Hi Guys

Well this all seems very strange. I tried to PM you both to give you details about the management agency that rented my house out to a couple last year but it says I am not allowed to PM. So in order to defend myself I am happy to give you the name of the agency on here. Give them a call and they will verify that I am indeed renting my property long term and it is DEFINITELY not for sale!!! . The agency is Angel Properties and they are in a town called Palomares. I have just had a new 11 month contract signed. A couple with 2 children are renting my house, there children go to the local school and they are having an amazing time living in Spain, they absolutely love it.

Also can I clear up another one of your accusations. My partner is a technophobe. She struggles with her mobile phone never mind a forum on a website. As such I dont quite get this 2 poster argument.

What is evident about Spain is that it is very different region to region. You cannot bunch it all together in one sweeping statement. I mean I have to admit that I absolutely hate the Costa Blanca. I visited Benidorm and Torrevieja a few years ago and I couldn't wait to leave asap. The place is full of "egg and chips" meatheads.

I genuinely feel sorry for those that bought there over 10 years ago. Anybody who bought there recently I mean come on did you not drive around and see for yourself what the place was like. Check out your neighbours, that really is a 65 year old with a tattoo of a dragon on her neck. Oh yes and that tapas bar is called the Rose and Crown. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

I was visiting my folks in Withernsea about 3 years ago and we drove past one of these home abroad expos in Hull. We went in there for a laugh and every stand was promoting a development in Torrevieja or Costa Blanca. Out of 40 stands about 37 I would say were to do with developments in Torrevieja. They were advertising these box villas for about £40k. Wow these prices are great I thought and then I looked around at the neanderthals buying them.

"it we lovely...it we just like england but really hot. Gary found a place near beach that served an all day fry up. He were in there every day"

"Near our house in Torre we have about 10 from estate in Hull all living out there now in winter. Its reet piss up every night"

It suddenly became clear, this was the area to avoid. We banged into people in our area of Spain all the time looking to escape Torrevieja. Funnily enough I was in a taxi and the driver was telling me he was trying to sell his house in Denia just the other week. Nightmare Area - Avoid Torrevieja at all costs!!!!

On the other hand some areas are protected by regulations they are ran by uncorrupt councils and they dont have hundreds of British bars or get invaded by beer bellied brits every Summer. I mean cities like Granada, Seville etc cannot be compared to markets like Costa Blance...completely different.

Where I have a house is a very popular resort and always has been for folk from Madrid. Many of the houses are holiday homes for Spanish who have benfited not only from the property boom but an improving economy and billions of EC euros. Its also more importantly a very popular area for Germans (They avoid the British Beer Bellied tourists) and Dutch (funnily enough there used to be thousands of Dutch in Benidorm but they moved down the coast to escape this declining area).

I suppose I am saying as I have said before it really is all about where you are in Spain. In my opinion there are really bad areas of Spain were people are and will have a nightmare and there are areas of Spain were people are having a great time and loving life. I know people who have sold bought sold and then bought again in my area in the past 4 years. I also know somebody like Paul/Sally who have been trying to sell their villa on the Costa Blanca for 2 years (For £170k more than they paid I must add).

I would like to ask Paul/Sally another question. How much did you buy for? How much did you sell for?

Hi again . our post was just a our view in general for all to see under the heading of[ game over in spain]... our villa was a 3 bed 4 year old detatched in La.Nucia . nr Altea ... our friend that has just sold lived on el dorado golf/country club ,, nr Campello . 3bed villa own pool 800 plot , newish , sorry we cant help you , well not directley........... all the best

ps we paid 165.000 plus tax new buildin 2001 we sold for 195,000 less agents fees and spent about 8,000 on inprovments . thanks

but I have no need for Spanish property lemons right now - I'm doing too well in other markets (that aren't in a state of collapse!)

yours very amused indeed
Catamite


So Catamite, how are the boys doing........................????

Do YOU actually answer any questions on here.............2 have been asked of you and both are still unanswered........

And to be honest Kitty, the above statement you made..." blah blah i´m doing well...blah blah".....I DOUBT IT,,,,,,,,,,not if you put as much knowledge and time in to it as you put into buying your hole in Spain.............and then again, BLAMING everyone else....

