For those of you wanting to invest in undervalued (mainly repossesed) Berlin property without the hassle of direct investment, a property company is now established and has already aquired several properties.
There is emphasis on property near the airport which some of you will know is being massively expanded and the other Berlin airports being closed as a result.

Also the surrounding hinterland known as Brandenburgh is being targetted. Decent appartments are being aquired for under 19000 euros.

I know some of you are keen on getting a stake in this under valued sleeping giant.

If you are interested please reply on this thread.

Having invested directly in German property myself I soon discovered there is a lot of hassle involved and many pitfalls. This company removes all the hassle at a stroke. The key director is incentivised fairly with the aim of maximising returns.

I have nothing to declare here in terms of my own gain, this is merely a freindly tip. I aim to invest myself once I have some spare cash - and I can talk my wife into parting with yet more dosh

Sorry, hit the wrong button.
I am interested Dog Box as I do want to invest in Germany without the hassle. I was considering Travera which you have mentioned before, but I haven't taken it any further yet

Hi Dogbox.

I'd be interested and am heading over in 2 weeks to have a good sniff around. Any advice would be appreciated. Looking at apartment blocks mainly but am open to any ideas on alternative investments.

Cheers

Hopefuly you will recieve some details via PM.

Hi Dogbox,
Can you PM me please?
Thanks.

Hi, I am also interested. Please can you send me details.
thanks

Fifi

Hi

Also interested here, please PM me details.

thanks,

could you send me some details..... Its an option ;p

Hi, I have sent everybody an email who said they were interested. Please let me know if you did not get it.

Some interesting links worth checking:
http://www.viviun.com/AD-66623/
http://www.viviun.com/AD-67688/

These types of REIT funds are all very well but if you cant leverage your investment with a mortgage you would probably get a better return from stocks & shares over the long term.

For all those that have received the prospectus.

I am not sure how comfortable I would be with somebody else having control over my money in such an unregulated way. What is to stop him running off with it or the management deciding to leave the company and no longer manage the investments?

Compare this with a ready to made investment in one apartment that you own your selves.

Nothing, but that is not going to happen. I understand the concern, but equally, people invest in all sorts of companies through regulated IPOs, only for the management to squander away the money. How many of the highly regulated AIM IPOs of 2006 actuall trade at a profit today? If I ran away with the money, that would make me a fugitive, whether or not the investment is regulated.



There are many risks and issues associated with direct ownership:

• choice of property: you need to know the market very well to chose the right property in Germany (as in any place). There is a lot of rubbish being flogged in Germany, especially to foreign investors
• Entry price. In a market that does not move as fast as the UK market used to, a low entry price is critical. Again, this is generally not available for foreign investors, to whom agents will try to sell the less attractively priced properties
• the risk is much more concentrated if one owns only one or a few properties. If something happens with that property (tenants not paying, long vacancy, high repairs), it can hit the owner badly. In a vahicle like BPI, the risk is spread across the portfolio
• Acess to auction properties. The procedures to by out of reposessions at auction are opaque in Germany and virtually inaccessible to foreigners
• Direct ownership means you need to deal directly with the freehold association, German authorities and other parties, who often do not speak any English. What do you do with a letter in German from the tax authorities? Engaging local advisors to handle this for just one or two properties can be very expensive. In a vehicle like BPI, these costs are spread.
• Direct ownership raises tax issues. German income tax is payable on the rental income and you will have to file a tax return in Germany and pay German capital gains tax upon disposal. BPI is specifically designed to minimise German tax and insulate investors from German tax liability. If the portfolio is later disposed of as a whole, there will be no German capital gains tax or stamp duty to pay

I understand some people prefer to hold a direct "tangible" investment in property. Each to their own way. BPI offers a hassle free way to invest in German property without any direct exposure to German tax and other administrative issues, and it allows access to undervalued properties in the repossessions sector, where Steffen Tietz has an inside track to the Banks. You will just not get that as an outsider and you will always pay a premium. Somebody was saying in the German property thread that yields are down to 6% in Berlin. I do not buy anything below 8% and 10% is still available if one looks hard.

So what regulations do you comply with FSA or a German equivalent?

I think you have to be a mug to sign up to some guy on the internet.

Whats the company's website?

The company is a private company, so it is not FSA regulated or regulated by the German financial authorities. This is perfectly normal for a private company. The fact that a company is not FSA regulated does not mean that it is above the law. The directors are accountable and misappropriating the assets would be a criminal action.



I am not some guy on the Internet. I am well known among HPC members and many know me personally. My name appears in the information memorandum. I am happy to meet anyone who is interested.

Those that come in here criticising have misunderstood what BPI is about. It is a private company set up by friends and acquaintances and additional investors come in by invitation and recommendation based on personal trust. This is not a public offer for investment and it is not an invitation addressed to the general public. If you look at the OP's post, he invites people to make personal contact if they are interested. So if you are not comfortable joining a private company on that basis, that's fine, but please stop posting that this is all a scam and risky because it is not regulated.

