Stempel

NEW YORK (Reuters) - As more banks report write-downs tied to the global credit crunch, analysts say Wachovia Corp (WB.N: Quote, Profile, Research) may have losses lurking in an area that has garnered less investor attention.

The fourth-largest U.S. bank has in recent years aggressively tried to add market share by underwriting commercial mortgage-backed securities.

Demand for such securities has slid amid credit concerns, leaving dealers struggling to unload loans whose quality might be perceived as less sound than investors now demand.
Ash4781
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/busines...es-ranking.html

QUOTE
NEW YORK – Federal agency debt issuance increased by almost 20 percent to $820 billion in 2007 from $686.2 billion in 2006, Thomson Financial said Monday.

The issuance was driven by short-term notes and debt sold to replace securities that were called or retired.

Thomson includes debt maturing in 13 months or longer.

Margaret Kerins, agency analyst at RBS Greenwich Capital in Chicago, said callable issuance in 2007 represented about 56 percent of gross supply.

Short-dated issuance was also boosted by unusually heavy Federal Home Loan Bank system advances during the credit crisis, which cut off other funding alternatives for many banks. The FHLB financed those advances primarily with discount notes, which may be too short-term to be included in the Thomson numbers. But it also sharply increased its longer-term issuance.

FHLB advances jumped by more than $200 billion in 2007, compared with an average rise of $34 billion in the prior five years, Kerins wrote in an agency market outlook.

Analysts expect agency debt issuance could grow again in 2008, particularly if the portfolio growth caps on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are raised by their regulator.

The overseer, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, has indicated it could lift the limits it imposed by the end of February if the government-sponsored enterprises stay on track with timely reporting and remediation of accounting issues.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sell agency securities to fund their mortgage purchase activity. That growth has been curtailed by the portfolio ceilings set by OFHEO after accounting scandals earlier this decade at each agency.

The net supply growth should stay contained in 2008, with excess capital still restrained and market conditions volatile, Kerins said.

“While some of the increase in capital (at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) due to the recent issuance of preferred stock may support growth, we expect that the majority is needed to prepare for a deteriorating mortgage market and increasing credit exposures,” she said.

The agency secondary market had a volatile year, as yield premiums whipped around with swap spreads in response to the credit and liquidity crises.

Agency supply in itself exerted minimal pressure and was typically met with heavy overseas investment.

Overseas central bank holdings of U.S. agency and mortgage-backed debt in 2007 surged by more than $230 billion, or about 39 percent, to a record $832 billion in the week ended Dec. 26, according to the Federal Reserve.

Countries rich with petrodollars stepped up their purchases of U.S. agency debt, according to analysts and the issuers.

Among individual underwriters, JPMorgan held its spot as the top underwriter in 2007, with a 10.3 percent market share, according to Thomson.

UBS was in second place, and Barclays Capital, the investment banking arm of UK lender Barclays, was in third, according to Thomson. UBS moved up from seventh place last year and Barclays from 10th place.

(Editing by Dan Grebler)


Significant ?
cgnao
This is how the derivative beast will devastate the value of your share portfolio for many years to come.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7167409.stm
Plug is pulled on Blackstone deal

A company that private equity firm Blackstone was aiming to buy for $1.8bn has ended the deal on the basis that Blackstone could not raise the funds.

Blackstone and industrial giant General Electric (GE) agreed in March last year to buy PHH, a US provider of mortgages and fleet management services.

But PHH said the sale had been terminated because it could not be completed by 31 December as agreed.

In the wake of the credit crisis, funding deals has become tougher.

In recent years, firms such as Blackstone have used cheap credit from banks to fund a takeover spree that has pushed up stock markets and thrust the private equity sector into the spotlight.

But higher interest rates and record mortgage defaults in the US sub-prime sector means cheap credit is now harder to access.
cgnao
This is the mark of the derivative beast.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3120289.ece
January 2, 2008
Commerzbank removes three top credit bankers

Head of New York operations, NY credit chief depart and global credit boss in Frankfurt moves jobs amid sub-prime hit

Commerzbank has removed three senior executives believed to be connected to the group's sub-prime losses.

