Hi Fabs / Dog box

First of all i dont think that Jardin de Fleur will have any ideas about the management company for at least a year. Both Jardin de Fleur and Oasis are getting their marina births from Fadesa so if you contact them directly you might have a better chance of geting one. It might be that the agent you have been dealing with is only contacting JDF who only have 10m births left.

At the moment i would not like to put a figure on how much you would get as a rental from your villa. There are lots of different figures bouncing around but it is really hard as there is nothing to compare it to. I have heard on the grapevine that James Villas have contacted JDF and if this is true then prices of £1000 - £2000 per week could be quite possible.

Hope this helps

Hi Andy and thanks for your comments.

I also thank you for the map of Morocco and the sites you mention.

As I have already mentioned, I live in Morocco (Casablanca) and have visited a lot of Morocco (as you can imagine though, living and holidaying in a country can mean two different things).

I take my hat off to people like Dogbox, because even though I live here, I can't seem to find anywhere that I'd really like to buy and settle in.

Put a gun to my head though and I'd have to plump for somewhere around Rabat or Marrakech.

Asilah I like. I've been there several times (on business in Tangiers) and I liked the beach line.

Saidia I went to once. The sea is the best I'd been to in Morocco (though I'm not a sea swimming type person). Being on the mediteranean though it is the best. The Atlantic is a bit too rough. I went their at the busiest time (August) and it is a pretty dangerous place due to the extremely dangerous and poor driving. I knew of someone who lost a child there due to the poor thing getting run over.....

Tangiers isn't a place I particularly am drawn to - a bit too Hustler and vagabondy for me.

Casablanca is just way too busy - and the driving in Casablanca is undoubtably the worst in the country.

Essaouria - extremely windy (if wind isn't your thing, and it wasn't particularly ours, you just want to find shelter somewhere !).

Marrakech, Rabat I'd say are the best places.

On Saidia, or Asilah, I'm very interested in knowing who these investments are aimed at. I know Dogbox is saying to rent for £1000 - £2000 but when I went to Saidia there isn't a shortage of people standing at the roadside offering you the keys to their villas.

I cannot see locals renting for that amount or anywhere near that - I'd say the rental would be somewhere around £300-£500 a week.

Asilah, calm place - though fail to see the attraction

Not unless you are talking about renting to Brits - in which case I fail to see the draw.

In all of this, I am honestly not trying to be negative - I really fail to see why people would spend so much money. If they like the place, sure, come here for holidays every year. But unless you have family here, or you have work here, I fail to see why someone would invest in a property here. There are just so many places in the world to visit and it's not anything that special here to tie you in.

I'd say that about anywhere (Bulgaria, Spain etc).

Please someone enlighten me on the point I'm missing.

Of course that is just my opinion and I wish everybody the best of luck.

Hi Andy/Dog box

If the owner of the property is likely to receive around a 3% yield (I understand that this is not yet confirmed), this equates to approx £450 (on a £180k investment) - assuming constant rent for a full year. So why does it matter what the rent charged is - the management company is likely to pocket the difference?

Apologies for all the questions - I am looking for an investment in Morocco and want to consider all options open to me.

Thanks.

Andy,

very good to hear your view on Saidia.

Question for you. Property Logic are advertising a fully furnished apartment and villa, yet the contract only states that a "furniture package" will be added to the contract once they have been finalised and selected. Although not expecting any level of detail, I've been trying to get a high level inventory included in my contract (to state that a/c; beds; sofas; cookers tvs etc), but they're not moving. Have you come against this problem with PL before and have any of your clients managed to get them to change the contract to reflect this.

Scotty, they made ammendments to my contract to include for example a clause to state the pool will be handed over 'ready for use and filled', and that the garden will be 'lawn with hedge boundaries' so I was pleased they had bothered to accomodate.

