According to your usual logic, they'd be better off watching it off the DVD player



P.S. How much longer have you left on the Adult literacy classes ?

With sniffovision .

A patch of sand........

yes, but surrounded by what ??

Surrounded by other sand. Approx 150m distant there are many Fadesa built villas already up. Quite a lot of the lakes and irrigation now in place. There are piles of rock everywhere to shape THE THREE 18 HOLE GOLF COURSES:rolleyes:

Biglog I'll buy you a beer if your'e ever in Saidia as long as you dont have a backpack and funny beard

On what foundations do you make this claim.

Seriously Dogbox, thanks for the beer, come to Casablanca and I may take you up on it. I've been to Saidia, and I'm in no rush to go back.

A couple arrived back from Med Saidia on Wednesday having met Anton from Superior to view thier property.

They are customers of mine and a while back told me they were going to invest in Bulgaria. I suggested they look at Morocco and leant them my copy of Superiors brochure. They cancelled Bulgaria and instead put a deposit on a Saidia property - 'Oasis appartment'.

They showed me the photos. Fadesa are well progressed with hundreds of properties built but I dont like the look of them.

What foundations are they waiting for before the webcam goes up, the foundations for the last building they build.

Dogbox, I think your friends mean your villa is within 150m of Fadesa apartments. Completed villas are surther away. The apartments look good (only saw from outside) though that particular plot is perhaps the most crammed on the whole development. Not as well spaced out as LFDF or the Magnum. Think Andy posted pictures of them on this thread - many, many pages back.

I've heard different stories about the webcam. At one point it was going to be next to VVT8 to so we could view construction of our villas. Now it would appear it is going to be on top of the reception building (near shopping area next to the marina.)

I don't view the news on the shuttle service as either good or bad, just in line with expectations. (A self contained resort like this was always likely to have a shuttle service.)

My freinds say they stood on LJDF villa plot when they took the photo as directed by Anton from Superior. Within 150m is a huge line of completed Fadesa villas. Perhaps they were'nt standing on the LJDF plot?

Anyway a heck of alot of building has gone - up since I last saw photos. The size of the marina is breathtaking and the water a lovely colour compared to other marinas Ive seen.

Perhaps they were standing on plot for LJDF apartments as the line of villas is near the reception area (which is close to RT7.) Either way, it isn't important. Good to hear about progress and how things are coming along. Hopefully someone that visits in next few weeks will paste some pictures on this thread.

Tunnel Spain-Morocco

"Actual construction of the 40km twin rail tunnel could take 15 years from when preliminary studies and the exploration tunnels were finished, Giovanni said.

Spanish engineers involved in the project have said that if no major geological or technical problems arise rail passengers could be travelling to and from Africa by 2025.

It would be a twin rail tunnel with a service tunnel between and is projected to carry 9-million passengers in the first year, rising to 11-million after 10 years. It could also carry 8-million tonnes of goods in 2025."

I met them at a recent property exhibition and heard some negative comments from someone leaving their stand. Please PM me and let me know your concerns as I don't want to make an expensive mistake. Thanks

KWS,phatpaws,
pm's not working.Have just returned from a superb 4 days in Morocco!
I may be contacted on ifhpm@yahoo.co.uk.

got any photos you can post online?

Latest news on thier investment into Med - Saidia from luxury international hotel group - Barcelo;


Thier 600 room 5* hotel is due to open within the Saidia development summer 2007. You can see details on thier website.
This is the kind of factor that gives me investor confidence and what sets this opportunity appart from most others. The fact there will be up to 10 more up market brand hotels further underpins the proposition.


http://www.barcelo.com/BarceloHotels/en-GB...dia/Saidia/Home

I'm really very pleased for you that your investment appears to be sound...however now I really am starting to think your are on commission or something! Why is it that EVERY thread on this forum re Morocco leads back to Saida? (Rhetorical question! Please do not respond with a list of the benefits of this development cos I've read it so many times I can probably chant the bullet points off in my sleep!
Is anybody doing anything in Chechuoan or Fes? If so I'd like to hear about it.

I do not know anything about properties in Fez...

Please feel free to start your own saidia - free thread.

Ive had a lot of private messages and as you can see the thread has had over 23000 hits, so it would appear someone values the info / banter.