Hans Joachim Doepp, head of New York operations, and Juergen Boysen, responsible for Commerzbank’s credit business in New York, are departing. Michael Schmid, head of the bank's global credit business at its Frankfurt headquarters, has been given another position within the bank.

The bank spokesman declined to comment on the reasons for the departures. However it is thought that they are connected to the bank's sub-prime problems.

In the third quarter Commerzbank had to write off €291 million on its US sub-prime portfolio.

Commerzbank has €1.2 billion of sub-prime loans, two-thirds of which is in real estate financing unit Eurohypo, which Commerzbank acquired two years ago.

The credit crunch has already brought down two German banks - IKB, a private corporate lender and Sachsen LB, the east German public landesbank.
cgnao
This is the mark of the derivative beast.

http://newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Banking
Several banks are trying to shed their backlog of high-yield bonds and loans, selling them at discounts of as much as 10%.

Citigroup Inc., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley, and JPMorgan Chase & Co. are offering the discounts to help unload debt from last year’s record $438 billion of leveraged buyouts.

Losses from securities linked to subprime mortgages reduced demand for the higher-yielding assets. In all, leveraged buyouts declined to $101.9 billion in the second half of 2007 from $336.4 billion in the first half.

Now the banks are left with $161.9 billion of loans and $69.6 billion of bonds to distribute.
cgnao
Widespread worldwide bank runs highly likely.

Protect yourselves now or regret not doing so forever.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/bankingfinan...02?rpc=401&

Citigroup may write down $12 billion
Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:22pm GMT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Citigroup Inc (C.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the largest U.S. bank, may need to write down $12 billion of debt and boost reserves for bad loans by $1 billion as the global credit crunch deepens, a Sanford C. Bernstein & Co analyst said.
cgnao
What are you waiting for before you decide to protect yourselves?

Soon conditions will turn disorderly and it will become much more difficult and expensive to do so.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3111659.ece

Professor Shiller, co-founder of the respected S&P Case/Shiller house-price index, said: “American real estate values have already lost around $1 trillion [£503 billion]. That could easily increase threefold over the next few years. This is a much bigger issue than sub-prime. We are talking trillions of dollars’ worth of losses.”
Bloo Loo
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 2 2008, 05:36 PM) *
What are you waiting for before you decide to protect yourselves?

Soon conditions will turn disorderly and it will become much more difficult and expensive to do so.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3111659.ece

Professor Shiller, co-founder of the respected S&P Case/Shiller house-price index, said: "American real estate values have already lost around $1 trillion [£503 billion]. That could easily increase threefold over the next few years. This is a much bigger issue than sub-prime. We are talking trillions of dollars' worth of losses."


Deflation then
29929BlackTuesday
There's very little we can do cg.

Buy some beans? Buy gold? Come ON! A bar of gold'll do you no good - you have to sell it surely?

If you have cash then if it's in, say, gov bonds or a normal bank then that's safe is it not?

Do you suggest having it all in folding notes literally under one's mattress pikey-style?
cgnao
QUOTE (Bloo Loo @ Jan 2 2008, 06:39 PM) *
Deflation then


MUHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

29929BlackTuesday
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 2 2008, 05:42 PM) *
MUHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

(In a jealous huff) Oh answer 'his' post will you but not MINE eh?

Enough of the mwa-haaing and tell me what you mean by 'protect yourself'
cgnao
QUOTE (29929BlackTuesday @ Jan 2 2008, 06:47 PM) *
(In a jealous huff) Oh answer 'his' post will you but not MINE eh?

Enough of the mwa-haaing and tell me what you mean by 'protect yourself'


Buy gold. The real stuff. Take delivery and either hold it personally in a safe place (not a bank vault or equivalent) or in segregated allocated storage offshore.