The furniture package I have'nt bothered to pin - down for 2 reasons; 1) The property is a bargain even without furniture so I didnt want to push my luck afterall the price of phase 3 is a lot more than my identical property in phase 1

2) I have had experience of this with UK developers and even they wouldnt go into specifics about furniture, they are busy people and are'nt interested in getting into what they percieve to be petty details, so it just is'nt worth pushing them. If they were struggling to find buyers then I would make more detailed demands.

The kitchen packs are displayed on thier website as promised so Im confident the furniture packs will follow shortly and be more than decent. I referred the developers to a website for Aphrodite hills in Cyprus as I wanted them to advise me whether the LJDF product would have as good a finish.
They emailed me back and said "Our package will be far superior", and cynic though I am, Im inclined to trust them on this.

An agent told me yesterday that this developer has now been allocated further plots within the site as his product is the fastest selling and outstripping the sales of the head developers (Fadesa) product.

Please someone enlighten me on the point I'm missing.

Of course that is just my opinion and I wish everybody the best of luck.
[/quote]


Hi Big Log,

For me alot of my clients are not looking for relocation but a holiday home or an investment. Morocco at the moment is the place that is the most attractive with regards to purchasing costs, taxes, capital growth etc etc etc. Yes they may want to use it for a couple of weeks in the year but apart from that they are in it to try and make some money.

If you take the UK as an example there is now a property show every weekend in every major town. The world is becoming a smaller place and people are looking for ways to make their money go that little bit further.

The biggest problem as far as i can see is that there is now an "emerging market " every day. one person will tell you that Poland is the most up and coming place and another might say its Morocco. We have people looking everywhere from Bulgaria to Brazil. I really do believe that there is great investment in every country in the world it is just a question of finding it.
This is why we wont deal with every development in a country because not all of it is good.

The other problem you then have is when agents just jump on the bandwagon and are in it purely to earn a quick buck and dont give a t0$$ what they sell to people.

I have always said that if i wouldnt sell it to my mother then i wouldnt sell it to anyone.

My view is that you never tell a lie to a client becase if you do one day you will have to remember what it was you said and then things go wrong.

Provide them with the informtion to do their own research and if from that your company has provided a good service and has built up a good relationship with them you should keep that business. It works for us and we also get alot of client referals from it.

Hi Scotty,

Dog Box has pretty much summed it up. I also think that the main reason why they are not ready with the furniture packs yet is because they dont even start construction until November with completion 2 and half years away from now. If you have any problems regarding contracts you should make sure that it is dealt with by your lawyer prior to signing, as this is what you are paying them for. Property Logic have been very helpfull with all of my clients.

Hi fabs,

If you want to get all of the info currently available without getting involved with agents and to compare all developers in La Saidia please check out the following websites.

www.lejardindefleur.com - Property Logic
www.oasismorocco.com - Superior
www.fadesa.co.uk - Fadesa
www.grupotasa.com - Tasa

Also dont worry about asking lots of questions as you must make sure that you feel comfortable with any purchase you make. It is very easy for agents to sit there and say that it is a great investment and it does have great rental potential, but its not their money.

I would advise that you first of all try and pin it down to a certain development and then go over and have a look. I presume that you are in the UK???

As an example with jardin de fleur you could put down a fully refundable 3000€ / £2000 reservation to take a property of the market ( i would suggest doing this before the 15th of June to secure the current price) You then have 30 days in which to come over and have a look and decide if you want to go to private purchase contract.
You as the client would then cover the cost of flights from the UK to Malaga and would also need to pay for a couple of nights accom which lets face it wouldnt be a lot (normally Thursday - Saturday) If you chose to do this with www.propertyshowrooms.com we would then cover the cost of your flight by private jet with property logic from Malaga to Oujda. We would then tour you around La Saidia, go for some lunch and then fly back to Malaga the same day.
The worst case scenario is that you reserve a property, come over to have a look and then say " andy its not for me" we would then get you your reservation deposit back........but the main thing is you would have seen it.