Stick me on ignore, I can take it

Esmerelda. I think the reason Saidia gets a disproportionate numbe of posts boils down to one thing - it was the first of the 6 PLan Azzur sites to release prices. Most other reasons for this thread being so popular and there being a focus on Saidia come down to this factor. For instance, had Port Lixus been first people would likely have bought into it and be posting about it rather than Saidia.

Saw the Barcelo being constructed in July. It was huge ( not high, just wide.) My guide mentioned that it would be the largest in Morocco and that there would be a casino near reception (between its two wings.) Don't see any mention of the casino on link. Swim to bar sounds good.

I think you'll find the reason Saidia gets a disproportionate number of posts is that it boils down to one thing, Dogbox.

As is often the case, he is talking out of his ar$e about a place he has NEVER even visited (yet claims it's brilliant!).

Those in the know are just giving their experienced perspective (which Dogbox the flipper *has* to counter as he is bricking it)

Dogbox is on one mission - to flip a place (after all, who buys a villa in a country they've never visited, claiming it's for their holidays ?)

For heaven's sake, put a sock in it and stick the personal comments - you're obsessed!

I have to agree with Biglog and Esmerelda. I can't quite get my head around the fact that a group of people are using HousePriceCrash as a forum to talk about their investment in Saidia.

There are about 15 people (none of them with posts in any other subject on HPC and under 20 posts). They apparently have all bought in Saidia and come on to HousepriceCrash to simply say "Hey Ive heard the Marina is going to be fantastic, have you heard this?" . Why dont you guys set up a Saidia website and talk about this stuff FFS.

IMO this whole Morocco investment is a fraud. A scam which helps a few flippers with them buying off plan and then hyping to stupid brits before selling to them and making a quick dollar.

Dogbox is probably a 20-something person who is spending alot of time on diferent forums (he uses other nicknames on other forums, thorr, investy1, etc).

Do not take it him seriously anymore.

Or could it be Im just very enthusiastic and this forum for some unknown reason seems to be popular with Morocco investors?

Biglog I originally invested as the deal had a lot going for it and for sure the 'flip' option is always something any investor ought to seek as a potential exit route.
Having said that Im currently of the opinion that this is a long term hold.

I now seek a new investment and to be honest Im finding it difficult.




So its ok for people to discuss 'Gold' at immense legnth (see Singing Pig) but somehow investment into Morocco is a problem?

Perhaps Morocco is worthy of such attention

long season,
chav free zone,
short flights,
exotic,
Spannish French and English widely spoken,
large unspoiled beaches,
big developers attracted,
Free - Trade agreement with the US,
'Open Skies Policy',
90 miles from The Costas,
unusual high concentration of up market developments,
5000km of new roads being built,
planned development - not the unplanned spread you see in Spain, etc.
'Vision 2010'
Golf on the beach (not a drive as with much of Spain)

The initial fraud was on the Spanish market where lots of stupid brits bought overpriced houses. Many of them paid huge prices and then their houses are now almost demolished.

What real estate agencies did was just to export the fraud to Morocco and used some propaganda for inviting people to invest.

If they could, they would export the fraud from Spain to Tunisia, Algeria or wherever they can make some quick buck.

The initial fraud was on the Spanish market where lots of stupid brits bought overpriced houses. Many of them paid huge prices and then their houses are now almost demolished.

What real estate agencies did was just to export the fraud to Morocco and used some propaganda for inviting people to invest.

If they could, they would export the fraud from Spain to Tunisia, Algeria or wherever they can make some quick buck.


Why all the bitterness/anger/conspiracy theories. We discuss Saidia and Morocco as an exciting investment because that is exactly what it is. Noone truly knows what the outcome of the development will be but there is the chance it will be very very special indeed.

If people have genuine reasons to post, both +ve and -ve then im all for it. However starting unfounded conspiracy theories is of no benefit to anyone. Adidibrown - alot of the people who 'have posted less than 20 posts' are genuine buyers, and this is backed by the fact that they are on an owners mailing list set up for investors in Le Jardin De Fleur...to use the fact that they have less than 20 posts under their belt as reason to suspect that they are 'posing as investors' is very strange.

Dogbox - Continue sharing your research, its appreciated.

I must say this bit of teh forum does crack me up.

Catara is this the same "corrupt market" you tell us you are looking to buy into? Mate you are as transparent as a fishtank.

