Please expand. what is wrong with playa vista and who is offering cheap properties in saidia and why?

www.playavistaonline.co.uk

Re Saidia, received an e-mail on it which was a get first in sales blurb offering free white goods - cannot remember source etc, think I binned it.

I read that Morocco will be holding elections next year and that recent opinion polls show an extremist religious party in the lead at the moment. Should they win (shades of Algeria) what price your investment then ?.

**snigger**

not really worth getting your throat cut over, is it?

face it - the middle east is going up in flames

looks like dogbox is getting out anyway

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=33600

a classic pump and dump, this thread.

nice one, dogbox

Just got my contract through for LJDF - looks like I've got almost all the clauses included that I wanted. Its quite some time since I reserved, but looks like I'm finally ready to sign.
[/quote]


Soupdragon, I have been a browser for a number of months (this is first post) and I must say that I think that your threads are the most infomative and balanced views on here. I am very close to handing over the first 20% on a 1st floor LJDF appartment (was out there in July and impressed by everything going on), and was wondering if you would be able to disclose the changes that were agreed to in your contract. This would help alot.

Hi phatpawz

I've gone for a villa in LJDF, so much of what I inserted won't be appropriate for you. (I will list it though.) Like others on here and other forums, I failed to get anything relating to government guarantee or 10 year building guarantee. My solicitor (CBA Law) informed me the latter shouldn't be an issue as all new builds in Saidia (and presumably other developments elsewhere) come with 10 year guarantee.

I'm afraid I'll hold one clause back from list as if event X happens I will have a reduction on purchase price, but if lots of people included this claause event X would be less likely to happen. Sorry about that, I know I may come in for stick from others, but just protecting my interests. I will add that that clause would only be of use if you were considering a villa.

From memeory, clauses were:
1) All permissions must be in place before work commences and next 20% installment is due. (Contracts for villas don't include this, they simply say next 20% due when construction has started.)
2) Pool to be a minimum of 21m2.
3) Small wall, approx. 1m high, with flowers on top to divide property from others and provide some privacy.
4) Stipulating upstairs room was to be a 3rd bedroom and furnished accordingly. (Plan in contract appendice had this as an office when it should be an en-suite bedroom.)
5) Property Logic to provide me with access to property 2 or 3 days before completion so I can check everything is in order. Outstanding 60% not to be paid till I'm happy. (With buying property in UK we can construct a snagging list after completing. This isn't the case in Morocco.)
6) Had refundable deposit taken off first 20% installment. Not everyone has done this. I've read on one or two other forums about some people not being able to do this.

Property Logic have been very reasonable throughout the negotiating period. The only condition above where I asked for something different was number 3. I asked for a hedge. The wording they have used in contract leads me to believe that everyone buying villa in LJDF will have small wall with flowers ont top separating their property from those it neighbours.

Probably as important as any clause is managing your solicitors. If they are on fixed fee they might be happy to run with contract as Property Logic provide it and not inform you of clauses they feel you should add. This was the case for me. My experience of solicitors is that they will let you fall to bottom of their list if you don't keep in regular contact with them.

In my eyes the main risks to my investment are the stability of Morocco and Property Logic. I'm comfortable enough with those and managed to nail down other smaller concerns through clauses in contract.

From memeory, clauses were:
1) All permissions must be in place before work commences and next 20% installment is due. (Contracts for villas don't include this, they simply say next 20% due when construction has started.)
2) Pool to be a minimum of 21m2.
3) Small wall, approx. 1m high, with flowers on top to divide property from others and provide some privacy.
4) Stipulating upstairs room was to be a 3rd bedroom and furnished accordingly. (Plan in contract appendice had this as an office when it should be an en-suite bedroom.)
5) Property Logic to provide me with access to property 2 or 3 days before completion so I can check everything is in order. Outstanding 60% not to be paid till I'm happy. (With buying property in UK we can construct a snagging list after completing. This isn't the case in Morocco.)
6) Had refundable deposit taken off first 20% installment. Not everyone has done this. I've read on one or two other forums about some people not being able to do this.

Property Logic have been very reasonable throughout the negotiating period. The only condition above where I asked for something different was number 3. I asked for a hedge. The wording they have used in contract leads me to believe that everyone buying villa in LJDF will have small wall with flowers ont top separating their property from those it neighbours.

Probably as important as any clause is managing your solicitors. If they are on fixed fee they might be happy to run with contract as Property Logic provide it and not inform you of clauses they feel you should add. This was the case for me. My experience of solicitors is that they will let you fall to bottom of their list if you don't keep in regular contact with them.