With superior it is slightly different as they say that the client pays for the flights from the UK to Malaga and also from Malaga to Melia with Superior picking up the bill for the accom. If you didnt want to go ahead then superior would charge a £100 admin fee from your reservation deposit.......but again at least you would have seen it.

Both companies take you into Fadesa´s office to see the 2 and 3 bed apartments so either way you will have a better idea of what is all about.

I always say to people that you can to as much research as you want at exhibitions or on the internet but there is nothing better than standing on the development yourself. For the amount of money that you are looking to invest and in the grander scheme of things to pay for a couple of flights and some accomodation and have the experience of seeing it is worth every penny.

Hi Andy

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not sure that I was clear enough in my previous post - if the management company are going to be offering 3% yield (I know that this is not set in stone), how does this translate to the £1000 to £2000 per week that Dog box mentions?

Just to fill you in, I am from the UK and am looking to purchase a coastal property in Morocco that I can use 2/3 weekends per year and rent out as much as possible for the rest of the year. I am considering both the Saidia project and the Port Lixus project as well as any possible Emaar resort.

If I were buying with my own tastes uppermost I would possibly go for Portlixus, however I have been told you get sand blasted on the beach!

In terms of investment however I preferred LJDF as Saidia should draw the winter crowds to a greater degree than say Portlixus due to extensive facilities, ie - people more likely to part with cash on a winter break knowing that if weather is poor they can still have a great time. Also Port Lixus property is quite a bit more expensive.

In terms of Emaar I like the look of Tinja, real class and understated but I suspect the prices will be pretty strong.

The real ace with Saidia for me is that the 8 international hotels plus 1000 seat conferance centre will act as a draw thus expanding exposure to the rented property considerably.

Depends what you are buying for I guess.

[attachmentid=3482][attachmentid=3481][attachmentid=3480]

You are talking about Fadesa who are offering a Gaurenteed rental scheme which is based on a % of the purchase price.

As an example lets just say the property is worth 150,000€ and you were getting a rental return of 3% for the first year you would expect to get back before any deductions about 4500€. This money would then be used to help pay off your mortgage. The reason that it is low is because that it Gaurenteed. You may find that your property only has clients in it 10 weeks of the year and that the company charged £1000 a week but you would still get your 3% of the purchase price.

It is what i would regard as low risk. Sometimes the people that are buying are not interested in making a profit from the rental as long as it is covering the costs of the property, they are more concerned with the capital growth as this is the larger sum of money that interests them.

What i think Dog Box is refering to is private rentals or using the services of a rental management company that Jardin de Fleur then get in place. This would not be gaurenteed but has the potential to offer higher returns. He would still have to pay out a fee to the management company. But lets just say he only manages to rent it out for 2 weeks of the year at £1500 per week he would still have to payout a % to the rental management company and walk away with less than Fadesa are offering but that is a higher risk. If things go really well for him he might get 20 weeks and walk away with a nice tidy little profit and still be able to use it on the weeks that it wasnt rented out. This option is more flexible, has higher returns but also comes with a higher risk.

Normally with Gaurenteed Rental schemes it can be that you have limited use on your property or sometimes have to pay to use it....check out the contract with a lawyer before signing to anything.

Also with regards to Port - Lixus and Eemar as everyone seems to be talking about i have got one of our guys in contact with both of these companies and will post any news that i get ASAP. Our guy was stood on the plot of Port - Lixus last week and said it is stunning, at the moment they are in the process of building the show homes and apart from that there are a couple of porta cabins( pictures attached )

Sorry they are not the best

Hope this is of some help

Hi Andy

Thank you for the pictures!

Apologies - I didn't realise that Jardin de Fleur allow private rentals. I had assumed that you could only have rental income through the guaranteed rental scheme.

I look forward to hearing more on the Port Lixus and Emaar projects. Once there is more onfo available, I'll get in touch with you for some details.

Thanks again!

Andy - It is my understanding that much of the land round Saidia development is owned by the government and that certainly to the westermost side the area is protected and designated as a bird sanctuary. Is this your understanding? I realise that land use can change, just looking to check that information I've been given is correct.