And stop looking in the mirror when you´re naked, that will help stop your amusement.

And guys, lets be honest (if any of you can), human nature shows that the only people on here that are pissed and bitching about Spain, are the ones that failed, screwed up or whatever...peace and love to you all

Still loving it all over here in the sun..

Allme

Well sounds to me like you paid well over the odds and sold way under the market but still walked away without a loss. It is indeed very sad hearing about these one off incidents and my heart goes out to you and your friend. I know La Nucia well and it has been encircled by bad developments over the past 5 years as you well know. Its about 30 miles from Benidorm and a quaint town but its very isolated and when you go inland you limit your resale potential simply because of the supply of similar properties. Another lesson on why buying in teh right area is crucial when buying abroad. As ever "Know your market".

Of course as Allme says you're only ever going to hear about the odd person who made a bad investment or got conned. The thing is is that all of the other 99.9% (literally millions) that are truly happy with their situation are out on their terrace having breakfast now and not sat inside like a saddo (me included) writing on this forum.

Catemite you never did answer the question on why you only come to this site to write on Spanish Property. For me this is very strange behaviour for somebody who has no interest in Spain. Also maybe you could let us in on these other markets you invest in.

hi again . maybe thers two la Nucia s ?? la Nucia is 8 k from playa lavanti benidorm,,, about 5 k from terra mitica golf and theme park .. i guess we just about broke even on our sale as i said we were lucky we had it on with severel est agents it started off 260.000 they all said roughly the same but as you know we ended up with 195.000 ... 189.000 after paying est agents fee ...........just one more thing i forgot to say,,,,, between sep 2004 and feb 2005 my wife worked for a removal comp very well known in spain , ther main office is in benidorm they fly the flag on the trucks [uj] she delt with bookings over the phone at that time 75% was returning .....20% moving down 5% inernal .. but at one point they hade to hire extra vans to meet the demand for the returning.. the figers was a complete turn around from the 90s and early years of 2000 ... Our frinds that have just sold work for a insurance comp in benidorm [ car / home ins ect ] she told us just 2 weeks ago that there is a lot of cancellations [ brits retuning home ] ..............good luck to all going..... and those retuning try looking at the s coast of England maybe you will find your dream there we did .. plus its a safe investment [yours sincerely] P&S

My apologies if it is even closer to Benidorm this now then makes even more sense. On the two occassions I have been there I have been taken there but for some reason I always thought it was further from IMO Europes worst holiday resort than it seems it actually is. I remember lots of out of place gross developments surronding it and definitely shouted nay screamed tacky and corrupt with a strained infrastructure. I certainly would have steered clear.

Indeed as I said before there are always those few that have had bad experiences and will spread these usual untruths, it works out about 0.01% of people going over to Spain.

I think you'll find more and more people year on year are moving to Spain and very few returning. It sounds like you made a bad choice of location but fortunately didn't lose out too badly, I sympathise with this minority but please dont start making out as if everyone is losing money and everyone is coming back. Far from it, please read this Guardian article http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,,1831037,00.html from only a few weeks ago. I will also get hold of a DWP report I saw just the other day which shows accurate data on people in Spain and shows a significant increase year on year 03/04/05/06.

As I said before know your market. I for one know that lots of people are moving from original house purchases in the Costa Blanca and buying in the Costa Almeria after working out that Costa Blanca is a No Go area.

Remember the media only likes nightmare stories and the only people on here or other websites are those bitter few that made errors and have now returned or people that never made it there because they suddenly found themselves priced out. They think everything should return to £30k for a villa as it was in 1983 but Spain is now no longer a developing country almost third world as it was 30 years ago. My house has 2MB ADSL, granite worktops, marble floors and a designer kitchen and 3 designer bathrooms. We have an Ikea in Murcia and Thai, Sushi/Japanese, Indian etc restaurants all within walking distance.Of course some poverty exists inland still but Spain is now a developed EC country and as such property will be priced accordingly.

