As some of u know I recently bought in Berlin.
My next target is Morocco, here's why:

* No income Tax on the rent (double Taxation agreement applies so no UK Tax will apply) - note I am only looking at high quality property within a low rise, low density mega resort (classy though) with 3 18 hole golf courses, hospital, equestrian centre, polo pitch, water parks, gucci and other leading retailers on sight, 800 berth marina, and my property has a 60 year mooring berth (very rare) all fully managed including the rent side, forested green area, full security, restaurants, cinemas, Olympic pools, bowling alley, shopping centre - all very tastefuly done in Moroccon style by UK and Spanish builders - so renting will be easy).

*Capital Gains Taxed above £60k @ 20% in first 5 years. Between 5 - 10 years its 10%. After 10 years its 0.

*The King has announced 'plan Azur', which aims to have Morocco become a premier destination by 2010.

*Huge developments - Dubai style are underway backed by none other than Emaar Properties

*An 8km tunnel will link Gibralter to Tangiers by 2008

*The 'stars' are moving in. The Beckhams, Jude Law and Brad Pitt have recently bought - this is important, it sets the trends.

*An 'open skies' agreement has been signed and the Government guarantee world class airport upgrades by 2010.

*Ryan Air have announced flights to beginn by this summer

*White sand, huge beaches so much more attractive than the black sand Canary Islands and over 1 hour clser.

*'Exotic, yet close'

*Huge infrastructure improvements underway. The Americans are investing billions in new ports.

*Its just a hop from Spain BUT PRICES UP TO 10 X LOWER

*Im buying off - plan yet only part with 40%. The balance in 2009, yet I can sell on at any point. So my 40% leveredges me into 100% exposure to the market

Once the public begin holidaying here 'en mass' the stampede will begin. IT WILL HAPPEN, JUST LIKE MEXICO HAS (and Mexico is much farther away).

Spain is yesterdays news and Morocco is almost as close.

I think Im about to sign up for a villa - www.lejardindefleur.com (more MEW Im afraid). Within the most prestigious development - Saidia. £180k right on an 18 hole Golf course (3 to choose), marina and u get 60 year mooring rights for £10k!!!!!!!
Olympic pools, gated community, cinema, polo, equestrian centre, on the beach(6 km white sand), backed by snow capped mountains, forested area, plentiful water from mountains, on site Swiss rental company.
Villa has own pool. Fully serviced. Free membership to the club house. £180K!!!!! Totally safe gated development, all low rise, hospital on site.
Gucci and many others already purchased the shops surrounding the Marina - I wonder why?
The same at La Manga in Spain would be £1m +.

Rent for £4000 per week or more once site becomes well known. £60 per month maintenance charge includes pool maintenance and gardener. I think it will rent all year given the Golf and huge variety of quality facilities and year round climate. But even if it only rents for say 35 weeks and even if I only get say £1500 per week (which wont happen), the yield is still exceptionally high.

The bit I really like is only having to part with 40% for 3 years. Ok no yield on the 40% so I loose say £3600 pa interest, but I genuinely expect the value to more than double over 3 years. I look at property all over the world and have found nothing of this quality for the price this close to home. Places such as Bulgaria are way less important given the short season and lack of feel good sun factor.

Villas come fully furnished right down to tea spoons.

What do you think of Egypt? any thoughts?

Seems cheap, but what impresses me about Morocco is the combination of fantastic beaches, 3 hour flights and a Government heel bent on putting everything in place to ensure it becomes a world class tourism market, for example no income Tax on rents coupled with huge infrastructure investment to include a tunnel being built between Gibralter and Tangier.
Also many UK agents are selling the place which is a sure sign of market momentum.

To really make a decent investment I suggest the Mediterrania Saidia site. It offers total security and luxury, unlike the other smaller out on a limb sites. This will be crucial to rental markets. You can buy a marina berth for £10000 on a 60 year lease, I suspect the rental return on this alone will be significant.

Gucci, Armani and Budha Bars have all aquired commercial premisses on this site - that in itself will create hype and expectation. There are appartments from about £70000, these will become golddust within 5 years.

always chasing the next big thing and everyone is always right...

Just like Dubai is findoing out....

Good luck mate.

I had the misfortune to visit Morocco in 1983.It was the worst place I have ever visited in my life.Tangiers is like some biblical hellhole.
Property may be cheap,but with good reason.The only person you will be selling to is someone more stupid than yourself.
Stick with Berlin.I can't believe you've bought everything there yet.

Bit bearish old boy.

You know Aman hotels (one of the worlds most prestigious) have one in Morocco and charge thousands per week. Similarly I am buying into a large secure exclusive Marina golf resort just a hop from Spain. As such I fully expect to make very substantial capital gain and have the option of letting for thousands per week.