DogBox et all. I've looked at a few sites to get feel for likely rentals and as Andy has mentioned there isn't a lot that is directly comparable. (Only now are large developments of Saidia's quality being constructed.) My gut feel is that rental will be near the £1k a week mark. Here's one site that has plenty of quality villas and riads for rental: http://www.homelidays.com/EN-Holidays-Rent...morocco_r11.asp

2 more rental sites:

www.fleewinter.co.uk
www.villasofmorocco.com

THE STARTING RENT IS 3500EUROS PER WEEK low season on villasofmorocco.

I have read on many occasions that the adjacent land is a nature reserve. Also some islands just off the beach are reserves.

[quote name='The Soup Dragon' date='Jun 13 2006, 04:53 PM' post='399110']
Andy - It is my understanding that much of the land round Saidia development is owned by the government and that certainly to the westermost side the area is protected and designated as a bird sanctuary. Is this your understanding? I realise that land use can change, just looking to check that information I've been given is correct.


Hi Soup Dragon,

From the way that it has been explained to me the information that you have been given is the same as i have been told. I am sure you would also have heard that they cannot build anything either in or around the Saidia project for 15 years after the project is completed. I do agree with you that the use of land can change.......just look at the Costa del Sol.

Hi Fabs,

Bit of news on Port - Lixus for everyone but it certainly wasnt what i was expecting.

Please see notes from an email just sent to me.

1st phase delayed...will be released in June...villas starting at at least 400.000 Euros...350m2 built on plot with pool of 1.200m2.

Is this what we were expecting?????

Andy

In this week's Sunday Times:

"One of Britain's most senior military strategists has warned that western civilisation faces a threat on a par with the Barbarian invasions that destroyed the Roman empire.....
Rear Admiral Chris Parry said......north African pirates could be attacking yachts and beaches in the Mediterranean within ten years........
The direct effects of third world instability will soon lick at the edges of the western world as pirate gangs mount smash-and-grab raids on holidaymakers".

(Extracted from a presentation given at the United Services Institute).

Could be the pirates might start closer to home, looting the expensive villas of rich infidels.

Sounds like scaremongering, but we live in a very unstable world. 5 star luxury resorts might look a tempting target to people living in third world poverty.

Wow......I was expecting to pay a premium but wasn't expecting €400k - assuming they are of a similar spec to the Saidia villas. Hopefully they will have reasonably priced appartments.

Once again, please let me know as soon as you hear anything.

Thanks.

Hi Dogbox

You can no longer buy a marina berth for £10,000 I just got the latest prices and they are €71,339.45 plus 20% tax on top of that for an 18m berth which is not so cheap after all.

Pity, I would have taken one for £10,000 but at £48,000 its like buying another property.

Hi Fabs,

As an example the JDF villas are starting at 260,000€ for a villa that is 145sqm on a plot of about 350 - 450sqm and they are about to release 24 Villas at 350 - 400sqm on plots of 1000sqm + for 750,000€

Even if you took the plot away on both and just looked at the price per sqm on living area alone then Saidia is about an average of 1834.05€ per sqm compared to 1000€ per sqm in Port - Lixus.

Hopefully this same kind of figure would be applicable to the apartments. I have just bashed out some figures on my calculator and came up with about £78,000 for an apartment of the same sqm as Jardin de Fleur.

Please bare in mind this is only guess work and dont take this figure to be true.

Thanks Andy for your analysis.

Assuming the Port Lixus villas are around 400sqm, €400k is reasonable. I am looking for an appt and approx £80k is what I would expect to pay. Look forward to hearing some more details as and when.

Cheers.

Same bad news for everyone on Port - Lixus. I have just been told that there will be no apartments on the first phase only villas. This info has come direct from Thomas and Piron via our Business Development Manager.

Does anyone know of any sites where I can see finihed developments by the builders of Le Jardin de Fleur? I can't find anything from going onto Property Logic website.

You won't. LJDF is their first project apparently.