If you are burning with the desire to keep a portion of your stash in paper currency, you should

1) get the hell out of GBP and USD ASAP
2) EITHER keep the cash at hand (not in any bank anywhere)
3) OR buy shortest term (no longer than three months) government bonds / treasury bills, preferably denominated CAD or CHF, and if possible take paper delivery.
cgnao
Very, very ugly.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=bond
NIBC CDO Investors Fight After Default, Moody's Says
By Jody Shenn

Jan. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Moody's Investors Service is reviewing a collateralized debt obligation managed by NIBC Holding NV as investors fight over how they will be repaid following a decision by some owners to accelerate the notes' maturity.

Moody's shifted its assessment on $974 million of the securities, originally assigned AAA ratings and deemed non- investment-grade since November, to ``on review with direction uncertain,'' the New York-based ratings company said in a statement today. Moody's also cut $34 million of top-rated securities to below investment grade.

The trustee for the Orion CDO 2006-2 Ltd. is seeking a court opinion on the terms to resolve ``differing views regarding the distribution'' of interest and principal, Moody's said, after the CDO's controlling class decided all notes should be immediately due following a so-called default event.

....

Because defaults ``seemed like unlikely events'' when the deals were put together, CDO contracts may be unclear about them, Brian James, a partner at New York-based structure-finance recruitment and consulting firm Link Global Solutions, said today in a telephone interview. The events typically occur only when a large amount of a CDO's collateral is downgraded.
sandster
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 2 2008, 08:57 AM) *
This is how the derivative beast will devastate the value of your share portfolio for many years to come.

This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7167409.stm
Plug is pulled on Blackstone deal

A company that private equity firm Blackstone was aiming to buy for $1.8bn has ended the deal on the basis that Blackstone could not raise the funds.

Blackstone and industrial giant General Electric (GE) agreed in March last year to buy PHH, a US provider of mortgages and fleet management services.

But PHH said the sale had been terminated because it could not be completed by 31 December as agreed.

In the wake of the credit crisis, funding deals has become tougher.

In recent years, firms such as Blackstone have used cheap credit from banks to fund a takeover spree that has pushed up stock markets and thrust the private equity sector into the spotlight.

But higher interest rates and record mortgage defaults in the US sub-prime sector means cheap credit is now harder to access.


Does that not highlight just how stupid the situation has become, mortgages and fleet management providers laugh.gif
cgnao
Exponentially increasing demand for cash. This is the mark of the derivative beast.

Protect yourselves.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi...0,2886982.story
Fed raises amounts in loan auctions

Associated Press
January 5, 2008

WASHINGTON—The Federal Reserve announced Friday that it is increasing the amount of money available to banks through the new auction process it created to ease the nation's severe credit squeeze. The Fed again pledged to continue the auctions "for as long as necessary."

The Fed said that it will increase the amount offered at each of the next two auctions from $20 billion to $30 billion, a 50 percent jump.
Ursus Helvetica
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 5 2008, 11:02 AM) *
The Fed again pledged to continue the auctions "for as long as necessary.

Roll the 'loans' over, and over, and over, and over, and over...
cgnao
Running out of cash, blame fraud and cut the amount customers can withdraw.

What are you waiting for before you decide to protect yourselves? Will worldwide bank runs convince you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/01/0..._in_city-2.html
Citibank limits ATM cash in city

BY KERRY BURKE and LARRY McSHANE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Thursday, January 3rd 2008, 4:00 AM

A jump in ATM fraud led Citibank to slash the maximum amount of cash available to customers from their accounts - a security move greeted warily Wednesday by its patrons.

The new cap on cash kicked out by the company's ATMs began in mid-December after what Citibank called "isolated fraudulent activity" around the city.

The bank, with 134 branches around town, would not say how many customers were affected or how much money was involved.

One Brooklyn woman said she went to her bank branch on Christmas Eve and was unable to take out her normal cash limit, so she called customer assistance.

"She told me customer accounts had been hacked into through cash machines around the city," the woman said.