I understand there is a lot of poverty in Morocco. I also understand people pay millions for appartments in New Delhi despite the poverty and that people invested in Ireland 10 years ago despite the war.
Things have a habit of changing.
Some seem to want investments that have a 'green light for go' attatched, but of course it doesnt work that way. The point is to get there before the crowd when the light is on amber. Its all about understanding the future vision just as those that bought into Dubai 10 years ago did - when everyone else 'waited for the green light by which time they were too late'.

Remember the name 'Meditarrnia Saidia'.

Hi Dogbox

Suggest you read the latest Economist this week which has a very informative article on Morocco:

http://www.economist.com/world/africa/disp...tory_id=6772296

Sounds far too risky a place to me - too much depends on the attitude of an absolute monarch in a country with extreme poverty.

I think Bulgaria (where I have bought some holiday property) is a better and safer bet than Morocco (also a lot cheaper! - I bought for £60k a 2 bed apartment on a beach between 2 golf courses). I also think Germany is the place to go for pure investment which is what you have already done.

People said Dubai was too risky for similar reasons. Those who got in early turned the real profits and this development is far classier and more attractive.

You need to understand the complex I am buying on is like almost nothing else in the world, what with 3 Golf courses, polo lawns, YEAR ROUND SUN (its 70 in Decemeber), 800 berth marina, vast landscaped grounds, leading designer shops around the marina, a glass lighthouse with 4 helipads and restaurants, 8 x 5 star and 2 x 7 star hotels, all no more than 3 stories high (except the lighthouse), a small athletics stadium, Golds gym, a 9km prominade, 17 floating beach clubs, 2 tropical parks, a small football stadium, 20 high class restaurants, butler serviced property, fully maintained, the best fittings and furnishings money can buy (all included in price), on site Swiss lettings company, benefit from worldwide marketing (the hotels will see to that), a white sand beach etc etc.

My villa is set into the golf course, on an island and will rent for c£4000 per week plus the marina birth will rent on its own as marina births in the Med are vastly under supplied.

No income Tax very low capital gains tax.

This is a world away from amateur Bulgaria which I explored in detail. I know people who cant let thier property in Bulgaria expecially in winter and they are frustrated at having to keep company accounts for any letting they do!

Morocco is just 8km from Gibralter and a tunnel will link the two by 2007.

The second largest Spannish developer (Fadessa) is managing the project, and the Moroccon King insists only only the highest quality building standards and fittings within this particular site.

This is the new Cote D' Azur. Ignore at your cost.

Hi Dogbox

I think you are being very optimistic that you will achieve £4000 a week in rent! I think you mean £400 a week, but even this could prove ambitious. How do you base this figure on?

I agree that Morocco is a year round destination - but you could argue that summer temperatures in July and August are too hot, especially to play golf in.

Morocco is a significantly poorer country than Bulgaria (GDP per capita is about $9000 for Bulgaria, but only $4300 in Morocco - thats poorer than Albania!). Bulgaria is yet to have proper budget airlines - but this is inevitable, and of course its guaranteed EU membership will make it a safer place to invest (with EU standard safeguards) and mean significant improvements to its infrastructure.

I see great growth potential in Bulgaria regarding golf. I am buying in an area where there are 3 professional golf courses being constructed, designed by Gary Player and Ian Woosnam - so hardly amatueur developments! All the courses are by the coast which has been largely unspolit by development and on stunning cliffs. Golf will also extend the season to 8 or 9 months. In the same way Bulgaria is seen as a budget destination for a beach holiday and now skiing - it could quickly become a cheap place to play golf by the coast on stunning courses.

I am not in it for rental anyway - more capital growth. Only time will tell.

With Morocco there are too many uncertainties because it is not democratic with a highly dubious legal system and poor human rights. There is also a security risk there as well. Also if the King wants to make it such a huge tourist destination, there is a risk that the wholeplace could become a building site with lots and lots of development. So the same problems that now face parts of Bulgaria regarding overdevelopment, difficulties for resale and poor rental will blight Morocco as well. Also, what happens if the next King changes his mind and decides he doesnt want any further development or doesnt like foreigners in his country? Even this King can change his mind - The economist article points to an education law which was passed but never implemented.

Anyway, just my thoughts....good luck!

£4000, not £400. Ive seen villas (right on the fairways as mine is) for £27000 per week. Villas in South East Menorca (where I go often) are typically £1500 per week for a fairly basic villa not on Golf.
Im actually only assuming I will get £1000 per week to be on the safe side, but like you Im attracted more by capital growth. The scale and quality nof the developmet has to be seen to be beleived. As I say international designer brands have bought up shops in the Marina and include Armani, Gucci, Harrods, Boss and Budha Bars as well as Mango, Zara and Mari Eaux.

