As u say, getting there now is a bit convoluted. Im hearing low budget flights into Oudja to begin this summer (various press reports suggest this including one citing Ryan Air) although personally I have a hunch they may not start so soon.
Im very confident at least one low cost operator will want to secure this soon to be lucrative route.

As for the best route now, I wouldnt like to say.




Hibiscus has the very large roof terrace so some Sun should be available in winter. I tried to ensure I was adjacent the road on a bend so no (or limited) shade would be present. I also aimed for a plot where other Hibiscus villas surrounded as oposed to the double story properties.

I went for an inner property as those directly onto the golf were too expensive. I went for phase 1 as the particular property was a good deal and met my criteria.

Some say aim for a South / S West facing garden, but you need to consider neigbouring property heights.

Note the 'inner' ring properties will be raised over 1m above the outer ring.


With regard to rental returns, nothing is certain so I havent counted my Chickens. Im confident the capital growth will be robust and like you will use it myself. We always holiday in quality villas with pool. From Sardinia to Greece and Menorca, we find the well located villas with pool always get booked - up very early and always command very substantial rents, so fingers crossed the rent will be reasonable.

Hi all,

Can anyone supply any links for similar complexes in Spain/Portugal to compare prices. ie does anyone know any golf & beach resorts in spain, maybe with multiple golf courses?

thanks

Hi Roshan

www.aphroditeleisure.com

Its in Cyprus. Has a single 9 hole course and nothing like the facilities (no designer shops, no marina, no beach etc etc).

The basic villas seem to start around £500 per week rising to £2000+ per week for the better spec.

Ive asked a few Golf specialist agents and they all tell me there is no other site they know of in the Med with the level of facilities Saidia will have, so its a real unknown.

Im hoping 3 types of people will be attracted;

1) Ordinary holiday makers wanting a luxury villa in tranquil green setting right by the beach
2) Golfers attracted to not 1 but 3, 18 hole courses year round
3) 'Gucci & glamour' crowd. Not really my thing but the site will have 60 designer outlets around a posh 800 berth marina, big named bars such as 'Budha bars' and 20 up market restaurants. 20 luxury club houses. Amazing sports facilities inc small athletics stadium, small football stadium, olympic pool, gym, aqua parks (not chavvy ones), wellness centre, polo pitch etc. Also helipads, fully maintained properties and pools, on site Swiss rental agency.

On top of this within the grounds are 8 (some say 11) up market leading hotels being built by big named chains and a 1000 seat conference centre. All these people will be exposed to the rental properties which they may book for future stays. So thats another plus in terms of the available market.

Id settle for £8000 pa rent but some people are quoting as high as £40000 pa on a £180000 outlay. Well see.

Question for all u techies:

Ive purchased 15 domain names including villamorocco and golfmorocco.

Will this benefit me?

Ryanair have just put Oujda on their website........mind you i cannot work out which airport in the UK you can fly from! Still looks like an excellent sign. We are also buying on Le Jardin de fleur, mind you we can only afford an apartment but at £120k happy enough

This is truly momentus news. The new motorway will put transfer time at about 20 mins.

Same fly time almost as La Manga on the opposit coast in Spain yet 4,4 x cheaper for a far better resort. LM has no real beach, no marina and vastly less facilities. Bring it on!

just checked the Ryanair website as I read that they had secured landing spots at Oujda. They have introduced one route from Marsailles - not sure on the cost. But at least this is a start.

DB - you asked about the domain names. Getting some of the prime names like golfmorocco.com will allow you to advertise (I was also thinking about such domains), although unless you plan to use them all I don't know why you'll need so many, you only have the one villa and programmed correctly, they will come up via a google search.

Very interseting set of comments from you all

My Brother runs his own company specialising in maximising net prescence (if that is the correct term). He advised me to get as many domains as possible as the more I have the more 'pointers' will direct traffic to my site as a result of searches.

dogbox, you are a little disingenuous to compare this with Aphrodite Hills in Cyprus.