"As a result, the bank had decided to slash how much customers could withdraw from their own accounts. They cut my amount in half.
Last Avenue
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 6 2008, 05:22 PM) *
Running out of cash, blame fraud and cut the amount customers can withdraw.

QUOTE
Any guy can tell you that sitting on more than two hundred dollars in twenties is not very comfortable. This limit should not affect most people.

This is an excuse I had not yet heard for introducing the cashless society. Personally I find cash makes a comfortable ar$e cushion, but gold is more supportive.


grumpy-old-man
QUOTE (sandster @ Jan 3 2008, 08:11 AM) *
Does that not highlight just how stupid the situation has become, mortgages and fleet management providers laugh.gif


yes, almost everyone sells almost everything, experience & specialism has been lost.

Greed & the dreaded bean counters tongue.gif win as usual.




ps - I hate bean counters btw. Anyone who runs their life with a spreadsheet is not to be trusted imo. wink.gif
cgnao
This is the mark of the derivative beast. Protect yourselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=bond
Banks May Need to Boost Reserves Against Losses, Moody's Says

Jan. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Banks may be required to set aside more capital to offset the risk of losses on collateralized debt obligations and other complex securities, according to Moody's Investors Service.

``The combination of financial innovation, opacity and leverage is generally explosive,'' analysts led by Pierre Cailleteau in London wrote in a report published today. ``More capital buffers will be needed or required by counterparties and regulators.''

Banks sold $469 billion of CDOs last year after a record $769 billion in 2006, according to JPMorgan Chase & Co. The falling value of the securities and other assets linked to U.S. subprime mortgages forced financial companies to write down more than $80 billion worldwide as defaults soared last year.

Banks may have to allocate more cash reserves to allow for greater fluctuation in the value of structured credit products, wrote Cailleteau, Moody's chief international economist. CDOs bundle together debt and other assets and use the income to pay investors.

Moody's, Standard & Poor's and Fitch Ratings have been criticized for giving investment-grade rankings to structured securities linked to subprime mortgages. The Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating whether they were ``unduly influenced'' by issuers and underwriters who paid for ratings, Chairman Christopher Cox said in September.
tinecu
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 7 2008, 10:05 AM) *
This is the mark of the derivative beast. Protect yourselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=bond
Banks May Need to Boost Reserves Against Losses, Moody's Says

Jan. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Banks may be required to set aside more capital to offset the risk of losses on collateralized debt obligations and other complex securities, according to Moody's Investors Service.

``The combination of financial innovation, opacity and leverage is generally explosive,'' analysts led by Pierre Cailleteau in London wrote in a report published today. ``More capital buffers will be needed or required by counterparties and regulators.''

Banks sold $469 billion of CDOs last year after a record $769 billion in 2006, according to JPMorgan Chase & Co. The falling value of the securities and other assets linked to U.S. subprime mortgages forced financial companies to write down more than $80 billion worldwide as defaults soared last year.

Banks may have to allocate more cash reserves to allow for greater fluctuation in the value of structured credit products, wrote Cailleteau, Moody's chief international economist. CDOs bundle together debt and other assets and use the income to pay investors.

Moody's, Standard & Poor's and Fitch Ratings have been criticized for giving investment-grade rankings to structured securities linked to subprime mortgages. The Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating whether they were ``unduly influenced'' by issuers and underwriters who paid for ratings, Chairman Christopher Cox said in September.


And there's more trouble for the bond insurers....MBIA...CDOs 'squared'

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/you...eisuretempo-hed




Bond backer may see its trouble grow exponentially
BY ANDREW LECKEY | Tribune Media Services columnist January 6, 2008You think your credit rating is important?

Try being the largest U.S. insurer of bonds and asset-backed securities after publicly acknowledging that it has $8.1 billion in exposure to the riskiest of collateralized debt obligations backed by subprime home loans.

Its good credit rating is everything to it. Nobody wants much to do with a troubled bond insurer when the nation's economy turns dicey.

