article in the economist on friday - hi tech will need alu & paltinum
worth a punt?
Full Version: Aluminium & Plantinum
QUOTE(bdon @ May 14 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]637545[/snapback]
article in the economist on friday - hi tech will need alu & paltinum
worth a punt?
worth a punt?
yes, but how?
Aluminium: shares expensive with the Alcoa takeover, physical somewhat bulky. An Audi A2 or A8 could be a good buy in a few years time.
Platinum: Bushveld minors gone up a lot already, physical way over spot. ZKB ETF perhaps the only way to do it (and the only ETF / paper gold I personally would get into). Lapp plats only non-russian/south african miner, has gone up a fair bit and don't necessarily even have any platinum (unless they buy some Bushveld licences). Eurasia Mining possibly only relatively cheap option, but Russian risk.
Any other ideas?
QUOTE(LargelyIgnorant @ May 15 2007, 10:34 PM) [snapback]638838[/snapback]
yes, but how?
Aluminium: shares expensive with the Alcoa takeover, physical somewhat bulky. An Audi A2 or A8 could be a good buy in a few years time.
Platinum: Bushveld minors gone up a lot already, physical way over spot. ZKB ETF perhaps the only way to do it (and the only ETF / paper gold I personally would get into). Lapp plats only non-russian/south african miner, has gone up a fair bit and don't necessarily even have any platinum (unless they buy some Bushveld licences). Eurasia Mining possibly only relatively cheap option, but Russian risk.
Any other ideas?
Aluminium: shares expensive with the Alcoa takeover, physical somewhat bulky. An Audi A2 or A8 could be a good buy in a few years time.
Platinum: Bushveld minors gone up a lot already, physical way over spot. ZKB ETF perhaps the only way to do it (and the only ETF / paper gold I personally would get into). Lapp plats only non-russian/south african miner, has gone up a fair bit and don't necessarily even have any platinum (unless they buy some Bushveld licences). Eurasia Mining possibly only relatively cheap option, but Russian risk.
Any other ideas?
http://www.platinum.matthey.com/commercial...s_services.html - seems the closest other than ETFs... platinum is very rare - would love to get my hands on some :-)
Check this out: https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=1379
The Kitco Platinum forum is a good source of info on Pt: https://www.kitcomm.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9
QUOTE
One time a while ago for the heck of it (and hoping for quick cash) i went to junkyards and scrounged over a hundred old cats and refined them. I ended up with a decent chunk of pgm's but the nickle gauze gaskets inside them were almost as valuable as the pgm's at the time once the processing chems, cost to purchase the cats, and WORK was calculated into the equasion.
Ended up with about 1.8oz of Pt, roughly 3 oz of pd and about 1/10 ounce Rh plus a couple hundred pounds of high temp moly steel and about 90 pounds of pure nickel. It was ironic that the steel and nickel were bought without question, but i coulden't find a single local jeweler or scrap dealer who would buy the pgms at anywhere near what they were worth.
The hardest part was getting the pgm's in a recognizably metallic form. As fate would have it the beautiful crystals of metal you get from slow electrolysis of pgm solutions went for significantly more than the metals were worth at the time when sold as a collectable novelty element specimines. The rhodium was best sold as dry rhodium chloride.
For anyone considdering doing this it's very messy, hard, dirty, hazardous, and time consuming work. Takes about 3 weeks of solid work before you even see any pm's. If pt or pd goes to about 2K an ounce I MIGHT considder doing it again, but for any less forget it.
Ended up with about 1.8oz of Pt, roughly 3 oz of pd and about 1/10 ounce Rh plus a couple hundred pounds of high temp moly steel and about 90 pounds of pure nickel. It was ironic that the steel and nickel were bought without question, but i coulden't find a single local jeweler or scrap dealer who would buy the pgms at anywhere near what they were worth.
The hardest part was getting the pgm's in a recognizably metallic form. As fate would have it the beautiful crystals of metal you get from slow electrolysis of pgm solutions went for significantly more than the metals were worth at the time when sold as a collectable novelty element specimines. The rhodium was best sold as dry rhodium chloride.
For anyone considdering doing this it's very messy, hard, dirty, hazardous, and time consuming work. Takes about 3 weeks of solid work before you even see any pm's. If pt or pd goes to about 2K an ounce I MIGHT considder doing it again, but for any less forget it.