In my eyes the main risks to my investment are the stability of Morocco and Property Logic. I'm comfortable enough with those and managed to nail down other smaller concerns through clauses in contract.
[/quote]


Soupdragon,

Thanks once again for sharing your experiences with us. I understand that you would want to keep situation X under wraps for obvious reasons. My identified risks are the same - to me the quality of development is a 'no brainer' decision as even if it turns out to be 70% of what it is on paper then it will be a great place to holiday. I am buying for 2 reasons - investment primarily, and holidays for myself.

Property Logic's lack of bank guarantee is my main concern at the moment. I understand from the threads that they are not highly geared, but am aware of the number of projects that they have in the pipeline. I am unsure as to why they would not just pass through any costs of provision of guarantees to the end consumer (I am sure everyone would have paid a small % more on purchase price to ensure original capital is guaranteed). I am going ahead with purchase despite this concern (agree that stability remains an issue as well), but am just a bit surprised that guarantees aren’t offered (I wonder if guarantees would limit the number of projects PL could undertake at any one time by placing liquidity requirements on the??) Anyways, thanks again for the info, much appreciated.

No problem phatpawz. Like you I'd also have been willing to pay a little bit more for bank guarantee or similar.

phatpawz where have you bought and through what agent? Any links? I was so close to purchasing in Morroco a couple of weeks ago with Tanja but now I have some concerns with them. I've started looking at other developments in Morroco but prices seem to be all over the place. Im finding it hard to compare places and payment schemes. I don't want to commit to much money towards this venture (in the region of 20k-25k max).

Tanja had 2 bed apartments for 85k with a sea or golf view, but best of all only 25% deposit required the rest financed via a mortgage. If anyone can suggest what other places I should be considering. Help appreciated....

Hi Gasman,

If you email me on andy.welland@propertyshowrooms.com i will send you some details on Fadesa´s Kabila development on the Med Coast.

Andy

Hi Gasman,

I have reserved in Saidia on the Le Jardin De Fleur RT2 appts. I went for Saidia for the same reasons that have been outlined earlier in this thread by Dogbox (thanks to you for all your posts as well). I think it should be quite a fantastic place, and being a flagship development for the Kingdom provides me with some comfort. Comfort does however come at a cost, and you will pay a premium per sq foot above some (not all) other developments for an apartment in Saidia.

If cost is the key driver for your choices then you should maybe look elsewhere (but beware of risks outlined by Dogbox/Thorr in other threads regarding stand alone developments) - Andy makes a good suggestion above - I actually reserved through him, and he is very informative - when i visited Saidia it was clear that he was by far the most knowledgeable agent there (and there were some who had no idea). So I would go through him if I were you... (Andy, I take cheque or cash)... Seriously though I would def recommend him (as I have done previously to friends who have also bought on the development).

How much is the Le Jardin De Fleur RT2 appts? What payment plan did you get? 40% deposit?

Gasman I was told by my Agent that the 'Tasa' built appartments have a 10% pa deposit scheme over 3 years. They are within the Saidia complex close to beach built around swimming lakes with Golf adjacent. I think the prices were £60000 and up.

PM me if you want the Agents details or I can pass your details to her.

Gasman,

My apologies my appartment is on plot RT-7 although these have now all nearly sold out. RT-2 is a new release - I would suggest visiting www.lejardindefleur.com and having a look under 'prices' in order to get a feel of current pricing and payment plans. Cheers

Interesting news from a holiday website. Morocco No 3 in its Top 10 destinations fo 2007.

http://www.nowpublic.com/top_10_new_travel...ations_for_2007

hi smilie
Governement's role in the developement of tourism remains to be seen , if governement's activities are appropriately targeted , it will be possible for this to play a very constructive role , considerably accelerating its tourism developent , even though there are disadvantages in morocco now , but there is big changing into developement , facing a deep desire to increase and tttract lots foreign people with a special method within the next few years
if someone wants to , they will want to put their money something that will be profirable and secure so we have to ask what kind of projects and ask ourselves why would people want to travel here , morocco attracts lots people now that because of culture , geography traditions activities and the country has a unique life that's why

there are many partnerships with many markets , britain and europe , soon there will be flights from moscow directly to agadir and marrakesh the most beautiful cities in morocco
and many north american canadian companies participating and proving in exchnaging assistance in this tourism field
As i can say there is a boom in tourism developement and i can ensure there will be more advantages on this country , i belive that the minister of moroccan tourism provide incentives in this market investing in marketing to attarct many other companies

nowadays there are lots people prefer to visit morocco , that related to its culture history dialects , ways of celerations , and the way of lives in countrysides or inside cities cities like AGADIR MARRAKESH FES OURZAZATE AND SAIDIA NEXT COMING TIME those cities remain the heart of morocco in tourism and many projects built here , and many are still being , on the other hand we still expecting a big boom in this field

iam looking forward to hear from you
and here is my email address to contact me : goolish22@hotmail.com