Hi fabs and everyone else,

Not much being said at the moment and I know the Port - Lixus info probably wasnt what everyone wanted to hear but if any of you are interested in the Emaar projects then hopefully we might have some news very soon.

All i can give you at the moment is a website where you can see an overview of there 5 projects so check out http://www.emaar.com/morocco/

Some of you may have already seen it but if not its worth a look.

Hope this helps

I am also in La Saidia this friday so will i will take some new pictures for you all.

Andy

Andy

Im interested to find out about a small commercial unit within the site.
I have spoken to Fadesa direct about the same subject.

Is this your bag?

I will make a couple of calls and get back to you ASAP.

Watch this space!!!!!

Hi Dog Box

I have just been given a direct contact number by Property Logic for the lady to talk to with Fadesa in Morocco.

I will give her a call tomorrow and let you know how i get on.

Andy

Hi Dig Box,

The info that i have is as follows. Commercial units are available and they are rental / lease only at about 16 euros per sqm per month. Thats all they would tell me at the moment and have said that they would need to know more as to what kind of store you want to put there and what size you need + they prefer franchises.

Hope this helps

Andy

Cheers

Ive heard the same. They want big international brands. Ah well, its good to know the developers are taking such pains to establish this as a premier resort.

You are so right, i am also glad that they are not just letting anyone take units there. This is just another factor in making La Saidia an exclusive resort.

Hi Dog Box,

I just got a personal message from you today regarding Marina births that we talked about some time ago at the time i posted the following reply.

Both Jardin de Fleur and Oasis are getting their marina births from Fadesa so if you contact them directly you might have a better chance of geting one. It might be that the agent you have been dealing with is only contacting JDF who only have 10m births left.

I dont know if this was an old message that has just come through but drop me a pm if you have any questions.

Just a bit of a general update for everyone, I have just got the first artist impressions on the Kerzner project at Mazagan which i have attached to this posting.

Also I was in La Saidia on Friday and was quite impressed as i have not been there for a few weeks. So here is a bit of an update....The King was visiting the site on the Saturday so there was lots of activity everywhere from Oujda airport all the way to Saidia. In the villages along the route they were painting everything from curbstones, walls and even the bottoms of the trees and generally having a really good tidy up. In the resort itself they have now started construction on 4 of the hotels and both the Barcelo hotel and the Magnum projects are well under way about 60 / 70% of the rough construction completed. The clubhouse for the golf course in phase 1 and the marina club are both taking shape. Also the Medina at the front of the comercial centre is well under way and from what i have been told the plan is that you will walk along the seafront towards the marina and then enter the Medina through a Moroccan archway which all sounds really nice. They have also started work on the bars and restaurants that will be alongside the marina, but this has only just begun.

Keep an eye on www.lejardindefleur.com as they will be launching a webcam within the next couple of weeks that will be situated on top of the Fadesa building. The great thing is that you will be able to control the camera and be able to see not just the progress of JDF but also other parts of the project.

Hope this helps.

Andy[attachmentid=3584][attachmentid=3585][attachmentid=3586][attachmentid=3587]

Thanks for the update Andy. Dogbox what did you do about the marina berth?

Im torn between the berth, another property in Saidia (a cheap appartment this time) or just investing in the shares of SPEYMILL DEUTSCHE IMMOBILIEN / other shares investing in German real estate!!!!!!!!!!

Re the berth, Im trying to find out how values increase say in 3 years despite the fact the initial 20 year lease will only have 17 years left??

Why ??

So you can sell and run ??

Hi Big Log,

Why else would he ask the question hahahahaha

Many thanks for that Andy, good to hear the Magnum apartments are coming on.

Sheila

So basically no long-term intention.

Just cut and run, and sod the local economy.

How very noble.

Hi Big Log,

First of all i am glad to see that yourself and others are still coming to the forum as it seemed to go quite for a little while, also unlike other chat sites this one seems to be keeping a level head about it and we are able to have an adult conversation with each other and post genuine views and opinions.