What will also draw in the money crowd is the 800 berth ultra modern marina, polo lawns and just the whole tone of the place. Some of the worlds most prestigious hotel chains have bought the low rise hotels being built upon the site.

The summer temperatures will not deter people as the immense grounds are completely wooded and covered with lakes, plus right on the coast with cooling summer breezes. Many resorts in the world have as hot climates. Snow capped mountains just behind offer year round water supply.

Two budget airlines, Ryan air and Easy jet are beginning flights (into Oujda) this summer. The 8km tunnel from Spain opens 2007. The Emaar group (behind Dubai) are investing £19.1 billion - think about that sum, these people dont invest such sums on a whim.

This particular development is self contained and no futher developmet is permitted within 20 miles each side.

This is to be a magnate for the rich and famous.

Good luck with Bulgaria, but it just didnt appeal to me as I think resale is difficult (many internet forums descibe difficulty reselling in Bulgaria). Your particular development sounds as though it should be ok given the Golf.

I really urge you to look at Morocco. The development is called Mediterranea Saidia. The villas are within this site and are called 'Le Jarin De Fleur'. There are also appartments.

It wont surprise me if the villas (£180k inc pool and a/c and fully fitten even down to TV and garen furniture with massive roof gardens) fetch £1m in 10 years time as supply is limited to just a few hundred on this huge site. Once the luxury yatchs start pulling in, the money arrives.

I am going in early so the prices reflect this.

Think Dubai without the chintz and tacky gold chandeliers. Think Cote D Azur but with a longer season and NO rough neighbourhoods.

Sounds too good to be true to me. I just don't buy it. I'm not saying that you shouldnt invest in Morocco and have a nice holiday home, but to expect the kind of returns you are stating is way over the top. It is all hype probably taken from the sales brochure for the development you are talking about.

You cannot compare what has happened in Dubai to what might happen in Morocco. Again look at the facts. The GDP per capita in the United Arab Emirates is $29,100 (about the same as Germany) ie about 7 times more wealthy than Morocco.

In the next 6 years, 12billion euros is to be invested into Bulgaria by the EU to improve infrastructure. Many other foreign companies are investing there too as well as the US which is investing because of military bases being planned in the country. There is far more Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) pouring into Bulgaria than Morocco. Although I could only find 2003 figures for this, Bulgaria was ranked 23rd in the world, with Morocco ranked at 32. In other words Bulgaria will become more wealthy far more quickly than Morocco.

You say it will be a magnet for the rich and famous. Yet you then say that Ryanair and Easyjet are going to fly there. This latter development is evidence that it will attract budget conscious travellers - the sort of people that will certainly not want to pay £4000 (or even £1000) per week to stay in your villa having paid for their £50 rtn flight with easyjet.

And yes, the resale market in Bulgaria is very underdeveloped. But it is no difference to Morocco - everyone is going to want off plan because there will be so many developments. So dont bank on making that £1m in 10 years just yet!

Have you actually visited Morocco? (I havent) There are deluxe golf developments springing up everywhere - Turkey, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Cape Verde, probably even Egypt I expect (which seems very similar to me to Morocco). So lots of supply....it will be interesting to see if any of these countries do actually make the grade and establish themselves properly in the golf market. But I think its fair enough to assume that professional golfers will always prefer the courses in Spain and Portugal, and these other destinations will always be second choice.

You are assuming first of all smilie that Bulgaria will get into the EU. That, as they say, is not all over until the rotund female sings...

Even assuming they do, Bulgaria's enrichment depends on how well they tackle the problem of organised crime and it's murky links with the political world. whether the money flowing into BG will be used to good effect, or whether it will be frittered away into various bank accounts in dodgy locations remains to be seen.

Very few Brits understand how the country works. There is no comparison with places such as Poland, Czech republic or the Baltic states. BG is controlled by the Communist old guard, who morphed themselves into 'businessmen' and whose influence pervades all aspects of society.It also has a burgeoning ultra right-wing faction who are basically thugs. As per our own BNP, but far more dangerous.

Very few Bulgarian people see any hope for self advancement other than leaving the country.

Hi mpd

Bulgaria's entry into the EU may be delayed by one year but thats it. It will definitely be joining.

And yes - organised crime is a huge problem in Bulgaria. Its the EU's main concern. WHich is why loads of emphasis is being placed on it to get things changed. I'm sure it will take many years to fix, but I think you have to get it into context. Corruption is rife in many countries. Just look at this world ranking of corruption by country:

http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm

Bulgaria is ranked 47th. Compare this to Italy at 32, and Czech Republic at 39. Poland is ranked at 59 and Morocco (for comparison) is 67th.