My prediction 5-10% reduction in 2007 with 5-10%gains in 2008 and increases of 5-10% a year from then onwards. Why? Well Germans are starting to buy but more than anything Boomers are starting to retire and they want two things - Sunshine and easy/cheap travel to the UK. Within 2-3 hours and £50 the kids can visit or they can visit the kids - thats about the same time and cost as a train between London and Manchester. No wonder its called the California of Europe

Adi

"0.01% is 1 in 10,000" - do you really think the incidence of people being unhappy is that low, or have you had a similar level of childhood mathematical tuition as Allme?

"Easy/cheap travel to the UK" - somehow you've missed the enormity of the fuel crisis we are heading towards in the next 10 years. Planes won't fly on solar power baby, or nuclear either - good old rapidly depleting oil is the only thing that hits the spot! But it's running out, oops, bye bye cheap travel. Good while it lasted though....like the boom in Spain.

haw haw haw

"Saddo" eh? Speak for yourself adibrowntrout. I enjoy my occasional foray onto these pages, a peek into the funny farm that is Allme's world. I referred to my (admittedly limited) other markets on the other thread, and think I addressed your other query also. I also alluded to my interest in Spain, which gives me and some friends a bit of a laugh, basically a form of self-deprecating joke I guess. But amusing for us in a wry kind of way, not so bad.

By the way, you said 0.01% were unhappy. That means 99.99% were happy. Not 99.9%. Perhaps Allme and yourself could do some night classes together? Throw in a few Catamites and really liven things up! And Allme, did it ever occur to you that my use of "Catamite" was perhaps ironic? After all, who had to point you to a dictionary so that you could even understand the word? People with very broad education and extensive vocabularies often play with interesting words such as these (not with the boys insinuated!). But, I think you might like to imagine the other possibility - do I sense a frisson of closet excitement from your breathy and verbose replies??!!

Very amusing. I dont think you do yourself any favours with these kind of rambling replies.

I never called anybody saddo, never used the word but after reading most of your threads I feel a strange aversion to its use

Good sums Catemite. OK so it was probably a little OTT and is probably closer to 2%. Big deal the facts show a massive increase in numbers, if we were to believe you or paul/sally surely the numbers of Brits would be falling.

What you are explaining there Catemite would affect all flights. Surely Spain would still be in relative terms a cheaper destination than lets say Florida or Greece to fly to and from.

You have a very poor attitude Catemite. Are you under 5 foot 6 by any chance?

Adibrownnose,

you say: "I never called anybody saddo, never used the word"

but a few posts up, you delivered the following:

"The thing is is that all of the other 99.9% (literally millions) that are truly happy with their situation are out on their terrace having breakfast now and not sat inside like a saddo (me included) writing on this forum."

BacktoParents was right - there's a schizo thing going on here; both you AND Allme should really be due some special allowance under National Health - check out your entitlements!

With regard to the fuel issue, maybe buy where there is good indigenous rental potential as the black gold runs out? That would make some sense, right? And will there be good local rental return in Spain as set against the (rising) cost of capital? Yeah right make me laugh some more, rent might cover the local refuse charges if you're lucky. Maybe would be OK in Spain if they weren't frenetically building as if free space was going out of fashion. 800 thousand units a year (yes 800K) being completed - put simply it's a low occupancy, low rental, property slump strategy that's being executed very nicely!

really gotta go - pain in my side

5'11" as it happens; not an old timer Allme - that was one of my Grandfathers favourite phrases as he got old and grumpy - I like it!

ERMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM 5´11".........ok i´m 6´1" and 18 stone...................so can you tell me how old I am from my height...lol

Damn one thing for you Kitty Kat is you have passion mate, does anything anyone really say on here make a difference to the really big fish......NOPE.