*

best regards

HI
greeting
tourism is a very important activity for the national economy more than 3 million tourists are visiting morocco each year the governement activities are appropriately targeted it will be posible to play a very constructive role , considerably accelerating its developement



nowadays morocoo is getting to attract 10 000 000 tourist by the year 2010 and there governemnet is trying vert hard to encourage this filed more

sometimes we ask why do people would come to this country and what attracts them to visit here , that is because of the rich culture , activities traditions ways of lives and ways of celebrations and also the lives in rural areas

in my view point morocco is going into a boom in tourism and many investors are coming but the main cities are AGADIR MARREKSH ESSOUYARRA OURZAZATE and there is an expectation because of SAIDIA , many proojects will be builts there hotels , villas golfing

iam looking forward to hear from you here is my email address
iceberg181@hotmail.com

yours sincerly

HI
GREETING
tourism is a very important activity for the national economy more than 3 million tourists are visiting morocco each year , and by the next of 2010 there will be 10 000 000 visitors in this country
the governement's role in the developement of tourism remain to be seen if the governement activities are appropriately targeted accelerating its development to play a very constructive role considerabley

we should ask ourselves why do people would come to morocco and what attracts them to choose it their destination that relates to its rich culture , traditions , ways of celebrations , ways of lives and the lives ep in rural areas

there are main cities that attract people are are more touristic SUCH AS AGADIR MARRAKESH ESSAOUARRA AND OURZAZTE BY THE NEXT COMING TIME there will be many other places

i would like to encourage you to invest in morococ being moroccan boy i know how important to inest here and that will be succefully positive if yo do your projects in those cities
if you have any questions feel free to contact me at
iceberg181@hotmail.com

yours sincermy

HI daganglo
greeting

If someone wants to invest in morocco , they will want put their money in somthing that will be profirable and secure so we have to ask what kind of projects are profirable and secure , then we have to ask ourse'lves why would people want to travel here and what do they need what when they come ? here we can notice something can attract lots people coming from foreign countries they see something they can't find it in their countries that is concerned with culture , traditions ; ways of celebrations ways of lives in rural areas and outside cities wonderful beaches

and so one needs to find a uniqure aspect of local environement that tourist wants , tourism is very important activity for the national economy more than 36 million tourists are visiting morocco each year and the role of governemnt in the coming year by the 2010 they would like to attract 10 000 000 tourist during this time the method is taking place and many hotels beds , activities of entertainment there is a big boom concerning this field

so far we can notice that there is a huge economy in this tourism field the country offers a wide range of tourism related to services , business and sport tourism are to segment with a high developement potencial

if you would really liek to invest in morocco you could do taht and i can recommend you that certainly will be positively successful and many benefits , i would encourage you there are tourist cities such as AGADIR MARRAKESH FES OUARZAZATE

being moroccan boy 23 years old , i would help you if you would like to invest in AGADIR city which can offer wonderful beach moreover sunny weather and it seems fantastic

her eis my email iceberg181@hotmail.com

best regards

I am thinking of buying a apartment on the pre launch of kabila Marina smir.

I called Beverley at property borders.com for details, with prices from under 50k I think it must be a winner,is anyone else buying there
by the way it's on the med side of Morocco

Hi

I'm thinking of buying there...a two bed apartment.

Seems like its a good deal for the price.

What are your thoughts?

Seems good to me and being built by well known builder its going to sell very fast
I think.

Being close to the luxury of marina smir as well.

I wonder if we'll be offered berths on the Marina (at a discounted rate). Anyone know?

Not sure about that Mustapha@propertyborders.com says marina smir is 5 kilometres away from kabila.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have read on other forums that there is new legislation stating that there is no Vat payable on new build completed after 2007.
with LJDF prices where given to include vat and given that the properties will not be built untill 2008 does this mean that the prices should now be given taking the VAT Off ?????

Hi Lina, I hadn't heard of this. I wouldn't have thought that there was the need for the Government to do this to encourage more investment, but will be very pleased if it reduces the price we have to pay and increases demand further.

From looking at other websites it would appear that nobody has had this information from source (allegedly Price Waterhouse.) Interested to hear what Andy Wellard has heard on this.