I never said you can compare Bulgaria to the likes of Czech Republic or the Baltic States. They are significantly more advanced.

And yes - lots of young Bulgarians want to leave (at least temporaily) to earn a decent living. The same can also be said with boat loads of Moroccans arriving in Spain trying to escape the extremes of poverty there.

At least Bulgaria is a newly established democracy (with teething problems I agree). This fares better for the future than an absolute monarch in Morocco.

Are you sure you've done enough research, dogbox?

There's no tunnel
(unless you're digging one we don't know about.If you are then it's worth noting that Spain and Morocco are 28k apart)

The Spanish and Moroccan Governments are looking at the possibility of building a tunnel.The report is due out in 2008

http://www.afrol.com/articles/10704

Dogbox, I can't take you seriously any more. There is not going to be a tunnel between Gibraltar and Morocco in 2007. You are dreaming. There have been nothing more than talks and there is no funding. And where did you get this idea about Ryanair flying to Morocco? I can't find it on their website.

Sounds great in theory but most wealthy types I know who like to stay in expensive hotels, golf and buy Gucci won't fly Ryan Air and will wait till a higher end airline goes there.

GDP - is irrelevant, Im investing in an ultra prestigious gated development with a huge marina.
Many parts of the world have had a property boom yet low GDP. Ireland (of course much higher GDP than Morocco) THE BEARS SAID IN 1995 could not have a significant property boom as GDP was much lower than the rest of UK yet the boom as been significant.

Bulgaria - the only bit I seriously considered was Sofia. The rents on the coast wont stack up for many years to come given the short season and huge overhype and over supply.

As for budget flights I assure you plenty of well off people use them to get to Spain etc. Afterall its only a short flight. Also just because the budget airlines are comming doesnt mean the non - budget ones wont.
I use budget airlines as much as I can - why throw money away for a 3 hour flight?

You say everyone will want off - plan, but the point is this is a very upscale development with a limited number of properties that will attract 500,000 visitors p/a (many will stay at the 5 and 7 star hotels). So like any exclusive enclave, once the stock is sold thats it, no more supply. Sure in other parts of Morocco there is development of a 'standard' nature but these areas wont attract the same clientell as Saidia. As such the Saidia client'el will push up prices on the limited supply of property (especially the few huindred villas).

You say 'golf developments are springing up everywhere'. Not like this one. For a start there is no bargain bucket property. There is a huge world class marina being built - marinas are in v short supply, especially on this scale. Within the walls are many leading retailers and bars including Gucci etc etc. Heliports, a small hospital, 3 x 18 hole golf courses, small athletics and also football stadiums, polo pitch, massive spa, cinemas, 1000 seat conference centre.

And remember the 8 world class hotels will be pulling in the punters and effectively marketing the site (with my villa in it) 365 days per year.

If you can show me another development like this where I can aquire a villa for £190000 (60% paid in 3 years time) just 3 hours from UK with year round climate - LET ME KNOW.

All I ask is you remember this debate in a few years time. Remember 'Saidia'. The tunnel keeps getting delayed but its not important, just icing on the cake.

I fully expect Morocco to become a key tourist destination by 2010.

Only a year ago, 99% of people said I was wrong to invest in Berlin. They said it would never happen as Germans dont like buying and unemployment is v high.
I have no proof but I can tell you that prices have increased about 20% in the last 12 months according to my contacts over there - time will tell.

I also ask u to keep in mind people in the 1970s said Spain would never take off due to poor infrastructure and crooked local officials.

Ireland we were told was a non - starter due to the dispute.

Croatia people said wouldnt happen due to corrupt system and instability, yet prices have rocketed since 1997.

Its all about seeing beyond the obvious and way beyond the news papers.



There are 8 luxury low rise hotels being built on the site.

'Golf & Gucci' do fly Ryan Air I promise you that. Many wealthy people I know use low cost airlines for both skiing and Golf. A few people we know own villas in Spain - they always fly low cost.

The resort is costing billions (yet done in a low key, 'green' non chintzy way). Spains second biggest developer 'Fadessa' are the head developer. I think they will have done thier homework. THEY RECOGNISE THE POTENTIAL OF MOROCCO.

Many renowned retailers have put thier name to the devlopment by buying units around the mairna including Gucci and Armani. I suspect they know what they are doing.

Sound interesting.Maybe I'll drive over and take a look.