Firstly, Aphrodite Hills is 18 holes (not 9 as you say) and whilst not having the proposed facilities that are planned for Saidia, it does have a spa, tennis courts, luxury hotel and restaurants and it is up and running.

If you don't want to move very far then the Morrocan development sounds fine, but hiring a car in Cyprus puts two other golf courses within 20 minutes, plus shopping malls, restaurants, beaches, a water park, sub aqua, micro lighting, historical sites etc. (even paint balling !). In addition there are regular flights to Larnaca and Paphos.

You can't really compare the two locations. Aphrodite hills is a going concern. Saidia may be one for the future, but you need to take a long term view.

As for getting £40,000 annual rent on a £180,000 property, well, I think it very unlikely !.

You make some valid points.

When I did my research I called rental agencies. They informed that villas on - golf and on beach are in the highest demand but very short in supply throughout the med. There are many good golf courses in Spain but it is rare to find a decent beach on site. Saidia will have not 1 but three 18 hole courses right on a 7km beach. If this isnt enough there are 20 up market restaraunts, 17 up market beach bars and 60 shops including many international designer brands. Add to that THE 800 BERTH MARINA and you get an even headier mix. On top of that there will be a huge array of top sports and fitness facilities, niot the usual pool and small gym most developments have.

2 Carrefour supermarkets are being built within this walled development, not 1, 2. These guys are big players and would not be investing so much without a bloody good reason for so doing.

Saidia is very much planned as a top draw designer resort totally incomparible to anything in Cyprus.

The flight times are very attractive. I realise Morocco wont peak for a few years but thats exactly why Im buying now.

Cyprus although nice is over supplied. Indeed one of people I know who is also buying in Saidia Morocco is Greek Cypriot, and he went to Cyprus with a view to investing but his Greek cousins told him rents were becomming difficult due to oversupply.

The biggest problem facing Morocco currently is image.

But as we all know image can change overnight and yesterdays uncool rara skirt can become tomorrows high fashion.

Ill settle for £10000 pa rent but I can see it becomming a lot more. There are only a couple of thousand private residences being built, yet the development aims to attract 500,000 pa by 2010. The 8 hotels guests will be exposed within the same site to the rental properties.
It really is a unique proposition.

Listen mate

I don't think you know what your talking about. Are you sure! 1983, that's 23 years ago, wars have been fought, new nations invented and life goes on. The only misfortune here mate, is that Morocco had to put up with the likes of you.

I can't believe you are judging a place you visited 23 years ago. So much has changed in 23 years. You talked about Morocco being a muslim state, it is the most democratic muslim country out there. Religion doesn't really play a big part of moroccan life and even if it does in some parts, they practice religion peacefully.

You can't judge a country on what they believe in. Terrorism can happen anywhere as we found out in July 2005 in the centre of London. So no country is free from terrorist attacks - muslim or otherwise.

People have to make a living and if they do approach you all you have to say is no and move on. It's not like it used to be many years ago. People are getting used to travellers and tourists and it is very safe and organised now.

I remember going to Morocco five years ago and on the boat over 99% of the people were Moroccan, but now its 98% tourists and 2-3% Moroccans.

Just a few of many examples - bought a place in Saidia last year and re-sold it for a profit of fifty thousand Euros within 3 months. Also, bought off plan in Tangier and made over 30000 Euros in one year. I don't think you can make as much in Bulgaria. Even the name sounds Russian and not many people want to spend their well deserved holidays in Russia. Puts me off everytime.

Rental for example in Tangier a nice 2 bed 2 bath apartment near the beach can be rented all year round for abou 1000 pounds a month and that's to locals.

I think you should revisit Morocco and reconsider your verdict on it because you are losing out on a lot of money and if you are as arrogant as you seem to be - I hope you don't revisit.
Also, motorways are being built all around Morocco and will be complete in 2009.