The heavy breathing you are talking about is me trying to catch my breath, beacuse I really cant stop laughing at your pathetic attempt at insults..........and to be honest, there are far batter words to use if you wish to be sarcastic.............rather than talking about sex with little boys............
Now calm all 5´11" down, dont want you getting a nose bleed............................deep breaths.....oh no thats me again...
Anyone numb nuts..............thats pressuming you actually have any nuts........or is that another question you wont answer...............like the one about 10 replies ago....."where is this Villa" you spoke about, is it in the fantasy world you call your brain.....oh yeah I keep forgetting you have an education so that makes you better than me......lol
Dumb ******

We sit on here bitching and moaning and slagging (well for me thats the fun part) each other off, while someone last week bought 100 OFF PLAN for one of the largest Banks in the world................
I dont wanna fight about this NO more, you have your view and I have mine.....................simple...... a bit like you really,and to be honest again...if an education makes people turn out like you......then i´m all for staying thick and uneducated

Peace love and SPAIN..........ahhh all this loveley money, sun, sea and stupid ******s like KITTY KAT....oh no the stupid ******s dont live here................and i am soooo glad.

ADIBRWONNOSE.....nice name by the way..........does´nt that mean "like to ****** around and screw with Kitty Kat´s mind"

Anyway, drop me a mail mate....allme@goowy.com

You can send abuse there to Kitty Kat

HI all ... Well this is our last post , to much slaging for us,,, but just one last thought ... most of us on the site agree the c.blanca/c.d.sole have had there day ,,,the place to be now is Murcia/almira ect ,,, the bad news is that, the con men and eastern block gangs from all over spain are on there way ,and should be up and running by next monday ish ...soon they will have the best of everthing that spain has to offer .... thers a lot of jokes re spain at the mo think you may like this one .... what is the diferance betwen a english/spanish est agent in spain and a seagul ............................... the seagul can still leave a deposit on a b.m.w ... the est agent cant leave one on a push bike .... byeeeeeeeeee have fun with the slaging p&s [ not returing]

HA HA HA HA HA HA...eastern block gangs, what are you talking about....ha ha ha ha

most of you on here slag of every investment under the sun, and all of a sudden you buy in spain once and now you are experts...lol

Thats good, thats the best laugh I´ve had allll day, thats a hell of a lot better than what Kitty Kat can come up with..........LMAO

http://news.scotsman.com/aberdeen.cfm?id=1239362006

Unfortunately Spain is already seen as a prime target for Eastern European gangs with tourist villas and apartments on the Costas seen as easy targets.

doric woman [ thank you ],,,,,it just fits with the rest of it.. way way way out of touch ..the jungle drums must have stoped working bye all

You are joking me, a burglary...my god it must be like Brixton over there.

Not once are East Europeans mentioned in that article. A man from Aberdeen has a few beers and gets up at 10am and believes he has been gassed. It sounds like a spoof news site. Do you know how difficult it is to create enough gas to fill a villa? And for stealing some scots guys wallet and his wives bits and pieces. Now it is known in Italy that some gangs release gas into train carriages through air con vents but to fill a villa with enough gas to knock out a family of 4 for that long LOL....I just cant see it. Now it is possible that he had a few beers and left a side window or door open as many Brits do when they are on holiday in Spain and their guard is down. It is a shame but crime is commited in Spain believe it or not.

And I understand that in areas of Spain there are Eastern European gangs, not quite as many as in the UK but still enough to cause a stir in a country with an unbelievably low crime rate.
Here are the recent figures for crimes recorded by the Police in EU states as recorded by the Home Office and Council of Europe http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb1203.pdf


England & Wales 5,525,316
France 4,061,792
Germany 6,363,865
Italy 2,613,830
Spain 1,015,640

Now the official population of Spain is 40 million+. Add to that the millions of tourists and remember that figure above includes all those Brits invading the Costas all year round fighting and being drunk and disorderly.

Doesn't strike me as the type of place invaded by Eastern European gangsters, looks like a place that with population difference taken into account about three times safer than the UK. Of course as in every country in Europe (UK the worst) eastern europeans have emigrated there and some of them are indeed criminally minded but no more than anywhere else.

Again it is the odd person robbed in Spain and all of a sudden Spain is full of robbers. The odd person makes a bad investment and the whole of Spain is a bad investment. When you then produce fact to show these people that there claims are unfounded they decide to ignore that. Why? Well it is human nature. It isn't Catemites fault that he is bitter about his failed investment or Paul/Sally's fault that they are disappointed that it didnt work out for them but for heavens sake dont roll out these generalisations about Spain.