Hi DB

Just for info, the double taxation agreement doesn't mean that you won't have to pay tax in the UK, it's just that any tax you do pay in Morocco will be offset against your liability to UK tax. Any income from overseas is liable for tax in UK if you are UK resident, so if it is 0% there, it just means you will end up paying the difference in the UK unfortunately

That is of course unless you aren't UK resident or don't declare...

i'd be interested to hear any opinions regarding the biggest uncertainty i see regarding investing in Morocco which is the fact that it is a 98% Muslim country. If the current instability between the Christian & Muslim religions escalates this could impact on a development like this.

I considered this and came to the conclusion that even if there was trouble, people soon tend to forget and life goes on and in any event rich Moroccans will be drawn to this outstanding development just a rich people in poor troubled regions will happily part with large sums for the right property in the premier locations.

People investing in Ireland in the mid nineties faced a similar dilema, the troubles were far from over at that time.

Dubai prices have rocketed despite middle eastern tensions.

People predicted carnage on a grand scale on Turkish beaches but it didnt happen.

I find with any investment there is always potential downside, but the upside for me far outweighed this.
A further plus for Morocco is the fact the British property selling infrastructure is becomming heavily involved, and being so close to Spain that infrastructure is largely in place already so it is inevitable Morocco will become a key target for Brittish money on a scale that will easily surpass markets such as Bulgaria.

Hi dogbox

I'm with you on this one,i've got a spare 40k in about 4 weeks when my house sale goes through
and have decided its worth a punt after all even if prices do not go up and you only get 12 grand a year from it, its still comparable to the crap yields you would get over here,and would pay for itself but i'd have a lovely 4 bed villa for the winter
so i've been looking at the various agents offering this deal and am about to contact one
can you let me know who you went with?
I've decided to get the hibiscus villa,
by the way do you know what the interest rates will be on the 60%mortgages?

many thanks

This development was advertised in the national press yesterday, as part of a full page spread on Morocco in the Daily Mail. One agency was marketing 30 days private usage, and a 2.5% rental guarantee in year 1, & 3% in year 2........which seems very low compared to the types of rentals being forecast. on a £200k villa you'd be looking at just a £5k rental return!

The reason I wouldn'y buy there, is because I've never met anyone who wants to go back there.I went in 1983, and they had all year round weather then!
It's impossible to walk around as you are constantly hassled by the locals, and I mean constantly!
So that means you're staying on the complex.
Maybe Morocco will succeed in building an oasis in the desert, they managed it in Nevada, but buying this early is risky.
Of course that means the rewards will be greater if you are right, so good luck!!

However, I shan't be joining you as an investor nor as a holiday maker.

Hi dogbox and the rest of the gang,

I must first say that i have read many forums over the past 6 years of investing but this is by far the best and most interesting.

I have not got time to write for long but all i will say is that dogbox is correct about morocco now is the time to invest before the tunnel gets approved.

I can say this for sure being a moroccan who lives in london and visits Morocco very often spanish buyers and companies are flocking to morocco every day buying up cheap property.


Morocco Overview .


For Westerners, Morocco holds an immediate and enduring fascination. Though just an hour's ride on the ferry from Spain, it seems at once very far from Europe, with a culture that is almost wholly unfamiliar. Throughout the country, despite the years of French and Spanish colonial rule and the presence of modern and cosmopolitan cities like Rabat and Casablanca, a more distant past constantly makes its presence felt. Fes, perhaps the most beautiful of all Arab cities, maintains a life still rooted in medieval times, when a Moroccan empire stretched from Senegal to northern Spain, while in the mountains of the Atlas and the Rif, it's still possible to draw up tribal maps of the Berber population. As a backdrop to all this, the country's physical make-up is also extraordinary:
from a Mediterranean coast, through four maintain ranges, to the empty sand and scrub of the Sahara.

In recent years the worst of the hustlers have been cleared off the streets (anyone who visited in the early 1990s will be amazed at the change) and the unofficial guides you encounter are fewer and more discreet.


Why Morocco - Financial

Morocco offers additional benefits from a financial standpoint which makes it a highly attractive
prospect for purchasers:

Low property taxes
Safe Investment - Notary supervised property registration similar to France/Spain
Easy repatriation of investment should you re-sell in the future
Only 20% tax on any capital gains
Property market booming - average rises of 15% per year achievable
Rental occupancy reaching 85% most years

Why Morocco - The high life

Anyone mixing in celebrity circles will tell you that Morocco is considered one of the most fashionable retreats
for the rich and famous, with an "inner circle" of over 700 internationally recognised celebrities frequenting the
country on a regular basis.
Famous home-owners in Morocco:

Yves Saint Laurent
Malcolm Forbes
Elizabeth Taylor
P Diddy
Barbara Hutton
The Rolling Stones
Jean Paul Gaultier
Richard Branson
The Beckhams

Climate

Nothern Morocco may just have the ideal climate. Temperatures are consistently mild all through the year,
rarely surpassing 30ºC/86ºF in summer months. Lows tend not to drop below a minimum of 10ºC/50ºF.