What I look for in a holiday is cheap flights and luxury accommodation, which I don't mind paying for. I refuse to pay for expensive 3 hour flights (and i bet everyone agrees). I would rather pay for the accommodation.

To me there is very little difference between Spain and Morocco with regards to scenery and accommodation, Morocco has the best unspoilt beaches I have ever seen and transport links are good. Unfortunately, there is poverty in Morocco, but that is changing. People are trying to keep their head above water and can only do this with continued investment in both commercial and tourism. How is a country supposed to do this if people like you have small minds and imagination.

What was Spain like 30 years ago - do some homework on that one.

Morocco is beautiful and it will be your mis-fortune not Morocco's.

Small mind = small money - DO YOUR HOMEWORK MATE!

I urge you to be aware of the consequences of investing in such places as Saidia. The luxury resorts in Spain are just as much an incongruous eyesore as the Benedorms. Please try not to help make another souless enclave for the rich in what is a beautiful country with a rich and vibrant culture.

The 'if I don't someone else will' argument doesn't negate the negative impact of such investments.

There are many more noble investments to be made around the world that will improve the lives of many and deliver you a profit.

Property speculation has helped create the mess we are in in the UK, lets not pro-actively cause more trouble for our North African cousins by fueling more mini-bubbles over there.

Money in itself is neither good or bad its what you do with it that matters!

Salina
I can only imagine that you have vested interests in property development in Saidia.

The properties will not be affordable by the vast majority of local residents.

I wonder if the environmental impact has been looked at? For starters there enough water?

I wonder also what the Algerians will think of this playground for rich infidels on their doorstep?

None too happy I imagine!

Morocco already has enough of this type of development in Agadir and elsewhere.

Saidia has already been a ghost town (after the Algerian border was closed) and will be again after this little developers' dream has withered on the vine.

I agree with you that Morocco doesn't want or need charity, but it needs sustainable development for all not get rich quick schemes for the few.

Probably "I wonder how we can sneak over the border and play!"

No I didn't. Don't put words into my mouth

I didn't talk about religion, terrorism or visitor safety either. You projected that onto me.

I never advocated buying in Bulgaria either.

I just said Morocco was a dump. It seems to have touched a nerve though.

But that's like me touching a nerve with the English and saying;

The women are easy and sleep around with many boyfriends, the men are soft and have no guts, they all drink too much alcohol, the people are too cold and not friendly (only when they're on holiday they want to know you), they put their parents into Nursing homes and forget them, all they talk about is the value of their houses.......

Easy eh ?

You can't judge ALL of Morocco just by a 24year old visit to Tangiers.

That's like me judging all of the USA with my impressions of arriving in New York Central Park Underground station. Or at Trailways coach station in Detroit. Neither of those were nice - but they were nearly 20years ago.

I live in Morocco and I can tell who here is telling the truth and who isn't. Or rather who is more accurate than the other.

Tangiers, when you arrive there by boat isn't nice. At least I didn't find it that pleasant. The Hustlers and hoards of people that I saw only a few years ago as I came off by car was a bit of a shock experience. But then nothing terrible happened, and no one harmed me. It wasn't hell. Maybe 23years ago it might well of been......

I know of someone who hasn't been to Morocco for over 30+ years, and to this day he still calls it a Hell-hole. So Mutley, you are not the first person to have called it that in my experience ! But I think you need to be a bit more realistic with your experiences of long ago.

I think the famous Michael Caine also called it the worst place he has EVER been to on Earth !

Anyway, I suppose it depends what sort of person you are. You can either hide yourself from these things and never experience them, living a life in cotton wool and switching the TV over whenever anything slightly distasteful distresses you, or you can look at it face on and even be part of the change.

