Its difficult to get a handle on the fast changing dense world of foreign real estate.

Here is an attempt to get a handle on the value Morocco offers.


GRAN FOLIES MALLORCA

http://www.foxtons.co.uk/spain/cala-llamp-...es-INCA0232684/

£944189
294m2
3 bed penthouse
Sea view
No golf
No beach
No sports or leisure facilities of note
No mega marina
No on site hotles



SAIDIA MOROCCO - LE JARDIN DE FLEUR BEACH AND GOLF

£253752
437 m2
3 bed penthouse
Sea view
3 18 hole golf courses on site
6km sandy beach in the resort
Vast sporting and leisure facilities
Cutting edge 840 berth marina
11 on - site 5 * hotels - bringing 'eyes on sight'


So which of these 2 will produce the most rent? I would say that return on capital for Saidia will be much higher and the season will be year round in view of the pull of the vast level of leisure facilities (many of which dont rely on weather).

i think you are just comparing apples with oranges here - not really a worthwhile comparison

you would be better off doing the same sort of comparison for the various developments within Morocco - or perhaps countries at similar stages in development like Morocco with Egypt or Turkey

I disagree Nix.

The attraction of Spain has always been close proximity to the UK. Moroccos North coast is virtually the same flight time.
When I went to Turkey the flight took over 4 hours. Egypt is a lot further.

These Plan Azure resorts offer not only closeness but an immenses array of onsite high end facilities such as massive marinas, championship golf courseS and sports and leisure facilties on a breathtaking scale AND you get many onsite 5* hotels to bring in eyes to site.

Again I dont see dozens of individual premiership footballers investing in single sites in Turkey or Egypt - there is just no comparison.
We can dismiss the footballers as muppets or we can recognise they have very expensive advisers.

so what exactly are you trying to prove with your comparison?
do you think that a 3Bed Penthouse in Saidia should be worth £1m as its 50% bigger and offers more facilities than the one in Spain?

Im afraid to inform you that property prices overseas are not dictated by flying time from the UK - in my opinion a property in the massive Saidia development is completely incomparable with an exclusive property in Mallorca

Also the prem footballers thing is nothing more than a marketing ploy to entice UK buyers

I remember reading an article in the late 80s about Maradonna, who was playing for Napoli in the Italian Serie A. He had a garage full of top of the range sports cars of every big name Italian manufacturer, Ferrari, Lamborghini the lot. They were all gifts from the companies purely so they could say "as driven by Maradonna" He liked his Ferrari best, I seem to remember.

I would like to see a comparison of prices between Tunisia and Morocco. There seems to be little for sale in Tunisia but i think the comparisons are more aligned than between spain and morocco.

1. 3 hr flight times
2. North African med coast
3. Muslim state

does anyone know what the property prices are like in Tunisia?

i dont know much about Tunisia - but i found this:

http://www.homesgofast.com/property_for_sa...22/505-720-167/

Nothing to prove, just I know a lot of potential investors read this forum so might me interested in a rough and ready comparison.
Remember this is about the investment case alone.

Some people misread Morocco. Take a look at many small exclusive British tourist operators into Morocco such as

http://www.fleewinter.com

Morocco is'nt just another Tunisia or Bulgaria, its very much a destination for the middle to upper market. Once the big luxury resorts open for business this will offer people greater security and modernity than currently. Add in the large sandy beaches, the very significant marina's and multiple onsite golf proposition and I think you can make a good investment case.


People think Spain is the be all and end all, and that Morocco will never develop in a meaningful way. I think this is shortsighted.

As Ive said I holiday in the Balerics often but the beaches are'nt that great and oceanfront golf and beach resorts with very large marina's are hard to come by unless you have a few million spare.

You dont need to convince me about Morocco as I already believe Morocco is currently a good bet for investment - so at least we agree on that!

I just dont see the point of your comparison of the mega resort in Saidia with a boutique development in Mallorca thats all

Have you compared the price of property in Saidia with other beach or golf developments in Morocco ?

I have been privvy to what Prem footballers are buying on that complex, and the footballers buying arent just the ones representing NEO, there are a lot more buying there than you realise.

If it was a marketing ploy, surely they ALL would be the 'face' of the company not just Terry, Ferdinand and the Nevilles. There are at least another 5/6 players who have bought who are world famous too.

Rumpola, in my opinion it is a marketing ploy. NEO are an agent and have signed up a number of high profile footballers who, in turn, benefit from further sales. The other unnamed footballers may choose to invest but don't necessarily want to be doing it publicly, especially if there is no financial gain in doing so.

Going back to the comparison, I believe, in the long run, rents and value are better in Morocco (IF it all goes to plan) but in the short to medium term, rent may not be that good and value is very hard to get a handle on. For example, prices of golf villas on LJDF have not moved in over 9 months, when I first looked.

I dont think the values will increase much until the site is being used, but once the 30000 or so people per week start experiencing the place values should increase quickly.
Significant appreciation may occur sooner once people can see the properties, golf greens, marina etc.

Having said that I only paid £168k and Im confident I could advertise it now and attain £210k - not a bad return on £32000 capital in 9 months!