On warm days one can rely on a steady, comfortable sea breeze. Rainfall averages 150mm (6 inches) per
month - mostly during the winter season. Morocco (like Spain) has more than 330 days of sun annually.

Season Average Temperature
Spring 17ºC - 63ºF
Summer 23ºC - 74ºF
Autumn 20ºC - 68ºF
Winter 15ºC - 60ºF

Hope this helps guys and dogbox you are on to somthing for sure.

Thanks for your input, morocshock. Are you sure it's only an hour? Why bother building a tunnel?

Dogbox what do you think of this in morocco

THE PARADISE BEACH & GOLF RESORT IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TOURISTIC DEVELOPMENTS IN NORTHERN MOROCCO. PHASE 1 WILL HAVE 500 LOW-RISE APARTMENTS AND TWO HUNDRED 3 BED 2 BATH DETACHED VILLAS ALL WITH INDIVIDUAL SWIMMING POOLS.

AN 18 HOLE GOLF COURSE WILL BE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT. THE APARTMENTS & VILLAS WILL BE CONSTRUCTED ON GENTLY SLOPING LAND - THUS GIVING MOST PROPERTIES AT PARADISE BEACH & GOLF RESORT VIEWS TO THE SEA.

THE SITE IS IN AN AREA OF GREAT NATURAL BEAUTY AND BORDERS THE FORET DIPLOMATIQUE. A STROLL AROUND THE GOLF COURSE ACCESSES A VIRGIN BEACH OF GOLDEN SANDS. JUST 15 MINUTES DRIVE FROM TANGIERS AND THE AIRPORT IN ONE DIRECTION AND 15 MINUTES OR SO IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION TO THE PRETTY FISHING VILLAGE OF ASILAH.

Full Description: PARADISE BEACH & GOLF RESORT PRE-LAUNCH OFFER
1 bed apartments, approx 70 m² including terrace
607.750 Dirhams (£38,465 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £15,386 balance by mortgage.

2 bed/2 bath ground floor apartments, approx 90 m² including terrace
828.750 Dirhams (£52,452 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £20,981 balance by mortgage.

2 bed/2 bath penthouse apartments, approx 90 m² including terrace, plus roof terrace
994.500 Dirhams (£62,943 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £25,177 balance by mortgage.

3 bed/2 bath penthouse apartments, approx 116 m² including terrace, plus roof terrace
1,326.000 Dirhams (£83,924 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £33,570 balance by mortgage.

Apartments will be in small blocks, 2 storeys high. Ground floor apartments, plus first floor penthouses with access to a flat rooftop sun terrace.
3 bed/2 bath detached villas with private pool (approx 7mx3m)
approx 135 m² including terrace plus 400 m² plot
2,210.000 Dirhams (£139,873 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £55,949 balance by mortgage.

I bought 2 bed 2 bath from a Moroccan company based in london called property borders.

Hi muttley,

Yes in fact if you go tariffa spain to tangier on fast ferry it only takes 35 mins.

Hello freeman that sounds like a very good investment i will look at that myself.

Speak soon chaps off to bed now

28km in 35 minutes. I'm impressed. I think I would like to invest in the ferry company!

Im going for Hibiscus also, as is a freind! That way the roof solarium should get sun for much of the day even in winter.

Went through a rubbish agent called Superior world wide.
Now dealing direct with developer - very helpful and accomodating.

This E/A is very very helpful and Id wished we had reserved via him info - @intracasa.com

deal with Jann (we didnt resrve via him as he wasnt available at the time). Say Mr Butler sent you.


I understand the interest rate is currently around 5.7% on a non - status mortgage. I suspect competition will cause rates to drop. .






Mutt as I keep saying, this developement is a huge enclave. Most guests will remian on - site most if not all the time.

I agree buying this early is risky and sometimes I get stressed!

Freeman, sound good value.

I think Saidia however will become 'the place to be seen' in Morocco and the fact there is a limited supply of property for sale on the development will force prices very high once the place is completed.
The facilities include designer shops (Armani, Boss etc) trendy London bars (Budha Bars), 3 gold courses, Polo lawns, helipads, 2 Carrefour supermarkets, aqua parks, athletics and football stadiums, wellness centres, an 800 berth marina all low rise and very chic. So more expensive than the development you mention, but I think well wroth it.

Its difficult enough to find property on the beach within a golfcourse in Europe let alone with all the facilities the site will have and year round weather!

Watch the weather on the Atlantic coast, my research says it can be cold in winter what with the winds.

hi dogbox
can you pass on the contact details for the agent you mention please

Hi Freeman Dogbox & Mutley,

yes it is for sure 35 mins from tariffa, on of course the fast ferry you can check this with travel companies.