I take my hat off to Dogbox, but I do think Dogbox that are hyping this all up from nothing. Saidia's beach, in fact any beach in Morocco, is NOTHING to shout about. In fact they are all pretty polluted places. Lots of broken glass and litter everywhere. And I mean everywhere. So whoever said (and I think it was Dogbox and Salina) that Morocco has some of the best beaches in the world a) doesn't know what they are talking about lieing c) hasn't seen a single beach in morocco or d) hasn't much experiences of beaches around the world.

Saidia and it's 60 Gucci shops isn't going to cut it in my opinion, and you cannot compare golf in La Manga with the future Saidia as La Manga is THE EPICENTRE of the Spanish Golf scene. Saidia is pretty barren. Adding however many golf courses isn't going to make it comparible to La manga overnight if ever.

BUT.

I am NO businessman and I can't tell what it'll all end up like in the future so yous makes your choices, places your bets and crosses your fingers.

To, Salina I think it is, Tangiers 2bed/2bath appartment, £1000 per month ?? all year round ?? to locals ??

Yeah, right. BS.

I personally do think Morocco has a very good future, but it'll take many, many years. As others have said, it's the nearest place other than Europe, it is mystical, it has a lot to offer holiday makers. But it HAS to clean up it's act. It HAS had a bad reputation in the past but that has been due to poverty and the poverty has been due lack of education and/or those in power being too thick/greedy/corrupt to fix things when they really should have known better and done something to help these people help themselves.

Look at Turkey. Just 15years ago hardly anyone went there for holidays - and now, I'd say it's one of the most beautiful destinations around. There is plenty of corruption there. But they have managed to clean up their image, and to market and sell themselves.

Finally, I don't agree with Salina at all that Morocco isn't a very religous place. In my experience their religion is 80% their life and their lifestyle if pretty much lived around that religion.

I'm totally with the sentiments of Tinecu.

Do not think anyone believes that it is not a long term play. Of course there is a risk. What isn't? I am far too young to be placing my savings into cash. It is indeed placing a bet, but like DogBox I have quietly got on with my research and am taking an educated investment guess.

Comments like the beach is rubbish may be true. Two points, they can clean a beach and second have you seen the state of the beaches on the Costa del Sol, not pretty.

Many people are looking for top end resorts that offer a 'dream' destination at a reasonable price. I expect many europeans to be attracted to this development. Not everyone wants to wander the streets of Morocco and be cultural. This is indeed a resort for the sun worshipping consumer. Plenty of those around.

So, yes this development may "wither on the vine" and that is the gamble but i believe not. I believe you misunderstand the market for this sort of development. It is top-end cash rich, time poor people. Morocco, Dubai, Spain it matters not a jot. As long as its easy to get too and hot they will come.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr...y=gen-en-250506

Not quite. It's more like you saying "England is a dump" and me accusing you of saying "The women are easy and sleep around with many boyfriends, the men are soft and have no guts, they all drink too much alcohol, the people are too cold and not friendly (only when they're on holiday they want to know you), they put their parents into Nursing homes and forget them, all they talk about is the value of their houses......."

I hadn't considered that there could be a terrorist problem until selina brought it up.

I intentionally included the year of my visit (1983) so you can dismiss my experience if it suits you. I apologise for my choice of words which I accept were unnecessarily barbed, but this is meant to be an investment forum, not an international love-in.

You are very wrong my freind.

Locals benefit in 2 ways; 1) Their own patch of land rockets in value. 2) Local business benefits beyond all recognition from restaurants to cabs, local Banking to fishermen.

Im an enviro - nut and belong to a few wildlife charities. Saidia is a nature reserve and although some clearance is needed for building the site is very eco freindly. Morocco is very sparsely populated and vastly less spoiled than the UK so no real impact on nature will be felt. Water will come from nearby mountains and is not at all in short supply. Morocco has many mountainous areas and some are snow covered year round.

Ordinary Moroccans will benefit from this mass tourism increase just as Greece and Spain did. Your lofty inaction will certainly not benefit anyone.





Mutley I welcome your input even though you take the opposite view to me!