I am interested.

I have sent you an email to your HPC registered email address (couldn't PM you)

Hi Bubble Pricker,
I am also interested. Please can you send me details.

Whopper

Maybe I was being a bit too critical but you do get some annoying people trying to sell their companies on such forums, such as poor investments in overhyped Bulgarian resorts.

To be honest i do agree that Berlin is a good investment over the long term (i.e 10years plus) and if you are able to negotiate 8% to 10% yields then that is good.

So how does BPI work then? Can you raise finance to leverage the 'pooled' investments? My point is that unless you can do this then there is little point in investing in property funds over equites as the long term (15years plus) returns on equities far outstrips property, unless you are borrowingfrom a bank and putting down a nominal deposit.

Yes, BPI can raise bank loans. German banks will usually lend up to 60% LTV on a non-recourse basis (i.e. the individual investors have no personal liability). As it is structured as a private company, it's the company that gets the loan secured on the properties. It is intended that all portfolio properties will be leveraged in this way.

As for the long term returns, it is true that the stock market, in the very long term, outperforms property, However, there is an issue of timing. Personally, I do not think the stock markets will do very well over the next few years, as valuations are based on huge earnings growth over the past years, which in my view is not sustainable. German property on the other hand appears undervalued and could provide good returns over the next 5-10 years.

Whopperl, I have emailed you at your address you used to register here at HPC.

What is the longer term plan. You are looking at raising 1 million euros now. Lets say that is leveraged 1.6 million. Where do you aim to go before listing the shares. As a management team besides from being both German and having bought a 3 properties combined where is your experience lay in this kind of investment structure. If I had to invest and depart with my money I would like to know a bit more about both your investment and professional back grounds.

Hi, I would be interested in hearing about this as I have already invested and looking for more options in Berlin.
Could you email me the information? Thanks.

Can you please email me details.

Thanks

Me ditto please. Thanks in advance.

Hi,

Could you also email me the details as well. This is my first post

Could you email me the details, thanks.

I'm interested Dogbox. Can you please forward me some information.

Thanks

Anyone had an email from Dogbox?

Dogbox can't email you as PM is dissabled on this forum. However the person to ask is Bubblepricker who has created this Berlin Investment scheme. As a moderator he has been able to send people details to their registered email address.

Ok, thanks, will have to wait for Bubblepricker to contact me.

Sorry about the delay, Bubble Pricker is away on holiday. Back the end of this week.

I will email later today. I have not got my password for the admin access handy right now (which I need to see the email addresses), so I will send from home.

Please make sure you check your email you used to register on HPC.

I have emailed everyone.

Sorry, but the deadline to come in on the original terms ends tomorrow. I will need your commitment by then.

If you are not comfortable with the rush, there will be a second round financing over the next few months, but it will be at a higher price.

Equally sorry old son but in the event of me having any interest whatsoever in what I have been sent, it has just evaporated with your last statements.
I advise you all to tread extremely carefully with this - you are all grown ups and will do what you wish to do but these are classic scare statements to make erstwhile investors scared they are missing the boat.
My alarm bells are ringing and in the words of the Dragons "I'm out"
I hope I'm wrong for the sakes of all those who have donated. I'll let this one pass me by thanks.

Yes, except Lewis, the date of 20 April was long ago announced. I hear what you say about scare tactics, but equally, there needs to be a cut off date, otherwise people will never make a decision. You should also read my previous responses in this thread to scam accusations. Frankly, I am getting tired of people coming in here, not having read the documents and not having understood what this is about and making fraud accusations.

This is not a public offering, it is a company set up by friends and acquaintances and referrals. This particular thread was an opportunity for contacts of dogbox to come in on the same terms as the founder investors who invested in December last year. That's a very advantageous offer, because the risk taken by those in December was greated than that today, as now the company is set up and the initial funds are fully invested.

There have been many more enquiries than I expected, and in a way, this has now gone beyond the scope of the initial intention of letting a few more people in on the original terms. In fact, I am not really comfortable any more to let any more people in at the last minute who I do not know personally.

So, to avoid any further accusations of scare tactics, this offer is now closed. Sorry to those I only emailed the information yesterday. I was on holiday until earlier in the week. I will email you again with details of the next fundraising later in the year, when they are available. This will be at a slightly higher price, but then again, it will also be based on a new information memorandum and the fact that there is an existing portfolio, so less risk - higher price, perfectly normal.

I see that www.berlin-capital.com are offering a new fund on their website. I got the prospectus and it all looks really proffesional. Does anyone have any views on this and if it is a good investment? They talk about a 20% target IRR.
Any thoughts anyone?

can you notify me of the next fundraising later in the year with details
please
regards grommet