Stock of MBIA Inc. declined sharply in 2007. Although the giant bond guarantor has international growth prospects, don't count on them if it drops the ball in its own country.

Moody's, Standard & Poor's and Fitch rating services have affirmed their AAA financial strength rating of MBIA, but also added an ominous "negative outlook." They'd previously assumed MBIA had been conservative in all business dealings.

Now MBIA is scurrying to raise another $1 billion in capital to avoid a one-notch downgrade to AA+ that would force it to reprice all of the bonds it insures. It had already obtained $1 billion from private-equity firm Warburg Pincus. Such hat-in-hand frenzy is unusual for a judicious firm.

--------

The under-pricing of risk is probably the worst mistake any insurer can make. ph34r.gif

Goldfinger
Another one bites the dust:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home
QUOTE
Victoria Finance SIV Debt Cut to Junk After Asset Values Tumble

By Neil Unmack

Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Victoria Finance Ltd., a $6 billion structured investment vehicle managed by New York-based Ceres Capital Partners LLC, had its investment-grade ratings cut 13 levels to junk after the value of its assets slumped.
...
The waiver expired yesterday and creditors may now push the SIV into enforcement, which could require it to liquidate assets, S&P said.
...
OnlyMe
Moody's, Standard & Poor's and Fitch rating services have affirmed their AAA financial strength rating of MBIA

LOL!
Goldfinger
QUOTE (OnlyMe @ Jan 8 2008, 11:41 AM) *
Moody's, Standard & Poor's and Fitch rating services have affirmed their AAA financial strength rating of MBIA

LOL!

As long as they rate it AAA, it IS AAA. If they rated it AA, it would plunge to junk. The problem with these agencies is, that it is THEM who move the markets. No objective observing/rating possible here. It's a little like quantum physics. You can't measure without influencing the system. Only, this is much deeper doo doo than quantum physics.
OnlyMe
QUOTE (Goldfinger @ Jan 8 2008, 01:55 PM) *
As long as they rate it AAA, it IS AAA. If they rated it AA, it would plunge to junk. The problem with these agencies is, that it is THEM who move the markets. No objective observing/rating possible here. It's a little like quantum physics. You can't measure without influencing the system. Only, this is much deeper doo doo than quantum physics.


True but then what are ratings for then? No don't answer that one.


http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2007/12/20...cdo-disclosure/

But while the ratings agencies were able to downgrade ACA, a less important insurer, they seem to be engaging in a “cross this line and you die…ok, this line and you die” Yosemite Sam-style game with MBIA and others.

“The current charade of pretending that the monoliners are under review to give them time to raise more capital to avoid such a downgrade is another case of rating agencies supporting a rotten business model,” notes economist Nouriel Roubini, in his blog. “The actual behavior of such monoliners has proven that they are not transparent, that they hold or insure a mass of skeletons and toxic waste securities and they have been dishonest in hiding from investors the toxic waste that they hold and insure.”

The CDO exposure is rated high-grade, but the steady pace of downgrades makes that aspect unimportant, Mr. Zerbe points out.

Mike Shedlock of Sitka Capital Management has written on his blog in the past that MBIA should have been downgraded by now, but this revelation sends him over the edge. “Now let’s see if the rating agencies react. Will they find yet another lame excuse to avoid a downgrade of MBIA? The question at hand is not whether MBIA is “AAA” or “AA” but whether or not MBIA is complete junk,” he writes. “Another question is, if MBIA can withhold information like this for so long, who else is doing it?”
drminky
Its times like these you feel glad you didn't opt for a traditional pension fund.. Much of these losses are going to be buried under the carpet for years and years and years, and then when people retire they wonder why they've had such lousy returns on their pension fund for the last 20 years.. ..and why their fund managers retire so much richer than they do.. rolleyes.gif


Ash4781
http://www.economicnews.ca/login.php?page=...nomic%20Reports

QUOTE
Pimco's Gross Warns Default Swaps Could Trigger Subprime-Like Losses (Update)

13:44 01/08 (CEP News) Montreal - Pimco's Bill Gross says there will be winners and losers when $500 billion in credit default swaps are triggered this year but the losers "in many cases won't be back for a rematch", contributing to a collapse of the "pyramid scheme" of leveraged finance.

