Hi chaps,

I would like to get your opinion on the condo hotel suites for sale from Property Borders
on the Port Lixus resort in Larache Morocco.

The price seems quite good for a hotel suite, Property Borders quoting a 15% on the first 25 units discount which brings the price down to approx £75,390 and I understand there will be a rental return.

I have been told the villas prices are starting at around the 500.000 Euro mark.

Your advice is welcomed.

I discounted this one in December but Im having second thoughts. Hotel / Condo style investing is big in the US and Im confident will catch on over here.

Do you know what the m2 is?
A similar scheme are showing 1 bedrooms of 50.2 m2 at £79500 in Portimao, Algarve Portugal. This one is not on the beach though, its a good 10 minute walk.

If the P Lixus rooms are this size or bigger, the fact its right on a beach in a very up market resort makes the price tag look very attractive. Mmmmmm

This looks very good

5 star luxury
rental returns
plan azur
beachfront ocean views
2 golf courses
close to a local town with a medina

I would like to get more info on the leasehold status of the condo hotel on port lixus larache
i think its going to be 99 year lease

I have been told by my agent only 9 units left

I have done some research into thes over the past couple of days since learning of Neo, it looks very promising.

Does anyone have any observations about it in comparison to a LJDF offering on Saidia. Do you think that it is investors that are buying it up with a view to flipping?

I have a worry that Saidia will be very remote and thes is something that has worried me from the outset.

Apologies for my English, I am not so good when writing it.

What is your definition of "investors"? Of course they are buying in order to flip.

Ive today reserved one of these condo's.

This is my second investment in Morocco, and Im confident this is another good find.

I called a few agents in Tenerife (over 1 hour further away than P Lixus) and asked what price for an ocean - front (right on the ocean with unobscured views and no road in front) studio on a 5 star golf resort and was told prices start around 350000 euros.

£75000 seems very reasonable.

Agents were of the opinion that front line un obscured property on 5 star golf resorts is a rare commodity.

My definition of investor is someone who commits capital for financial gain. This does not necessarily mean just flipping...

Dogbox, I like the looks of this also and I think it bodes well for the Lixus resort. Does anyone have a link to the Mail on Sunday article; I didn't get that paper yesterday.

Dogbox
The similar thing in Portugal is not too far from the Priai da Rocha beach but looking at the site in Morocco it is nowhere near as close to the beach.
My brother invested in the Portimao marina site (he has a mooring close by) and there were a couple of issues.
When he sold the property the hotel had the first say on it and at their price and whenever he went it cost a fortune even though there were discounts for the stay.
The way it worked was they were charged for their stay and that charge came off the revenue they were receiving from his hotel room.
It didn't really work for him so he sold and didn't make a penny but he was there for less than 2 years. He has bought a house that suits him much better.
Do you know what the charges will be here and how they will charge you for your stay?
It looks interesting on a great site.
I wish I was as brave as you.

God just when I thought no one was talking about Port Lixus you guys go mad.

as far as I know you can sell when you like.

I also understand you get a lot of birds in the area and I dont mean the type you going looking for in a club.
my agent has told me only 5 units left at the discounted rate.

Thanks for the pointers.

In the end getting early like this holds risk in that we dont know exactly what we are getting - thats the nature of the beast. I could undertake lots of due dilligence but that would be fairly pointless as even the developer is only in the planning stages and many aspects will change.

I could wait until the proposition takes shape but by then the price will have risen significantly.

Im prepared to take a punt, afterall Im told (and will insist on) a 'free to flip' clause will apply. No one will have a clue about yields and ongoing costs. This is purely a capital growth play.
I would imagine the rules will be very strict and not too unhelpful for owners given the status of this Plan Azure site - the site owners wont want bad publicity whereas a one off hotel in Portugal may well be prepared to gamble on bad publicity given its a one off.

I have studied the prices on the Portugese development you cite and I concluded there was no comparison to this P Lixus condo, because as you say the P L condo is right on the ocean - that for me is the key attraction.

I had a lot of experience of this sort of thing in the Bahamas and for sure rooms right on the beach, NOT BEHIND TENNIS COURTS, ROADS ETC always go on to become the most sought after assets. If u think about it property set back from the ocean is common place, where as there are only finite ocean front lots, let alone 5 star properties with 2 golf courses on site.

I too have reserved a unit. May more questions and details for the next stage, in particular who will be managing the hotel, contract issues, etc. but at this stage it is an interesting one and well worth investigating further.

dogbox quote, Im prepared to take a punt, afterall Im told (and will insist on) a 'free to flip' clause will apply.

If you flip you first have to pay 5% plus vat

I think a 5% charge will be pretty off putting. I await a contract................................

I spoke with the agent today and they advised these points haven't been decided yet and won't be until first installment due. Who did you recieve thes information from?

We will need to wait for detail on tax.

As I understand it, the condo hotel will be the first leaseback style development in Morocco and this is complicating matters. There's so much that needs sorted out before we can go to contract that I won't be surprised if months pass before then rather than the 3 to 4 weeks that Essential plan.