And freeman i think the paradise beach & golf resort will be a top investment becouse for 1 thing it will be close to future tunnel link, and tangier region prices will always go up as its close to spain only 9 miles away.

I have also now found the site for this resort i am very interested in buying on this resort as well check the link http://www.propertyborders.com/listingview.php?listingID=75

Freeman please let me now if you buy and who with?

Dogbox the atlantic is not colder than the med in morocco would you believe it very slight changes sometimes more windy but this will be good for golf lovers, yes it can also be hotter than the med in winter would you believe it?

Saida will be a good investment as its part of plan azur and vision 2010 but so will tangier region asilah ect larache.

Hope this helps friends[u]

Hey guys,

I bought an apartment on Dubai marina last year and am also immensely intrigued by Morocco.

What gives me confidence is the scale at which Emaar and Dubai holdings are getting involved in Morocco.

2 bed apartments (around 120 m2) with marina view in Dubai are now worth about close to £250k. It seems that the Moroccan prices are considerably less than this.

I’m unsure whether to look at Saidia now or wait until the projects from these Dubai companies are released. Marina de cassablanca sounds very appealing.

I noticed that Le jardin fleur prices seem a bit higher than other developments in Saidia – not sure why – guess my research will continue.

I am also very interested in Brazil (particularly the north east coast - close to Natal and Bahia) and will be looking into this further. Morocco is obviously more accessible for Europeans but Brazil will be a major economic force in years to come and recent stats show tremendous growth in tourism and this trend is likely to continue.

Hi Everyone

We are buying an apartment in Saidia, its one of 228 luxury apartments called Magnum and are virtually on the beach, our apartment will overlook the golf course. As someone said, to get that position in Spain/Portugal/Dubai etc it would cost a lot more.
You probably wont have heard of Magnum because i believe they are all sold out, the block on the beach has been bought (or given !) by Deportivo La Coruno footballers so that should pull the crowds !!
Our apartment will come fully furnished and costs £110,000.
I highly recommend the company we are buying through, they specialise in Morocco, we have been on an inspection trip and the site is gorgeous.

If you would like contact details of the company I will be happy to pass them on.

I am sooooo excited about Saidia, it is going to be something very special.

hi guys
i spent 5 weeks travelling around morocco in 2004, havent been back yet but i will, found the country to be facinating, very diverse country snow capped mountains, sahara dessert, lovely beaches lots of history. very low cost of living.
freindly people we had no problems at all and we do investigate all areas of towns and cities. once you get used to the culture,you will love it. just because it may be different to ours as respect to personal space and the way people try to sell you stuff doesnt mean its wrong.

ive also been a boat owner for many years and belive me if the marina that your talking about is as good as it sounds it will fill up very quickly. rember berths on the med can change hands for millions, some side kick of bill gates was looking for a berth for his boat aboat 4 years ago in the med,monaco i think, he ended up having to buy a 6 million pound boat off the berth owner just to get the berth he wanted!! then sold on the boat so he could get his in!!

good luck to those who invest there. i am investing in central portugal ribatejo region as i belive this to be the next big (safe) thing

Hof someone posted on a Morrocan property forum that the Magnum properties had an awful clause attatching which restricted the number of weeks the owner could actualy use them down to 4 weeks!

Sounds far fetched to me but I thought worth mentioning.

I wont comitt to the first 20% until LeJardinDeFleur word the contract to cover all my concerns. They have verbally agreed to all my ammendments and tell me I will get a hard copy shortly.
My only real concern remaining is if the developer goes bust!

Like you I think Saidia will be incredible. I cant think of anything like this in the med, and as you say some big names are buying places. One of the worlds most upmarket bars have just signed up. Apparently its £200 just to get in the door! To think that by getting in early we are securing property in such an exclusive enclave is very exciting.

[quote name='dogbox' date='Apr 26 2006, 10:36 AM' post='359507']
Hof someone posted on a Morrocan property forum that the Magnum properties had an awful clause attatching which restricted the number of weeks the owner could actualy use them down to 4 weeks!

Yes I raised that with the developers and he said no problem once they have a Management Company in place i will put in writing that the apartment will be for our own personal use. As a matter of interest, which forum was that please?


Sounds far fetched to me but I thought worth mentioning.

I wont comitt to the first 20% until LeJardinDeFleur word the contract to cover all my concerns. They have verbally agreed to all my ammendments and tell me I will get a hard copy shortly.
My only real concern remaining is if the developer goes bust!