The comments come in Gross' January 2008 Investment Outlook, titled Pyramids Crumbling, which he released Tuesday on Pimco's website.

Gross, who manages the world's biggest bond fund, calls for a U.S. recession in 2008 after $200-$400 billion in mortgage-related writedowns are compounded by $250 billion in credit default swap losses and prospective losses in commercial real estate and credit cards.

"You have a recipe for a contraction in credit leading to a recession," he wrote.

As he has for several months, Gross focuses on the unwinding of complex financial derivatives that he calls the 'shadow banking system' as the source of impending peril. In an email response for comment, Gross said speculator losses will clip the appetite for risk-spreading derivatives.

"The impact will be felt via a retreat in new issuance in the derivative-based shadow banking system, as defaults occur and one side of the levered CDS trade produces losers, the financial system as it exists today will stop making new loans much like the oldtime bank of Jimmy Stewart would stop making home loans," he wrote. "That in combination with increasing regulation will act to slow/reverse economic growth."

In his Investment Outlook, Gross likens the credit default swap market to the one that spurred foolish subprime lending practices and calls it "perhaps the most egregious offender" in the new lending system.

Credit default swaps are an instrument used to insure corporate bonds against default. Gross notes the CDS market is a zero-sum game but warns uneducated spectators will be on the losing side of the market, as they were with subprime CDOs.

"Of course, 'buyers of protection' will be on the other 'winning' side, but the point is that as capital gains and capital losses slosh from one side of the shadow system's boat to the other, casualties and shipwrecks are the inevitable consequence. Goldman Sachs wins? Fine, but the losers in many cases will not be back for a return match," Gross wrote.

Gross compares new financial market instruments to a pyramid scheme that will collapse and leave markets starving for credit.

"Market based, regulation-lite American style capitalism, seemingly so ascendant after the dot.com madness nearly a decade ago, has met its match with the subprimes and the poorly structured and supervised derivative conduits of today's markets," he wrote.

In similar fashion to the subprime CDO market and Canada's asset-backed commercial paper market, Gross said many of the losses will stem from "protection selling", perhaps as liquidity dries up or ratings downgrades trigger automatic selling.

Using the $45 trillion estimate of outstanding investment grade and junk bonds from the Bank for International Settlements, Gross estimates $250 billion in losses.

"If total investment grade and junk bond defaults approach historical norms of 1.25% in 2008 then $500 billion of these default contracts will be triggered resulting in losses of $250 billion or more to the 'protection selling' party once recoveries are inserted into the equation," he wrote, noting the economic contraction will result from a pullback in aggregate lending.

Gross was somewhat unclear about what will ultimately trigger the collapse, but RBC Capital Markets fixed income strategist T.J. Marta said a massive bankruptcy, such as the Tuesday's rumoured collapse of Countrywide Financial, could spark a chain reaction.

"What he's talking about is the cascading effect . We don't know when it will hit but it will be a mechanical-type explosion," he told CEP News.

Marta said a ratings downgrade of a U.S. bond insurer such as MBIA or Ambac could spark downgrades of insured bonds and lead to a fire sale. A downgrade could also force a major bond insurer into bankruptcy leading to fears of further defaults and dramatic declines in credit default swaps.

By Adam Button, abutton@economicnews.ca, edited by Nancy Girgis, ngirgis@economicnews.ca



Errol
Mortgage giant denies bankruptcy

Goldfinger
QUOTE (drminky @ Jan 8 2008, 12:27 PM) *
Its times like these you feel glad you didn't opt for a traditional pension fund.. Much of these losses are going to be buried under the carpet for years and years and years, and then when people retire they wonder why they've had such lousy returns on their pension fund for the last 20 years.. ..and why their fund managers retire so much richer than they do.. rolleyes.gif

See Tustain's paper Landfill #2.
cgnao
Notional value becomes real value when the loser in the derivative trade can't perform on the obligation.