Do people see the condo hotel being a few yards back from the edge of a cliff (not the beach) being a plus or minus? I have my views on this, but would rather get yours before giving mine.

Hi Soup, I'm trying to see if I can afford to go for one of these also and spoke to one of the agents today. I was told the 5% is a sales commission amount that any property agent would levy for finding a buyer. If you find a buyer yourself or through other means the 5% doesn't apply; simple as that. Not that I would flip it anyway if I'm able to convince my better half we can afford another Moroccan investment.

I've walked most of the Lixus site back in the fall and I think there is a plan in place with Thomas & Piron to have a walkway around the perimeter of the cliff; can't imagine it wouldn't be pedestrian-protected in some fashion. Whether or not I can afford it I'm happy that Lixus seems to be stirring forward after a slow start it seems; lends weight to the Azure Plan in general and all of our vested interests.

Soup this was one of my first concerns, however I dismissed it as there is no way I can make an informed judgement. In the end I have to hope the developer has had an appropriate engineering report done which Im certain they will have, afterall thier key investors and Bankers will have insisted.

On the plus side elevated property affords commanding views and a feeling of safety as well as cooling breeze no doubt.

Im guessing the size and spec of our condos will improve as the plan unfolds.

One word of caution - I note on other early days developments some investors took initial intentions and plans as 'red' and when alterations occured they became heated. No doubt some investors will become similarly heated when plans alter - but they fail to recognise 'change' is the very nature of the beast. So 'keep calm dears'

Hi HobieKitten I have also been told by Property Borders that a 5% charge will be made by the developer if we flip the property.

Thanks HobbieKitten and DogBox. I see being on the cliff as a bonus. Only thing I have to add to your comments is need for access to beach to be made easy. Something Thomas and Piron no doubt have in hand.

I was advised by Essential that there would be lift access to the beach

Thanks Popcorn. Couldn't imagine Thomas and Piron wouldn't want to provide this with two out of the three phases being elevated.

I am going over to Morocco next saturday to view properties with Property Borders, I will also try & go down to Port Lixus in Larache to have
a look but as construction will not start to late in 2007 not sure its worth it.

guys I will keep you posted.

FLIPPING

How easy will this be in legal terms?

Does anyone forsee any onerous complexities?

FYI -- Essential's website now notes that all discounted units are sold out.

Hi Hobiekitten, I have also had this confirmed to me by Property Borders.

So things are looking great for investment at Port Lixus Larache.

Apologize, I have been posting about Port Lixus on another thread. Condo/aparto style hotels are new territory to me. Can anyone tell me thes difference between the two? I thought they were much and so the same?

Also aswell, has anyone else heard of the Property Logic beach front aparto-hotel in Saidia which is in the pipe line?

I have just made a purchase of a 3 bed penthouse on tanjah beach for £104k with 12% down, frontline golf and ocean views. The roof terrace comes with a jacuzzi. The combination of front line golf and clear ocean views has not been offered by any of the larger golf developments as far as i can see. For me this is an outstanding investment. Only drawback is the road. I am going out to sight to see how much this will impact the site before I sign the contract.

I am also thinking about buying one of the hotel studios at La Plage in port lixus.

I am a little confused. Did all of you who bought at pre launch get a 1 bed property, ie room with next door living area, or did you get a studio which is just bedroom, bathroom and balcony?

I assume it is the one bed as these are going for £100,626 / 149,750 euros entry price. This means you got a 25% discount on the £75k you paid. Nice work.

Howeevr, I think someone on this thread said the pre-launch were studio's

These start at entry level of £59,805 / 89k euros and not all have guaranteed ocean views. I presume this is not what you have got as these are now cheaper than the pre-launch prices?

Has anyone got any insight on this?

Pre-release at Port Lixus condo hotel was for 1 bed apartments (not studios.) Price quoted was approx 75k pounds. Details of floor space were not finalised, though floor pace was expected to be around 50m2. Since then company the developers employed to recomend size of units has suggested that they should be approx. 60m2 for 1 beds. Now the developers will be building 60m2 apartemtns and are seeking to increase price for those pre-release units accordingly. Naturally those that reserved at pre-release prices want to pay price that was agreed, not the inflated price developers are now suggesting. This situation, as I understand it, has yet to be resolved. I imagine quite a few of the inital 25 units will not be taken up at the new inflated prices.

Thanks Soup Dragon. How much are they now asking for? i guess it is 20% increase in floor area, so is price hike 20% also? That would make it £90k, so 10% discount on entry price.

I spoke to them also...I wouldn't exactly class this situation as 'inflated'. Remember, this was a pre-launch offer and most things are usually subject to change...especially with only a small refundable deposit at stake. I like the fact they are still offering a hefty discount to all who went for the pre-launch and wish to go ahead with the larger size suites. And, the 6% guaranteed return is something I haven't seen anyone commit to yet in Morocco. Just my 2.5 cents.