BTW, to add to the list of international investors, the people behind SUNCITY in S Africa have just announced thier Moroccan projects.

Morocco is unstoppable now, there is just too much captial inflow from the big property and tourism companies to allow failure.

Ryanair are opening up to 20 routes. Big business and Dubai money will have been colloborating with the Moroccans behind the scenes to ensure this happened.
This is only the beginning.

Other large Spannish developers are also now moving in.

By all means dont buy, but also dont for one minute think Morocco property wont boom, only a fool would make such a mistake.

'This little developer' as you put it is Spains second biggest developer 'Fadesa'.

They are but one of many large international companies helping Morocco to becomea world class destination.

BTW another 'little developer' here is the worlds largest -'Emaar Properties' out of Dubai. They are building 6 extensive projects.

Things change my freind, few places are set in aspic.

Come join the party. The Guardian reading, cuscus types are buying around Marakech if that sound more your style

I monitor activity on the Channel 4 forum 'buying abroad'.

In the last few weeks Morocco has become the subject with highest number of topics posted.

Agents such as Superior in Bristol which deal with 14 different nations, tell me Morocco has recently become the number 1 interest in terms of numbers of new buyers.
Im also reliably informed that the low cost airlines are engaged in a fierce battle to secure routes in recognition of the sizeable market opportunity, which they say is largely driven by the closeness of Morocco to the UK.

The developers of Sun City S Africa have just announced thier plans for Morocco to include a casino based mega resort.

hmmmmm, sounds like Mr Dogbox might be marketing these properties in Mediterrania Saidia........

Maybe but I do doubt it. The internet is full of discussion forums and buying abroad places that are buzzing with talk of Morocco.

Everything that dogbox has said is correct. I have also done the research he has done. If he is a VI then at least he is an honest one!

I have always noticed that in life it is those with a positive outlook that get the biggest 'kicking'. It is often the same in the workplace, those with a negative outlook often seen as the 'deep thinkers'. Rubbish of course.

I am a UK property BEAR, however believe there is value globally whatever happens to interest rates in the short term. This development has all the hallmarks of a decent investment. It is NOT a sure thing. You can only do what you think is right. I think it is right, and across the net so do many others. If everyone thought it made sense the values of the properties would be too high . Bring on the doomsayers. Throw the enviromental card into the fray. Whatever. As an investment it stacks up better than cash or a unit trust tracking the UK index!

I wish I was! Ive actually inadmintantly introduced 4 people that have all reserved on the same development, so I wish I was getting paid!

I think Ill write to the King and ask if I can become a promoter for the tourism ministry.

Dogbox = Thorr on Channel4 forum.

I thought I was the only one that thought that!

I think the constant mantra "60 gucci style shops, heliports, olympic swimming pools yadda yadda yadda" kinda gives the id away.

dogbox is a long term poster on this site, and has changed from UK property bull to UK property sceptic.I like to read his posts because they are usually insightful and honest. He may have switched his sights to overseas, but I'd be amazed to discover that he is a Morroco property marketing dummy (Unlike others on this thread)

Your villa isn't actually on the golf course? Had a quick look on the web, and here's what sounds a comparable villa (probably a lot nicer), directly on the golf course in La Manga, with an asking price of £620k: http://lamangaclubresales.datagate.net.uk/...dule.asp?ID=206 - You say that 'those directly on the golf course were too expensive', which implies a high premium for villas that are actually on the golf course, so let's knock off a conservative £120k for a villa that isn't actually on the golf course. Thus a comparable property in Spain costs less than £500k (at the top of the spanish property bubble), rather than 'over £1 million pounds'. You're more than half a million pounds out! For your sake, hopefully the rest of your calculations are somewhat more accurate...

Spain is also closer, a lot safer & more desirable than Morocco. It's just as well you're buying in a 'totally safe gated development', from the FCO travel advice, let's hope they're big strong gates, and security guards with guns come included! If you're a woman, you better like staying within the gates Sounds too dangerous to go out on your own.