The $500 trillion derivative mountain is shaking badly and will collapse. This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

What are you waiting before you decide to protect yourselves? What will be your excuse for failing to do so?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/08/business/bank.php
CIBC fires two executives as subprime exposure mounts
By Ian Austen
Published: January 8, 2008

OTTAWA: The Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce has fired two executives at its unit CIBC World Markets as it grapples with a $9.8 billion exposure to subprime mortgage debt, the largest among banks in Canada.

...

Last month, the Bank of Commerce said it faced additional write-downs of 2 billion Canadian dollars, or about $2 billion, related to its holdings in subprime mortgage debt in the United States. But many analysts expect that the subprime losses for the bank, which has previously announced 978 million Canadian dollars in write-offs, will eventually be much higher.

...

CIBC World Markets disclosed late last month that $3.5 billion of its subprime debt was insured by ACA Financial Guaranty. In December, subprime concerns caused the ratings agency Standard & Poors, to downgrade ACA's debt from investment grade to junk status. Its parent company, ACA Capital Holdings, is effectively being run by government insurance regulators in Maryland as it attempts to find new capital or a buyer.

A month ago, Shaw told analysts during a conference call that ACA, in retrospect, had not been a wise choice. "We overestimated the extent or value of the diversification we thought we had," he said on Dec. 6. "And we underestimated the severity of the security performance and the counterparty performance in a stressed market."
bearORbullENIGMA
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 8 2008, 10:21 PM) *
The $500 trillion derivative mountain is shaking badly and will collapse. This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

What are you waiting before you decide to protect yourselves? What will be your excuse for failing to do so?


I don't know...it's something about your overly-simplistic slogan like way of putting things that makes me instinctively distrust you.
FreeTrader
QUOTE (cgnao @ Jan 8 2008, 10:21 PM) *
Notional value becomes real value when the loser in the derivative trade can't perform on the obligation.

The $500 trillion derivative mountain is shaking badly and will collapse. This is 100% correct, guaranteed.

Er, no, that's 100% incorrect, guaranteed.

There's no sure-fire method of measuring systemic derivatives risk, but as a general rule when the loser in the derivative trade can't perform on the obligation then logically the counterparty is exposed to the in-the-money open market value of the contract.

At June 2007 the notional value of outstanding OTC derivatives as measured by the BIS was $516 trillion. That notional value is useful for measuring the size and growth of the OTC derivatives market, but it's a pretty meaningless figure in terms of actual risk exposure. It's called 'notional' because the amount doesn't really exist - it's just a value against which the obligations on the contract are computed against.

In June the BIS valued the gross credit risk (GCR) of all outstanding OTC contracts (i.e. the cost of replacing all open contracts at the prevailing market prices) at $11 trillion. That figure is down quite a bit from a few years ago when GCR was running at around 4.5% of notional - this was due to the low volatility and stability of interest rates and currency movements at the time (remember this was six months ago). It's likely that GCR has risen considerably since then, but I doubt it's more than $20 trillion.

Then you need to remember that this is gross credit risk. Counterparty netting arrangements probably reduce that gross value to 20% or less, so we're perhaps talking about $4 trillion or so.

Now, I'm not downplaying the danger of derivatives here, and Warren Buffett is quite right when he calls them 'financial weapons of mass destruction'. It's quite possible that cascading defaults on even a relatively minor derivatives failure could send violent shockwaves through the financial system, but we need to get away from this $500 trillion figure as some sort of indication of what losses might be sustained in the worst case scenario.

Let's keep it real. Things are bad enough as they stand at present without the added hyperbole.


Edit: Just for clarification: a default on a CDS can expose the protection giver to the notional value of the underlying. This post was directed at the idea that the oft-quoted $500 trillion of notional OTC derivatives contracts could become real if all counterparties failed. The CDS market is only a small part of the overall derivatives market.
BandWagon
QUOTE (FreeTrader @ Jan 9 2008, 12:32 AM) *
Er, no, that's 100% incorrect, guaranteed.