I am sure a lot of people will be having interesting conversations with there agents on Monday.
Does any one know the amount they have added in for Vat.

Also i have a small investment property in Birmingham. it is currently rented out and the morgate payments are covered . should i consider selling this and buying on one of the future projects on morocco and if so which ones should i wait for?

Soup,

Have just got off the phone to Andy, and he has asked me to post that his internet is out and as soon as he is back up and running he will convey his thoughts on the matter. I too am interested in implications, I would also be interested in anything people know on the matter.

Hi
I have been following this thread with some interest, thank you for all your informative posts on Morocco, I have purchased a villa on the LJDF, It would be really useful if you could let me know what solicitors you have used, I have been recommended Legalex but would like to see what other options there are before signing up with them.
Thank you

Hi Atlantis

I've also bought a villa on LJDF. Several people, myself included, have used cba law. They do a contract check for £350 (which should by now be very straightforward for them) or the whole service for £1000. I was quoted 1% so went for a contract check only. Other people seem only to have to pay the £1000.

Hi
Thanks for that, seems alot cheaper than I have been quoted, could you mail me CBA email please, I would really appreciate it, We are out of the country tommorow, no not Morocco, Cyprus, so any info would be appreciated

You may wish to look at:

www.playavistaonline.co.uk

Re CBA law as there is some information about buying property in Morocco on that site.

From what I can tell I think CBA law acted very responsibly in relation the mess that was/is Playa Vista.

Hi Everyone,

Ok VAT in Morocco is a subject that I will be the first to admit is not my best subject, and I have seen lots of various postings on the subject saying that you have to pay it, you don't have to pay it and so on and so on.

If you take Saidia as an example Fadesa and Tasa promoted their prices and then added 14% VAT where as JDF and Oasis prices were inclusive of 14% VAT. If VAT was something that didn't apply to off plan property in Morocco then I am sure that as Saidia is the Kings and the Governments main focus at the moment it would have been bought up by now.

I have heard that there is possibly something going through that could reduce or take VAT off New Build properties.......I take this as exactly that, a possibility.

Until this becomes fact then everyone should understand that they are paying VAT, even on the Fadesa Kabila project the prices are inclusive of 14% VAT.

Lets say as an example that something is put in place for 1st of June 2007 and from that point there is no VAT on off plan property in Morocco.

a) Would this then apply to people who have purchased in 2005 / 2006 but don't complete until after this date?

Would this then be calculated and taken away from the final 60% that the client has to pay?

c) How will it effect prices?

d) Will someone who buys on the 1st of June 2007 in effect be getting the property at the prices someone purchased for in mid 2006?

This is all speculation but I am sure these are the sort of things you are asking yourself now.

My advice would be this.

At this moment in time you should be aware that there is 14% VAT in the prices. If anything happens in the future that changes this then you will have to wait until you know the facts and how it will effect you. If you get anything back then see it as a bonus.

The one thing that I will add is that I cant see anyone getting property in Morocco for a price that is less than what you are paying now.

Hope this helps,

Andy

This VAT is a confusing subject and I feel Andy is right when he says we should assume final purchase price is price we have already agreed.

My understanding of VAT situation is that VAT payable on new build only applies to the developers, though VAT is effectively passed on to buyer through purchase price. Therefore, even if VAT were to be waived for new build completing after 2007 we may find that it is the developer and not us that benefits.

Atlantis: As others have said, CBA Law are good if you want to keep costs down. I've gone with £1k flat fee over simple report for extra peace of mind. I've had their report and don't think it was worth the £350 - Property Logic's English translation of contract was accurate and report didn't throw up anything that I hadn't already thought of. Where is your villa? I'm 2nd line in phase 3, facing East.

Atlantis,

I've used Legalex, but since I engaged them at 1%, I've heard they've got much more expensive.

Report on the contract was nothing - as there was a PL English version as Soup D says which is generic - can send you a copy if you haven't got one.

All in all, I think the laywers have got an easy job for their money (to date), although they will arrange for electricity / gas / bills etc to be settled on the completion of the contract.

I read on another board some time ago that LJDF villas will be flankd by 1st and 18th holes of one of the courses. Has anyone else heard this? I'm keen to know where club house will be. The closer the better.

[Atlantis- the website is www.cba-law.co.uk

Soup Dragon - I don't know if this is any help www.segalesgolf.net but it has the golf course plans

Hi Soup

I have just phoned Property Logic to see if i can find out for you. It shouldnt be to hard as they have started to move the earth and create the water hazards on that golf course, plus they have also put in markers as to where the holes are going to be.

They said they will get back to me but failing that i will be there again on the 1st of september.