As for Dogbox. I enjoy your posts on Germany and Morocco as a market. What I object to is a group of people using HPC forums to discuss a specific development in order to ramp it up. I cannot see any reason why you cannot just set up a litle website called www.saidiabuyers.com and direct everyone there to talk about the development.....but of course you wont because you are after the publicity of discussing Saidia in public. After all I imagine a few people will have taken a closer look after reading one of your hundreds of posts on the subject.

If lots of people come on to this website who have invested in Morocco and talk about Morocco as a market, in my eyes that is justified. If they are even talking about specific areas then that is even justified. But specific projects I think is highly suspicious and out of place.

It would be like me starting a thread about my business (say it was a plumbers called Greggs). I may encourage my clients and friends to visit HPC and post things like "Greggs do a really great job at knock down prices, it may be worth considering if you are struggling to afford a renovation project". Now I could argue that it just happened that a lot of my clients visited HPC. I could argue that the thread was relevant. It would simply be shameless plugging though.

On the other hand I could set up a thread saying "Plumbers are overpriced in my opinion" or "I woud say you could look around and get it much cheaper elsewhere".

The difference with Saidia is you are shamelessly promoting it as a project rather than coming here to simply discuss the merits of investing in Morocco.

I have no doubt you are a genuine investor. I have no qualms about you making a comment on here saying "I have invested in Saidia as well, in my opinion Morocco is a Blah BlahBlah...."

What I object about is posts like "I visited last week and they had done blah blah.....have you heard they are expanding the marina blah blah blah....what plot did you buy.....latest news is that such and such hotel are coming....just in: Prada have decided to put a shop on site.....BLAH BLAH BLAH all shameless marketing crap. Why dont you share this information elsewhere rather than a forum set up for investment/house prices.

There are a lot of people from Brighton on this forum but I am hardly going to start posting "Oh have you seen they have built a new starbucks on the corner of George Street in Hove.....Oh Pizza Express have moved into Seven Dials.....Have you seen the new boats in the marina etc etc. There is a place for sharing this information.

When I say less than 20 posts and posts only on this subject I am pointing out that the only contribution you make on this site is just to come on here to discuss Saidia with Dogbox. This forum hasnt been set up as a Saidia community newsletter or gossip column. It is a serious forum for discussing genuine investment ideas.

Well, you can always ignore it...

Your problem with Morocco is that it apparently comptetes with Spanish market where you have financial interests (probably you are a flipper on the Spanish market same as other people are flippers in Morocco).

When the flippers are out of Spanish market (as they will at the 4% Euribor interest rate
of next year), I shall restart my search of buying a property in a much cleaner Spanish market. Now the Spanish market is a big fraud and I do not want to pay for speculations made by others.

Anyone new to this forum and reading this thread must think we are head bangers. Seriously, give the offensive remarks a miss and keep to informative posts / views. Those that have invested in Saidia know that the success of our investments is down to the success of the resort. It is only natural that we share information on the progress of Saidia. This is the thread we do it on. If you don't like that then don't read the thread.

You obviously have no idea about flipping. A flipper buys a property off plan and then sells before completion. At no stage would they be taking a Euro mortgage out. In fact I think less than 5% of house purchases on the costas comes from borrowed Euros so Euribor has very little if no effect.

I dont flip and have never flipped property in Spain or anywhere.





Why would I ignore it when it offers me so much amusement.

Almost as funny as people ploughing money into countries such as Romania



My apologies I'll try and keep my views to myself. I hadnt realised I'd joined a Saidia Information Website.

Please continue as normal with your collective back slapping

This website is called housepricecrash

Probably like adibrown I find this thread assuming as this thread is biggest fish out of water i've ever seen and its compounded by some of the most ridiculous hype and 'sales talk' (the tunnel by 2008) I have have read.

OK this is the overseas property investment section, but all the same, its like everyone else left the back door open to pop down the shop and in snook dogbox et al and set up home in the spare bedroom.

I did not have time to go in all detail.

thye scenario is:
- flippers flip properties in Spain
- stupid people buy from them at inflated prices or stupid flippers cannot sell the properties before completion
- stupid flippers have to pay the property or they lose the deposit
- if they opay the property they need a mortgage
- the rate is going to skyrocket in Spain so they cannot take the mortgage.

Result: house price crash in Spain, same as in USA now.

I hope now it is clearer...