I didnt mean to sound as though i agreed with what Dog Box asked. It is just that if someone asked me that question then it would suggest that their intention was to sell it on after a couple of years.

I also think that it doesnt matter where in the World people buy, there will always be people that are buying for an investment to then flip it and move on.

Please put this into context though as this is the only posting on this forum that i have ever seen the question asked and to be honest i dont think that one person who wants to buy a marina birth and look at it as a quick / short term investment will have a dramatic effect on the local economy.

I think that in 3 years time there will be plenty of end user clients that would love to take on a marina birth that didnt have the opportunity, confidence or forsight to buy one now and that is why they will then pay a higher premium for that product, he also would have to offer it to Fadesa first who are going to be setting the minimum sales price anyway.

If you asked the question to everyone who has bought in La Saidia then i would guess that at least 80% of them if not more at this current moment in time will be looking to sell at some point in the future. It could be 3 years, 5 years, 10 years or even 20 but they will be looking to sell on.

The majority of people who buy abroad are not looking for a relocation they are either looking for a holiday home, rental property or pure investment.


Also please find attached some pictures from last Friday

Good to chat with you Big Log

Andy

[attachmentid=3593][attachmentid=3592][attachmentid=3591][attachmentid=3594]

Hi Andy,

I don't believe that Dogbox is looking just to 'flip' the Marina. I'd guess that the villa will go as well.

So, I don't agree or see how this will aid the local economy one jot.

It is a well known phenomenon in the UK that outsiders flock to towns they have no real intentions of living in other than a couple of weeks a year and therefore pricing out the locals.

Why oh why must we British export this greed ??

From a very early age, I've had a very hard time accepting this. And some 20+ years later, still refuse to play this game.

I would also suspect, knowing Morocco the way I do, that there could be a certain amount of legislature in place to curb this type of Speculation as this has been seen in Marrakech.

Not at all!

The locals in Saidia are currently being retrained. There are free courses for everything from buiding management, maintenance, horticulture, golf course maintenance, chefs, security, hotel staff (for the 8 large hotels) etc.

Others are gearing up thier business's in the Town of Saidia its - self. The ripple will affect local farmers, fishermen and of course the value of property and land owned by locals.

The fact some investors buy for the short term is irrelevant. Trade is the lifeblood and the best welfare programme available.

I may hold longterm but its always wise to know your exit route options in advance.

Traditional socialist notions of pouring aid into undeveloped parts of the world has produced no sustainable benefits. Africa is today poorer than it was 10 years ago!!!!!!!

Trade and commernce is the key. This is the only lasting way locals can empower thier lives and carve a sustaible lifestyle and to free themselves of aid dependancy.

Only a fool stuck in old fashioned 1970s white middle class thinking, will fail to realise the lot of Moroccans will vastly improve as a result of all this development.

And ONLY a greedy fool stuck in the property hype groove will fail to realise that Moroccan's lives won't improve just because you've out-priced them out of their local market, in many ways, and not just in property.

How do you know the price of (e.g.) local produce will remain the same historically once you've arrived ? Could it not go up ridiculously due to the new local resident's deeper pockets ?? What, do farmers just grow more do they ?

And the other land owned by the locals, is mostly owned by the already affluent - so they'll only get richer. And what will they do ?? Give the poor ones a leg-up ?? No, make sure they *never* get up !

I didn't say pouring in Aid was the answer. Where did I say that ?

Where is YOUR BUSINESS MODEL that YOU are making. By buying a holiday home ?

And then what, flogging it off to the next Mug.

Locals learning to carry your Golf clubs will always remain at the bottom of society, don't kid yourself of that Dogbox.