The whole thing sounds very risky when the best you can reasonably hope for is doubling your money. Scary risk/reward ratio, but good luck anyway. Your best bet is perhaps flipping the place, which is what it looks like you're going to do.

Was wondering about all the new members posting in this thread, whose deep interest in becoming BTL speculators in Africa has led to them joining a site about a UK house price crash, until reading this little gem:

Following your suggestion, have done a little bit of homework on Morocco, and am wondering about earthquakes such as this one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4358425/ - It sounds as though there is a high incidence of earthquakes in the region, so much so that anyone considering holding a property long term in Northern Morocco will experience the effects of one.

A couple of questions selina:
- Are there building regulations enforcing a minimum strength of new builds in Morocco? If so, where on the richter scale is this strength limit? (as a 6.5 took out the block of new looking flats in the link above, if a limit exists, it must be less than 6.5?)
- Is it possible to get earthquake insurance in Northern Morocco? If so, how much does it cost for a new build villa?

Given your strong vested interest in selling property in the area, I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to provide links to web pages with this information on. My french is pretty good, and a friend of mine is fluent in Arabic, so language isn't a problem.

Many thanks,

LI

You need to get your facts straight.

My villa isnt directly attatched to a fairway but its behind a house that is. I will have a 30 second walk. The site has a 7km beach. La Manga has a little brown strip that gets so crowded no one really considers it a proper beach. La Manga has no Marina let alone a world class 850 berth marina!

You consider this a risky investment not worthwhile. Can you let Emaar Property out of Dubai know theyve made a mistake building 6 prestige developments, on and while youre at it you better let Spains second largest developer 'Fadesa' know theyve made a real booboo with Saidia. Oh and there's the Sun City people and some other high profile developers who also require your insight.
While your at it can you let Ryanair know to, theyve just announced 20 routes - muppets

Oh and then there are the various international hotel chains building in Saidia including Barcelo group.

Investing doesnt come in conveinient tins complete with a 'green for go' label. Spain is yesterdays investment.

Its funny you know. I recall people buying in Spain 20 years ago. I recall people sniggering behind thier backs, rolling eyes "fancy buying in Spain, you cant trust them locals and the water will give you Berry Berry".
Now THAT ONCE EXOTIC, FRINGE INVESTMENT HAS BECOME THE NORM. Funny that.

You said that a similar villa in La Manga would cost over a million pounds. That's getting your facts straight?

Hi Guys,

My name is Andy Welland and i am the International Sales Manager for a company called www.propertyshowrooms.com which is based in Southern Spain. We currently work with 9 different countries and Morocco is bay far the most popular at the moment. I have been over to La Saidia many times so if any of you would like to receive pictures of the resort or some honest advice as to what is good and what is not in Morocco then drop me an email on andy.welland@propertyshowrooms.com We deal with all of the developers in La Saidia and can give you a very good overview on the whole project. Just incase any of you are looking at the Villas on Jardin de Fleur i have just had one client pull out due to financial problems which was on the first phase. If you have seen the new prices for phase 3 they start from about £190 -195,000 and this was one of the best ones on phase 1 @ £182,000

Just so you all know that i am not in this forum to sell you something and will attach some of the photos of La Saidia to this posting. I am just amazed by the amount of people that are buying rubbish in Morocco based on price alone. I talk with maybe 30 people a day about Morocco. I have stood on hundreds of development sites in Spain, Canaries, Bulgaria, Turkey and Cyprus to name but a few and as with any country there is both good and bad investments, La Saidia for me is by far the most unique project i have ever seen. That is easy for me to say because i have been to all of these places.

Finally a message to Dog Box, If you want to set yourself up as a referal agent in the UK i would be more than happy to hear from you........thats not if you already are.