Yes your right of course. The whole market is run by flippers with Spanish mortgages....no retirees at all or UK investors taking UK mortgages/remortgages. If euribor rises to the heady heights of 4% people are really going to suffer.

Just lets hope that German HPI doesnt happen and the Spanish Gvt cancels the non resident Capital Gains cut in January 07'.

Sorry, can you say that again in English ?

Clearly your struggling on this forum in general .

Almost as funny as people ploughing money into countries such as Romania
My apologies I'll try and keep my views to myself. I hadnt realised I'd joined a Saidia Information Website.

Please continue as normal with your collective back slapping
[/quote]


I dont really understand your point. You are on a thread dedicated to Morocco, and the discussion has concentrated on Saidia - no surprise there seeing as it is the first of the King's Resort releases. Yes this is Housepricecrash but who cares, I intend to research my purchase on any website which makes mention of it. Once other resorts are released then no doubt attention will turn to them (and you may get your wish that debate calms down for a while).

Can we please stop the rubbishing and just discuss, and if you have no interest (and not just directing this at you adidibrown) then just dont read the threads - You clearly feel strongly that people are 'throwing their money away' so why keep coming back. I dont think that Bulgaria is a good investment anymore... I therefore dont regularly read threads on Bulgaria. I guess what I could do is post regularly on how I think everyone is making a mistake and how 'stupid' they all are and roll my eyes at them, but I have better things to do with my time. I read threads on Saidia because I am interested, I find it bizarre that you are too?.....

You are probably the worst offender Phatpaws (18 posts in this one thread). I've just looked through your 18 posts and see you have added nothing of merit to this forum in terms of opinion other than attacking those that question this threads validity or promote "Andy" the agent and discuss your "plot".

Swapping photos of the development, discussing various plots and clauses in your contract etc all of these things do not add to a discussion on whether Morocco is a good investment or not. It is just tittle tattle between buyers of a project.

I dont know how many times I have to go over this before you understand what I am saying.

You say "Once other resorts are released then no doubt attention will turn to them". This is my point. It hasn't happened with any other resort in any other country and never will....this only happens with Saidia and will only happen with Saidia because Dogbox has bought there and he takes pride in shamelessly promoting it day in day out.

if you have no interest (and not just directing this at you adidibrown) then just dont read the threads - You clearly feel strongly that people are 'throwing their money away' so why keep coming back.

I do have an interest in discussing overseas property and Morocco in general and that is why I come back on here daily but feel that the whole topic has been taken over by the Saidia project.

This is my suggestion....why dont we discuss investment in Morocco on this thread. Dogbox should go and setup another thread calling it "Saidia Information". This would be a thread were you could discuss agents, contracts, pictures of your plot etc. Of course it would look completely and out of place on this housepricecrash website and you guys should go and set up your own site to discuss that kind of information but hey what the heck there is just no getting that part of the argument through to you.









You clearly miss the whole point of these forums. If you dont think Bulgaria is a good investment then you should share and debate those opinions with those that do think Bulgaria is a good investment. If people didnt do that then what would be the point of having a forum, you might as well just have a noticeboard where people could post where they were going to invest.

Jeez this sentance is a real insight. You only visit this website and these forums to hear the latest on Saidia and have no other interest in anything else. What a valuable member you are

The ECB rate goes to 3.5% in December (that is 100% sure), then 3.75 in March and 4% in June.

The interest rate in UK goes to 6% next SUmmer so the remortgages will be at 7%-8% which will make it unprofitable. This will lead to bad crashes in Spain, Cyprus, Morocco, etc.

"you guys should go and set up your own site to discuss that kind of information"



Or alternatively, we (plural) continue as we were and you (singular) go elsewhere....

Adi

I thought it interesting that 30% of the top 30 threads on Channel 4s 'buying overseas' forum, concern Morocco.

I do sympathise with your irritation, but the simple fact is there is significant interest in Moroccan property and seemingly more so than for any other new destination.

Please note there are several Moroccan threads on HPC, it just so happens that the Saidia one is more popular.


I note you are very interested in the Spannish market. Perhaps this explains your irritation with Morocco? This is understandable, folk are very attatched to Spain and anything that could undermine Spannish dominance can unsettle them.
The fact the Moroccans are striving to build a largely middle class up - market tourist proposition also seems to scratch at the bandage.