I saw portugese development offered in the Mail. Town houses were over £250k and thats 20 MINUTES INLAND, so no beach or marina, only one hotel on site, a handful of shops and 1 ok golf course and just average sports facilities and much damper / grimmer in winter.

Sean, I can see your point, and obviously there is a modicum of a marketing ploy at hand here, but is it not feasible for these young multi-millionaires to have been advised by their own investment brokers to invest in this site?

Also with the next World Cup being in South Africa, and England needing a training camp before the tournament starts, they may be purchasing here, as the England team may be planning on using this site, instead of the usual La Manga? Admittedly, I am probably totally wrong here, but it is a possibility surely?

Top football players often get free properties within a development - it's a good marketing tool. I know for a fact that John Terry has received several free properties in various developments.

I agree that the Saidia investment will be better in 10 years from now and will produce a better rent/price ratio.

Dogbox, you clearly got a good price there (relative to the one that I pulled out of). Mine was around £240k in June last year and there has been no price changes since on the golf villas. Did you get an earlier price or did you negotiate?

On the 2 resort comparison, it's a bit like comparing an exciting AIM stock with a dull FTSE100 stock. The exciting one might do a lot better, but it might not. For example, my boring William Hill shares have done a lot better than the exciting new gaming companies!

Having said that I only paid £168k and Im confident I could advertise it now and attain £210k - not a bad return on £32000 capital in 9 months!

Reality check needed here Dogbox. As Sean said, prices on the golf villas haven't moved in 9 months. In fact, the villas that have come back on have been offered at the same price, with a cashback. Whilst undoubtedly a popular buy -all sold out before the earth's been turned and any villas that do come up are quickly resold - there hasn't exactly been any price inflation, certainly not in the order of 33% per annum!

Ive noticed the more expensive units comming back to market. Im confident I would get more than I paid - in fact Im certain, its on a reasonable sized corner plot so less likely to get shaded out and its the single story design which is the model that proved most popular. I got in very early at a very low price.

It wont be until the resort is built that values will begin putting on serious growth.
Once people experience the golf / beach / massive marina / shopping / facilities combination they will find it a hard act to follow. Thats the point when the masses will start comparing with the Spannish resorts they previously experienced.


There are plenty of Arabs and N Africans with a lot of money who will be drawn by the marinas. I suspect they will excert considerable price action. There is a short supply of modern marinas in the Med. This is perhaps the key differentiator - there are loads of golf resorts out there but few that can boast massive marinas and beach.

VVT8: As Sean and FWS say, prices are approx. same as 9 months ago. FWS and Dogbox, as I understand it, reserved / bought in back in March when prices were lower. Both would likely walk away with a nice enough profit if they sold up now, but would have done better still had they invested the same amount in one or two of the more successful smaller developments near tangier (suh as PBGR, Mirador, Tanja and Playa Vista.) Not knocking you here guys as you bought in before me and therefore have more equity. I've also noticed that Tanja and PBGR are catching up with Saidia in terms of prices, but i don't think that can continue much further due to these developments having climate and facilites less geared to 12 month rentals, no to forget that Northern coast of Morocco is becoming one long strip of resorts (less exclusive than Saidia.)

On footballers investing: I imagine it'll be some time before we know the score here, if we ever do. I suspect the three promoting things (Terry, Ferdinand and Neveille) will have bought in at very attractive prices. The other footballers are probably paying full whack - they are probably more than happy to do so to be in a plot with good security that is exclusively for players. Ofcourse, its always possible that the named three will be doing better than I sugested by having a stake in NEO offering.

Comparing value: I don't find these comparisons particularly useful, but they do show how much more Saidia offers in the way of facilities despite being a fraction of the price. I suspect that's DogBox's point. I don't think anyone expects Saidia to become more desirbale, as reflected by property values, than location it was compared to.

[Unfortunately I didn't buy in March I wish I had, but didn't hear about the development until May so I bought on the second phase which was then nearly half sold. Personally, I don't think there's been any growth since then. I like Saidia and think it will be great for holidays and renting out, so I'm not too bothered about lack of growth, but I wish I'd bought in one of the smaller developments as an investment, because they are certainly doing much better.

A lot of criminal money is pouring into the good Moroccan resorts, as the EU tightens its grip on money laundering.

Its so hard for an African diplomat to buy in London these days - too many questions as to where the money came from

I am told a large group of burly Russians were seen on the Port Lixus site

I live in Tunisia moved here 6 months ago from Norwich.

Unfortunately they have the same madness here as they did back home if your looking for a med alternative of a good standard your looking at Hammamet/Tunis/Sousse/Djerba suburbs which is well over 2000 dollars a meter and is actually more expensive than morocco on average.

I was looking at land to build in Gammarth as the best option here is to build most of the time as some of the design/quality of houses can be poor (also Tunisians love to build a house that is 90% of the land ie no garden). I was shocked to find the bext locations are priced at over 1200 dinars a meter nearly 600 pounds for the land sometimes not near utilities etc so your looking at well over 500,000 euros of a good villa which though cheap compared to spain (at the moment) its not really comparible in terms of services/roads/banking etc etc.

I love Tunisia and the wife is from here so I will be buying but not at those prices!

Is that supposed to make us want to buy there?