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Hi Andy and welcome,

I know what you mean about Morocco, we have been tempted a few times with overseas properties but nothing excited us like Saidia. It is quite unique.
We have bought a Magnum apartment and went out there in March so it was great to see your pics (although not much has moved since then !!)

keep em coming please !!!

drop me an email and will send you all the ones that i have. I will also be going back again on the 23rd, 30th and 7th of july all with clients that have reserved property in la Saidia and are all very happy. I will take more pitures then and gladly email them to you

Andy

You have a PM

Just encase any of you are still looking or have bought in Jardin de Fleur, Prices on the apartments will be going up on the 15th of June by 3% and the Villas by 2%

Andy welcome,

Are these price - hikes genuine or just the developer trying to 'up the tempo' when in actual fact one could still buy at the old prices?

Another increase was announced a few weeks back (4%), did this take effect?

Hi DogBox,

There was a price increase on the 15th of May and to give you an example in Block number 7a Unit number 1060b the price prior to the 15th of May was £109,767 and is now currently available at £111,866. After the 15th of June you will pay about £115k for the same property. If you want to picky about it lets just say a client reserved on 14th of May at £111,866 and by the 15th of June and in just over a month he has seen his property increase in Value by a £6000 pounds.

The thing with Jardin de Fleur is that they have seen a massive demand for their product with there now only being about 50 - 60 apatrments left available. They have also told me that there will be a price increase on the 15th of every month until they get down to the last 20 - 30 units and at this point they are going to put the prices up even higher as this will then be aimed at the kind of people that we refer to as end users and they will pay a premium in order to be able to SEE IT, FEEL IT, TOUCH IT.

I think that the price increases are justified and if you start looking at the other developments in La Saidia it is not just Jardin de Fleur that is going up. For example Tasa units went up by 7% 2 weeks ago and Oasis Beach and Golf have released villas that are the same sqm as a Jardin de Fleur apartment for £250k.

I personally believe that La Saidia will be the most exclusive resort in the whole of Morocco for far to many reasons to go into now. I cannot see any reason why people who have purchased could see a minimum of at 2% increase every month which is 24% growth per annum.
If anyone wants to come back and say thats not possible then look at the Costa Calida. The only difference is that Costa Calida market will have a far worse resale market than the Costa del Sol has at the moment.

La Saidia is exclusive and unique it will remain the most exclusive and unique project in Morocco. The type of clients that i have had purchase there range from Bankers and Doctors to Music producers.

May i also just say Dog that i have read through alot of your coments on this forum and i am 100% behind you.

As a final note the second of the kings projects will be released on the Atlantic coast in about 4 - 6 weeks. if you want to have a look at it go to www.port-lixus.com

Having now found this forum i will keep you all posted on any updates that i might get.

Andy

Thanks for all the information Andy. It's good to hear an agent confirming what many of us believe about Morocco.

If you haven't already found the forum www.buyingmoroccanproperty.com I suggest you look at it!

And before anyone accuses me of being in league with anyone, none of the posts are from me and I've actually bought through another agent, but am very pleased to hear what Andy has posted about Saidia.

Andy,

Please can you tell me where this 'rubbish' in Morocco is ??

I am living in Casablanca and looking for property myself (Saidia is too far from a work point of view).

Hi Big Log,

When i was saying about rubbish i was referring more to the agents out there that are pushing products that dont really offer the best rental or resale potential as most of my clients are looking for investment. If we are not very careful i can see that we end up having a situation very similar to what has happened in Spain and Bulgaria.

I think that you must make sure that a buyer knows who his rental market and resale market will be and also which other developments he will be in competition against. If you take a look at the coastline between Tangiers to Larache there are developments such as Paradise Beach and Asilah Beach which are selling very quickly but is this is a question of people not being informed about Port - Lixus and clients getting carried away with what is currently available? Is this down to the agent just looking to get the sale done and get there money ASAP?. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with these projects before i start getting bombarded with postings from people, it is just that in my opinion agents should make sure that they listen to why a client is looking to buy and not just be in it for the short term.