Dubai investors are similarly sensitive as displayed on the Ch 4 forum. I think they feel threatened that a luxurious property proposition (ie Morocco's Plan Azure sites), much of it built with Dubai money is being constructed with a flight time 60% less than Dubai's.

Lastly some folk investing in Bulgarian property have also taken swipes at the Moroccan lot. Could it be they now recognise that a short season and unplanned down - market touristic sprawl are'nt a good combination?

Thats more like it. A debate about Morocco and not about the ins and outs of one development.

Interesting you mention Channel 4 Overseas property forum as thats another one where you (AKA Thorr) and Soup Dragon harp on about this Saidia development, keeping it quite cleverly as you state in the top 30 posts.

I must say I admire your marketing skills and have to take my hat off to the time you dedicate to plugging your investment online. My concern is for those left holding property in Morocco once you have flipped and moved on to your next venture.

Spain is a different prospect completely. I have a house I bought quite a few years ago and have no current intention of selling it and have no interest in its value now or whenever. It doesn't irritate me that people are throwing their money into African Developments, I think it is all very charitable and will I am sure turn the country from Third world into Developing State.

It does surprise me though that Saidia investors compare prices in their unbuilt African project with those already built in developed EEC countries.





OK lets put it another way...by all means continue to discuss general investment in Moron-con property on this thread but when discussing the ins and outs of the Saidia Community at least have the decency to set up a seperate thread on this site. I dont want to click on the Moroccon Property thread to see a post between you and Dogbox talking about your kitchen door selection in your new villas.

Yes, of which your posts on them, as Thorr, make up approximately 80% there of...............

I said all along, and now others at long last are joining me - I detest ramping/flipping. You wouldn't like it done in your back yard, but are smug and selfish enough to play the part of exporting this great British pastime into a 3rd world country.

One of my many customers (Moroccan) very recently told me she detests Speculation. I felt ashamed on behalf of the brit brigade that I know on here to be aware of their plans for Saidia.

What a sad bunch of 'investors' you are.

P.S. BTW, Andy Welland is a Salesman that was his own words on his *very* first post on Morocco - in my experience NEVER trust a Salesman......

This is a classic example of Thorrs/Dogbox ramping:

Yes I know Im buying in Saidia Morocco but the exit route is superb and many British agents are available for re - sales and letting.

Get there before the crowd

So he is making out that this is a good investment on the basis that you can exit quickly (preferably before completion)....not really encouraging for anybody looking for long term investment in Saidia or god forbid looking for a holiday home.



Here we go http://saidia.forumup.co.uk/forum-1-saidia.html

Look a whole forum on Saidia....fill your boots.

Of course this doesnt allow you to ramp up your project so is pretty pointless posting on.

There are many other brits brigades who screwed up prices everywhere in Europe and beyond.

Ther are blamed everywhere same as everybody hates Californians in USA for over-speculating. Locals cannot afford buying apartments because people like
dogbox wanted a quick money out of anything.

1) 'We' learned about property investment from the Asians, Greeks and Italians. I recall vividly in my first job in North London in the mid eighties speaking to these people and to a Man they all invested in multiple property, Pensions for them were a joke designed to con the unsuspecting Brit who largely only knew Pensions and Endowments. This will be documented by Historians in the future.

After these encounters I always made a point of talking to the staff / owners in Indian restaurants about property and sure enough just about all of them were into B2L before 'we' even knew what B2L was.


2) Biglog can you not see that the investment into infrastructure is pouring money into Moroccan pockets? Why do you think the King is doing this, for his own vanity?
Its been shown time and time again that a good way to kick - start an economy is with mass tourism as the Greek islands and Portugal discovered.

The way forward is not Cuban or N Korean style national 'works'.

Hi, this message is for Dogbox. I for one consider you to be an invaluable source on information on this site and others - I think you are registered on other forums under a different user name?

I would greatly value your opinion on a dilema which I have at the moment in connection with LJDF on Saidia - I dont feel able to post it on an open forum, I have tried to send you a pm but because Im a new member I don't think I have the right to.

Please could you advise me how best to contact you, are you registered on the Saidia forum? I am the site admin on that one and could send you a pm via that one.

I hope to hear from you.

Kind regards

rorypops

Ive tried to PM you, but as many other say on here, IT DOESNT WORK for some reason

Will try and contact you on the other forum but must warn I find that forum very difficult to use