Edit: Just for clarification: a default on a CDS can expose the protection giver to the notional value of the underlying. This post was directed at the idea that the oft-quoted $500 trillion of notional OTC derivatives contracts could become real if all counterparties failed. The CDS market is only a small part of the overall derivatives market.


Indeed.

If you go back to the start if this thread it began when cgnao read a table that showed about 130 trillion of derivatives exposure. He got very excited and confused about the numbers, and thought they all referred to credit derivatives, when the vast bulk are related to interest rate swaps.

So you have 97 pages of nonsense on this thread prompted by his lack of understanding and misguided enthusiasm.
Forget any attempt to understand the difference between an IR swap and a CDS, or between a CDS and a cash CDO, let alone other synthetic products.

And counterparty risk is probably going to be one of the big stories of this year.
This would make for a very worthwhile discussion, but sadly not on this thread, which is just a mess of confusion and ignorance and stupidity.


Justice
FreeTrader

So are you saying that we can condence the $515tr down to something like $11tr or less ?

What about the profit that has been booked and used as colateral in other deals.

i don't think it is possible to calculate what the real cost will be if it unwinds but as a stab i would say 10% sounds about fair.

Gambling to buy something from someone that does own that something does sound mad when you throw in the money for the bet comes from virtual profit or borrowed money.




Noel
QUOTE (FreeTrader @ Jan 9 2008, 12:32 AM) *
Er, no, that's 100% incorrect, guaranteed.

There's no sure-fire method of measuring systemic derivatives risk, but as a general rule when the loser in the derivative trade can't perform on the obligation then logically the counterparty is exposed to the in-the-money open market value of the contract.

At June 2007 the notional value of outstanding OTC derivatives as measured by the BIS was $516 trillion. That notional value is useful for measuring the size and growth of the OTC derivatives market, but it's a pretty meaningless figure in terms of actual risk exposure. It's called 'notional' because the amount doesn't really exist - it's just a value against which the obligations on the contract are computed against.

In June the BIS valued the gross credit risk (GCR) of all outstanding OTC contracts (i.e. the cost of replacing all open contracts at the prevailing market prices) at $11 trillion. That figure is down quite a bit from a few years ago when GCR was running at around 4.5% of notional - this was due to the low volatility and stability of interest rates and currency movements at the time (remember this was six months ago). It's likely that GCR has risen considerably since then, but I doubt it's more than $20 trillion.

Then you need to remember that this is gross credit risk. Counterparty netting arrangements probably reduce that gross value to 20% or less, so we're perhaps talking about $4 trillion or so.

Now, I'm not downplaying the danger of derivatives here, and Warren Buffett is quite right when he calls them 'financial weapons of mass destruction'. It's quite possible that cascading defaults on even a relatively minor derivatives failure could send violent shockwaves through the financial system, but we need to get away from this $500 trillion figure as some sort of indication of what losses might be sustained in the worst case scenario.

Let's keep it real. Things are bad enough as they stand at present without the added hyperbole.


Edit: Just for clarification: a default on a CDS can expose the protection giver to the notional value of the underlying. This post was directed at the idea that the oft-quoted $500 trillion of notional OTC derivatives contracts could become real if all counterparties failed. The CDS market is only a small part of the overall derivatives market.


Just one small thing - the protection giver will be liable for notional - recovery rate (typically 40%). Surely you should be concerned with the outstanding notional as well the GCR?
Noel
QUOTE (Noel @ Jan 9 2008, 10:57 AM) *
Just one small thing - the protection giver will be liable for notional - recovery rate (typically 40%). Surely you should be concerned with the outstanding notional as well the GCR?



Table 19 has the numbers

http://www.bis.org/publ/qtrpdf/r_qa0712.pdf

Outstanding CDS notional ~43 billion dollars
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