This is exactly what happened in Spain and also in Bulgaria to name but a few countries. This is why the Costa del Sol has over 30,000 resales and why Bulgaria is also going to end up with the same problem. Morocco is at the very early stages so lets not get it wrong at the start.

The first thing I ask people is have you ever been to Morocco and 90% of the time they say no. So educate them first on what is happening and what Vision 2010 is about and then find them something that matches what they are looking for.

The only project that i know of at the moment between Casablanca and El Jadida is Les Palmiers De Casablanca which is being developed by the same people as Le Jardin de Fleur. We have seen a lot of people register interest in this product that are from Casablanca and also a lot of Moroccans from America, Holland and France. Prices start from 65,000€ for a 2 bed apartment - fully furnished. The whole area will be developed over a period of time and i am being told that there are plans for a 12km paseo. It is a very similar situation to what has happened on the coastline of Spain and this area will be built up over a longer period of time. I already know of investors that are land banking in this area.

Also one of the Kings resorts is planned for the area between El Jadida and Casablanca called Mazagan Haouzia by a developer called Kerzner International.

I have now been contacted by quite a few people from this Forum and have already said to them that i do visit al ot of these sites but this is the first time that i have ever posted anything. The reason for that is because i think that Morocco is going to be an amazing market and has so much potential.

If you want more details on Les Palmiers then email me and i will send you all the plans that i have. It is still on a pre release basis at the moment.

Please remember this is only my personal opinion......

I agree Andy.

I was roundly condemned on another forum when I questioned investors buying into smaller sites such as Asilah and PB. They thought I was being negative, when in actual fact I was trying to be helpful!

They point I was trying to make was that Saidia will have a much more robust rental market given the year round facilities which are hugely more extensive than those at the small sites. Also there will always be demand for security which Saidia has in abundance.
Also the 8 or so hotels and conference centre will be good for rental exposure and the marketing machinery of the hotels will benefit the site as a whole.

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Thankyou Dog Box,

I am trying to be as diplomatic as i possibly can without offending anyone. I have attached a map with the location of the 6 main resorts in Morocco.

Hi Dog Box and Andy

According to one of the other forums, property purchased at Saidia will only be able to be let through the onsite agency which offer offer a maximum guarantee of 2.5% - is this true?

I am calling Property Logic (Jardin de Fleur now)




Hi Fabs,

I have just been told this is only the case if you purchase through Fadesa. I am just ringing their uk office to see if this is the true.

Fadesa will have a rental management company in place but i have just been told that they will be offering 3% on the first year and 4 % on the second year. If anyone wants more in depth info on this i would suggest to contact them directly in their uk office which is Telephone: +44 (0)20 7486 6500

I also know that Jardin de Fleur have been contacted by several companies with regards to their product. As far as i am aware this is totally seperate to Fadesa. They have not contracted anything at the moment but this is understandable as the Tour Companies or Management companies are trying to get the best deal the same as the people that are buying the properties

Jardin de Fleur also have aquired plots from Fadesa to do 25 Luxury Villas which will be 400sqm build size on about 1000sqm plots + Townhouses and also an Aparthotel on Phase 3 of the Saidia development and will be looking for a 5 star company to manage all of their products.

Thank you for your quick response. I would be grateful if you could keep me/us posted as you receive info.

Andy, Ive got my name down for a marina berth (purely as an investment), either 15m or 20m.

The agent Im dealing with tells me there are none left but has put me on a list if any should arrise.

Dont suupose you have one?


Andy, what about rent levels?

We use villas every year and always end up paying somewhere between £1000 - £2000 per week for detatched with pool, NOT ON A BEACH in a non chavvy resort in places such as Menorca. Smae for Sardinia and Greek islands such as Paxos.

When you think these villas will have the added benefit of being within walking distance of the beach and have the 3 golf courses, surely the rents will be reasonably strong?