Like you I think Saidia will be incredible. I cant think of anything like this in the med, and as you say some big names are buying places. One of the worlds most upmarket bars have just signed up. Apparently its £200 just to get in the door! To think that by getting in early we are securing property in such an exclusive enclave is very exciting.

Only problem is we have to wait until this time next year to move in, can't wait !

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Hi Dogbox

Im seriously interested in Le Jarin De Fleur and have been trying to contact Jann via info - @intracasa.com
but to no avail can you email me contact nos please.

many thanks

Im astounded how many people from this and other forums are going for these same properties - spread the word, it will benefit us new owners!

Ive PMd you re contact details.

Can I ask a *really* stupid question ??

I mean, really, really stupid.

Has any one of you ACTUALLY been to Saidia ??

I have.

And what did you think of Saidia???

To be honest with you I'd rather wait and see the answers I'm going to get from those who are about to invest £000's before I say what I think.

My question earlier on was a bit rhetorical as I believe that those who are looking to invest haven't actually visited Saidia, or possibly even Morocco maybe.

I, on the other hand, know the country intimately.......

And it absolutely amazes me that there are people willing to invest huge amounts without having ever set foot in the place and are hyping it up something chronic and I dare say foolishly/dangerously.

No investment is guaranteed, and going in early like this is a little unsettling, however as I keep pointing out 60 designer retailers and up - market hoteliers are establishing premises on the Saidia site, including Boss, Armani, Mango, Budha Bars and Barcelo group.

Why do you think they are doing this?
Also note that the head developer is Spains 'Fadesa Group'.

If I have placed a wrong bet Im in good company.

Also the Dubai 'Emaar Properties' (a key Dubai player) have broken ground in Rabat, its 4th announced Moroccan development costing £3.4bn.
Morocco is THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL venture the Dubai company is undertaking. WHY MOROCCO, afterall the whole world would welcome these key Dubai developers?
Dubai money is pouring into Morocco in a 10 year plan to skyrocket this nations tourism indusrty as set out in Plan Azur, the Kings plan.

Its all about having a vision and not getting hung - up on the present. Theactual town of Saidia is a fairly grotty place, but so what? The Saidia development is a vast self - contained resort and in time the effect will no doubt have a positive impact on the nearby town as tourism beginns.

Im sure the upmarket resorts in Spain were once little more than poor fishing villages.

Many expensive London boroughs were grotty down beaten places not so long ago where you could pick up unloved property for peanuts.

On joining this forum I tipped Estonia as a key investment target. I now see price increases have been higher than almost anywhere else in the last 12 months, yet the neg - heads at the time told me Estonia would not take - off.

Investments dont come with a 'green for buy' label, otherwise everyone would invest all at once.

What is there to do at Saidia (apart from lie on a beach) ?

My kids and I never tire of beaches although not a lot of sunbathing is done. For us there is nothing Manmade can surpass a day beachcombing, crab catching, fire making and mucking about in water followed by a slap up bbq and mess about in the pool whilst the sun sets then wine and a good book under the stars.

We find many people like ourselves who are different from the group that prefer hours wandering around old buildings and vineyards (yawn). We dodnt mind the occasional bit of culture and Im sure there will be the odd bit around Saidia, but if not it wouldnt bother us for a second.

Although 'ammenities' dont particularly interest us, the site will include 20 up - market restaurants, 60 designer shops (yuk), cinemas a souk, Olympic pool and water park, polo pitch, football ground, athletics stadium, tennis, wildlife reserves, wellness centre, gym, marina etc etc etc etc.

Dogbox,

I am new to this forum. The Saidia resort sounds very interesting. I am looking for an overseas year round holiday home that i can use for myself and also rent out and potentially make a return from over the years. The resort ticks this box. Even if this doesn't bring the returns you are hoping, it will still be a very nice place to escape to.

However, can you advise the best way to get to the resort?

From my limited research, easyjet fly to Marakesh which is miles away, and atlas blue fly to Oujda, which looks like the nearest airport, however, these flights only operate from Brussels.

Can you let me know what the best way to travel to this resort will be and what will be the cost of travel? Is this a boat from spain and then a car drive to the resort?

Thanks.

Dogbox, couple of other questions.

Not sure if I have overlooked something obvious, but I am not sure why you will get sun even in winter on the roof terace, when buying the single storey 'hibiscus' villa?

I also note that most of the villas fronting the golf course are more expensive and have been reserved for phase 1 only leaving phase 2.

Which kind of view have you gone for?

Thanks.

I have been to Saidia, insisted on a visit before signing on the dotted line - the town was sleepy and quaint reminded me of Agadir a little, however, the complex at Saidia is going to be breathtaking, even though its still a building site the potential is obvious.
We were able to see a show apartment, the furnishings are of a high standard and the finished site is on display in all its scaled down glory.