Im sorry, I tend to disagree with thes. I think if you pay a deposit for a property, you are securing thes property at the said price. I looked at thes development, and Im sorry, but I would not longer go ahead with my reservation if thes was the case.

what are the prices that the pre launch brigade have to pay now?

I don't know what the increased prices are as yet. It sounds to me like 'sugar on the rim' syndrom, i.e. they have something in their glass which doesn't taste so good but they have coated the rim in sugar so you're first taste is sweet and promising.

They have enticed their pre-launch reservations with the promise of a good deal and then increased thes prices once their clients have bought into the concept. The size difference doesn't make so much of difference when it comes to a condo unit. To me, im afraid, price does. Not so good, Essential Estates.

This happens everywhere on pre-launch. I've been stung in both the UK and Dubai AFTER contracts have been signed. The developers always get their way. They can increase the price of units and add the costs or decrease the size by up to 5% and not have to pay you back (Crosby homes in Leeds!)

Things have gone quiet here, what do you guys think in general about Port Lixus?

My opinion is this will be a fantastic investment better than Saidia with a natural river around the resort and the site of lixus also close by.

I was at A Place in The Sun at the weekend and noticed there was a lot of interest on the Property Borders stand for this resort
and no it was not for there Moroccan muscian who was playing Moroccan live music lol

Ive invested in P Lixus and Saidia.

Both have thier merits. Saidia will have all the restaurants set around the marina right in the resort and warmer more sheltered winter weather, Port Lixus will have a more up - market, under stated feel.

You agents for Morocco should be cleaing up by explaining Bulgaria has only a short season, Spain has no mega developments that compare with Plan Azure sites, Portugal is damp and too cool in winter, Dubai and Egypt too far away and only have desert to offer, and Turkey again doesnt have mega resorts on golf on beach with marina. These Plan Azure sites are unique.

Yes I agree Port Lixus is a stunning resort I recently was there on a viewing trip and loved the place.

At the moment its a bit of a building site the villas are getting built & thier is a lot of mud around as you can imagine, the beach is big and wide with sand dunes as you go further towards the back of it.

Morocshock the river is simply breathtaking and I understand from Mustapha at Property Borders who is from Larache himself & showed me the site that a lot of birds come to this area for migration (not the type you find in nightclubs by the way).

I do think that Port Lixus will stand out from the crowd of other resorts getting built.

The motorway linking the resort to the rest of Morocco and the airport can only be a good thing, also the nearby ruins of lixus will
help bring in the tourists.

I totally agree with you Cole Trickle. I too reserved a pre-release unit. However I have taken legal advice and the opinion is that I have a case for breach of contract and misrepresentation. I am hoping that Essential will enter into some sort of meaningful negotiation, but so far they have not. And they are also asking for another deposit before issuing the contracts! Not so good, Essential Estates, Essential Worldwide, Essential Morocco, Essential Developments, Essential Group, or whatever you wish to call yourselves.

Are there any more aggrieved people who have registered at the pre-launch stage? Maybe we should create a united force?

How can you have breach of contract when you haven't signed a contract? Strange legal advice!

But I did sign a contract - albeit a reservation contract.

The pre-reservation agreement is a contract in itself - not an agreement to purchase - but an agreement to reserve a specified unit at a specified price/size prior to the sales contract. It is legally binding when the reservation deposit is paid and the agreement is signed by both parties. They usually state that the deposits are fully refundable should the buyer not wish to proceed after receiving the sales contract to purchase.

HI Adams, Sorry to hear what happened with your reservation

Port Lixus has some great beaches I am Moroccan as you can see from my name and have family who live in the Larache area, Larache is going to change a lot in the next five years. The hills just behind the beach are great for trekking and bird watching.

If you have any questions on the area just ask me.

Yes adams, I would be very interested in looking into thes as a group. I have another resrvation with Essential and have just been staking my time to see what the outcome will be.

When I put down a reservation, albeit pre launch or off plan, I don't expect the terms and conditions to be as far away from the original as thes.

I have a business partner who has also reserved, he too is not best pleased with thes situation.

adams, is there any way I can contact you? I have tried to send PM on thes forum but do not have permission. my email is
I will delete it in few hours, I hope you view thes. Please contact myself

Dar1 when is the best time of the yeart to visit? the images of the beach I have seen look really good.
Did you look at other resorts while you were there.

I thought this may help you ,The beaches are very nice in this part of Morocco that I can be sure of Fip. The best time to visit is spring but the weather in Morocco is great all year round.

Thanks Morocshock, I like the fact it will be beachfront and 5 star and that the whole resort is a lot smaller then saidia making it more exclusive.

Fip sorry I missed your post as Morocshock said the beach is fantastic big and wide with sand dunes towards the back. I did look at other resorts with Property Borders like the Tanjah Golf & Beach Resort site but for me Larache is the best the river just sold it for me. I am looking into buying in more than one resort in Morocco so I have all options on the table.