The Kitco Platinum forum is a good source of info on Pt: https://www.kitcomm.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9
QUOTE(LargelyIgnorant @ May 15 2007, 10:34 PM) [snapback]638838[/snapback]
yes, but how?
Aluminium: shares expensive with the Alcoa takeover, physical somewhat bulky. An Audi A2 or A8 could be a good buy in a few years time.
Platinum: Bushveld minors gone up a lot already, physical way over spot. ZKB ETF perhaps the only way to do it (and the only ETF / paper gold I personally would get into). Lapp plats only non-russian/south african miner, has gone up a fair bit and don't necessarily even have any platinum (unless they buy some Bushveld licences). Eurasia Mining possibly only relatively cheap option, but Russian risk.
Any other ideas?
Aluminium: shares expensive with the Alcoa takeover, physical somewhat bulky. An Audi A2 or A8 could be a good buy in a few years time.
Platinum: Bushveld minors gone up a lot already, physical way over spot. ZKB ETF perhaps the only way to do it (and the only ETF / paper gold I personally would get into). Lapp plats only non-russian/south african miner, has gone up a fair bit and don't necessarily even have any platinum (unless they buy some Bushveld licences). Eurasia Mining possibly only relatively cheap option, but Russian risk.
Any other ideas?
You can spreadbet on the price of platinum on Deal4Free. The minimum bet would be equivalent to buying £13,300 worth of the metal though, so not for the faint hearted.
for anyone interested in investing in aluminium, i real a paper on a massive hydro dam that is going to be build/finished soon in Iceland. the electricity from that will be used to make aluminium
one of the largest costs of making aluminium is electricity, and the Icelandic site is meant to produce a very large percentage of the worlds aluminium.
if i where thinking of investing in aluminium id be looking at that project carefully, find out if the government subsidised the project, what the cost of the electricity will be, and the amount that is predicted to be produced per year
from that, you can work out if this will drag down costs. or if it costs more than a conventional aluminium plant, then it mean there will be higher future demand so prices might go up
one of the largest costs of making aluminium is electricity, and the Icelandic site is meant to produce a very large percentage of the worlds aluminium.
if i where thinking of investing in aluminium id be looking at that project carefully, find out if the government subsidised the project, what the cost of the electricity will be, and the amount that is predicted to be produced per year
from that, you can work out if this will drag down costs. or if it costs more than a conventional aluminium plant, then it mean there will be higher future demand so prices might go up
The only thing I can say for certain about aluminium is that there is a definite lower limit to its price. One major one being the cost of energy, it is energy intensive so if energy goes up aluminium goes up. Secondly, if its price drops enough, car manufacturers will gladly switch to aluminium over steel so that puts a lower bound on its price too
If I where a rich billionaire, or an investment ******, id buy 10 year futures in a lot of aluminium, and shares in aluminium produces ect
Then lobby government to put a strict limit on the mass of all new cars for global warming co2 reasons. I find the whole global warming thing ****** but it is in politics and is a “hot” topic with politicians wanting to be “grren”. So I don’t think you would have too hard a time
This will increase demand for aluminium massively, pushing the price up greatly in a short period of time.
= legal manipulation of the market for high profits
If I where a rich billionaire, or an investment ******, id buy 10 year futures in a lot of aluminium, and shares in aluminium produces ect
Then lobby government to put a strict limit on the mass of all new cars for global warming co2 reasons. I find the whole global warming thing ****** but it is in politics and is a “hot” topic with politicians wanting to be “grren”. So I don’t think you would have too hard a time
This will increase demand for aluminium massively, pushing the price up greatly in a short period of time.
= legal manipulation of the market for high profits
QUOTE(bdon @ May 14 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]637545[/snapback]
article in the economist on friday - hi tech will need alu & paltinum
worth a punt?
worth a punt?
You could try using ETC's ( Exchange Traded Commodities ) , I've just been reading up on them and about to put some of our club money into a couple of them.
There are two types , one lot tracks DJ AIG sub indexes and physical prices , and the other lot track a group of commodities ie Agri' or precious metals. They trade just like shares apparently and are free of duty .
It's all priced in dollars so remember to convert
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/p...productlist.htm
Platinum.
Physical prices at the bottom of the list.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/p...prices/ETCs.htm
Dames
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