Hi Big Log.
I understand your standpoint and until recently my stance would have been somewhere between yours and that of DogBox. But I have found my views changing. Take this comparison - not an ideal comparison, but I'm sure you'll get my point:

I've been to Estonia twice in last few months. Their economy is doing well and both property & land are appreciating at a very high rate. There are a lot of Estonians that can see how to make money if they had £30k or so to start with, but they simply don't have that kind of money. (Average salary is about £5k p.a. Very low considering prices of new build property there.) They have been priced out of their local property market - as will be happening in Saidia. Yet they don't complain. Things are much better for them now than before. Many of them remember what it was like to not have food or a roof over their heads from the Soviet era. They would not change back. So while there are the negatives you have mentioned, the benefits can outweigh them. That's my view anyway - more akin to views of Dogbox and others.

Its certainly encouraging to here about courses designed to help locals grasp the opportunities that will come thier way.

I live in Morocco by the way.

Tell that to the people of Corfu for example. The average person is vastly better off in financial terms than they were pre - tourism.

How about Bali? Do you really suggest the locals have not benefited?

What alternative plan to suggest to inflict on the Morocanns that have endured decades of poverty??




I noticed you characterised the lot of Moroccans as 'golf bag carriers'. What about the local galleries and artists? How about the local Bank that need to employ more locals to service the much greater flow of money form Taxis and every other local business?

How about local builders being commisioned to extend locally owner restaraunts?

Then there will be all the local municipal services that need to expand to cope with a vast increase in road and other infrastructure useage.

The local electrician needed for all the electric signs. Tour guides to the desert. Ski challets and ski instructors in the nearby mountains.

Teachers needed for the influx of families

What is your alternative plan please given the poverty over the last few decades?

Dogbox,

Just answer this question.

You've *never* been to Morocco.

Am I right or am I wrong ??

When ? Where ? How often ?

My freind who is also purchasing in Saidia went a couple of weeks back and made a DVD of the visit. He is my eyes and ears.

My favorite hotel group is the 'Aman' chain. They opened in Morocco recently. They have a habit of spotting new trends before anyone else.

Something interesting is going on which sets Morocco apart; Unlike say Tunisia or Bulgaria or Greece or Egypt, from the outset most of the tourism investment is by large up market providers. This is highly unusual. Morocco represents a unique proposition.

Ah ! So there we have it.

Why is it Dogbox that you give me the impression that you can't admit to the word 'no' - that you've never, ever visited this country that you are hyping so much and telling everyone how beautiful it is ??!

Ho hum. okay - I think I'll just watch this all unfold.

In fact, I don't really know why I'm bothering.

You and I can touch base in 3 years time. And we'll see when you try to sell your villa and berth.

BTW, off topic, I see people on the Channel4 Forums are now citing bubbles bursting in Dubai. Now, how did I know that'd happen.........??

Finally, Dogbox, your string of predictions (that used to adorn your signature but you've taken off for some strange reason) - in particular the one about the FTSE hitting 6500 by the end of 2006 is looking a little off target. You seemed very proud of these predictions. Any reason why you took those predictions away ??

The FTSE prediction is looking shakey. The 'prices to rise by 8 - 10% by summer end' looks on though.

Dubai - anyone with a brain has been avoiding Dubai for about 4 years.

Again Im in good company if Saidia doesnt work out. Here's just a few of the companies investing on the iste, Hilton, Barcello, Fadesa (Spains 2nd biggest), Armani, Channel, Boss, Marie Eaux, Mango, Budha Bars, Aparthotels. The 2 supermarkets are a big Spannish chain called 'Carrefour' - I guess they expect a decent return and have done thier homework.

Other investments include Emaar (worlds biggest dev), the people (forget the name) behind Sun City and the One and Only brand, Ryan air and many more.
But hey, what do they know!

The world changes you know, Malaysia was third world 40 years ago. Now its the 16th richest.
Negative people said Ireland would remain the basket case of Europe as recently as 8 years ago!

Morocco has 6 Government sanctioned sites within Plan Azur. Saidia is the pinnacle dvelopment and will certainly become a world renowned destination.


EDIT TO ADD; You have lots to say on which investments you consider bad.
Id be interested to know which you would consider a good home for your hard earned?