Andy


[attachmentid=3755]

Hi Soup,

This is even quicker. Take a look at the picture attached, i got this from the following link

http://www.segalesgolf.net/disenyo.php?lang=eng&id=75

Andy

Thanks Andy & fws.

I suspect the link to golf course design doesn't have holes ordered correctly as detailed Saidia Phase 2 site plan Andy has E-mailed me has one club house for both non championship courses between VVT9 and VVT11. That plan has 1st and 18th holes of both courses next to club house, so seems logical that it will service both.

(Graphics from Segalegolf site have 1st and 18th holes of closest course next to ZV7, but there is no club house here, just a maintenance building.)

Would have been a bonus had the club house been nearer.

Hi Scotty,
Thanks for the info, I have contacted CBA for a quote, If you could you could send me a copy of the contract I would really appreciate it. I have entered my private mail address in the members section, but you have difficulty let me know and I can give you my contact details.,Thanks very much, We have reserved in LJDF Villa second line.

Hi BrickingIT
Great name, thanks for playavistaonline, seems like they encountered a bit of trouble, very useful as I have not come across this site.

Soup/Fws
Thanks for CBS mail, I have contacted them and asked for a quote, will take on board what you said about the contract deal, especially if its a generic one.

Atlantis

Hi Atlantis. Which villa type have you opted for and which phase are you in?

If you don't get CBA Law's report on contract from Scotty soon let me know as me able to mail you.

Hi Dogbox

I plan to visit Berlin next month in search of property.

I am interested in commercial (shops) , apartment block or like you land with planning....

1) Any advise

2) Can you provide good contacts / agents.

Thanks

SUN

If you PM me with your email details I will pass them to my agent in Berlin. I found her very efficient and honest.

Hi Soupdragon

Have gone for the Hibiscus on Phase 1 second line, thanks for the offer of report on contract will let you know if I need it,

Regards
Atlantis

Hi All,

This is my first time post and first time venture into the world of overseas property investment.

I'm looking to buy an appartment in JDF and wold like to know your thoughts on desirability of a ground floor appartment as opposed to a first floor one.

Also, it seems that potentially we would be paying over 50% of rental in tax. Please see the following:

http://www.propertyshowrooms.com/morocco/p...ax-planning.asp

30% property tax
13.5% property rental tax
10% garbage collection tax (after 5 years)

.... is this correct?

I know in life nothing is certain, but this development does seem to have a lot going for it. I'm hoping that there will be at least 15% capital growth sustainable for 4 years. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Welcome Digs

The 30% property tax doesn't count for the first five years. Don't think our rental is taxed in Morocco either for first few years, though makes little difference as will still be taxed in UK.

I'd probably go for a ground floor over a first floor unless the extra height makes a difference for views or flat faces the street. Ground floors should be cooler in the summer (OK not a biggie given comes with air conditioning) and you have garden or terrace area that is larger than terrace for 1st floors.

I'd say 15% house price inflation is a conservative estimate, though its a good idea to manage expectations with mind set of just looking for that return. We have been seeing arround 2% per month for some time. If that continues then we'll see roughtly 25% p.a.

Perhaps someone can clarify the "property rental tax" element.
My understanding is that this is payable,irrespective of whether or not the property is rented
From my perspective this would be disappointing news as i would have to pay 13.5% of something that i was not even receiving.
On a property which cost 250,000 euros, rental potential valued at say,8% that is 2,700 euros every year,
Is this correct? <_

Hi Soup, Magnate and Digs,

Digs - The information that you have seen on our website is a rough guide and you should always get professional advice on tax issues.

Soup and Magnate - I know that Soup is using CBA Law and we have started to recommend this company to our clients that are buying in Morocco. I spoke with Ross Coates last week and they have a new lawyer that is from the Tetouan area starting tomorrow who can also advise on Tax implications.

You may have noticed that there are more apartments showing as available on the JDF website, this is due to Property Logic having a clean up on clients that have had reservations placed for long periods of time but have not gone to private purchase contract.

Digs - I would look at the ground floor units in Block 11 - They are West facing and also close to the pool and Club House. I still prefer the RT7 plot more than RT2. The apartments are bigger, They are more central within the resort, They are closer to the Marina, and they are cheaper. Also they are within phase 2 of the development so they will complete later than RT2.

I also spoke with Superior yesterday (Oasis Beach and Golf) who have told me that they have purchased one of the locals within the Commercial center which they will be using for onsite rentals and resale's.

Regards,

Andy Welland

I have reserved front line on phase. Would you be able to send me the CBA Law's report

mmv