18 stone? Go easy on the pies man....! gotta rush but will get back tomorrow - rather enjoying this; Paul/Sally - sorry to see you go - this site is pure looney tunes and great fun with such opposing views. Can't wait until the crash in Spain becomes irrefutable....Allme, get on a bike, hit that treadmill, dump the steroids or whatever!

Again I wont argue.....the trouble is that with alll this money and becasue it is soooooo cheap over here I get to eat like a king, and then with alllll this work beacsue of all the sane people still buying over here I dont get much time to play, oh well maybe in 5 years when i retire I play more....ha ha ha

...................................."You cant wait for the crash in spain to be irrefutable"..................

BUT HAVE¨NT YOU AND THE MASSES BEEN SAYING THAT SPAIN IS ALREADY CRASHING......................

Now thats a bit strange, make your minds up....so what is it now....its on the downward spirral....I mean this year property prices have only hit 15.7% cap on the costa del sol, thats terrible......oh no, next year might only be 15% or even worse I might only get 12% return on my money.....,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

OK let me see. my APARTMENTS are worth €250,000 x lets say 10%..........ahhhh thats only €25,000 oh no quick lets get out now.....................ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

It is has either CRASHED in SPAIN or it HAS´NT. please make your minds up and get your stories straight

Hi everyone,

This is Sally now on the keyboard. Think that the other half has had enough, laughed so much in the last few days just can't take it any more. As it has already been stated by so many, there is so much corruption at all levels in Spain, the real truth is very hard to understand. But I will try to tell it the way it is. There have been many instances throuhout Spain of people being gassed (maybe small apartments, who knows, but it happens). Chloroform is quite often used just before people enter their apartments or villas.
There was a Welsh couple they were travelling around Spain looking to buy a property, they were convinced that they were dealing with estate agents but they were taken inland to see a property. At that point they were both held captive and their bank account was slowly emptied because they threatened to kill his wife. In the end they killed both of them. If it was not for the family of the missing couple, they would never have been found because the Spanish police were doing nothing. Only when they were really under pressure did they look for them. The whole of Europe knows this story but you obviously do not....... For someone who thinks they are so well informed, I find it strange that you don't know why the figures are so low for crime in Spain. The answer is very simple, Spanish police do not like paperwork, as adibrown has stated, quite often for burglary/theft [quot] people are just taken in and given a good beating. We know [this is true from personal experiences in Spain. A gang of mixed races (eastern europe, north african) were caught virtually red-handed but by the time the witness arrived at the police station (45 mins after arrest) they had already been released. When the witness complained to the police he told them that the offenders had been asked to leave the area and never return (given a beating). This happens a lot. Less paperwork plus it looks very good doesn't it - low crime rate. Lets hope that explains that one.
And as for property in Spain is a good investment [[[[[NO WAY ]]]]]] and please don't forget to remind people of the 5%to[7%on new] tax plus up to 3% notary and connection charges etc. when a purchase is made (1 .5% up to 280.000pounds in the U.K.). Then of course there are commuinity fess, local town hall taxes, basura etc. etc. etc. When it comes time to sell, you will probably have 5% or more estate agents fees,plus 5% (or 33% of any profit) deducted. This of course depends on your residency but nevertheless you have still probably got to pay someone to deal with your rebate claim,you may or may not get it returnd. So, if we take all this into consideration, property in Spain would need to show very good gains. ...
With regards to the 10 and 15% gains in parts of Spain. I am sure that you know that up until recently,buying a property would probably have included 'black money'. Let me explain. A villa bought 3 years ago which was advertised for 250,000 Euros and sold for that ,,,, but it was highly likely that a large amount (say 70,000 Euros - conservative) would have been paid cash, under the table.[black money ] So on the official paperwork, the sale would have shown 180,000 Euros. So lets say it sold again last week for 220,000 Euros. The property actually made a loss of 30,000 euros although the official figures show that it made a healthy profit 40.000 euros. This is happening all over Spain now because the government has clamped down on 'black money'..... It is very simple, isn't it....the official figures are just crap based on crap..... thats that out the way ...... Also about 10 days ago 3 of the 4 main banks in Spain have clamped down or completely stopped mortgage lending. The reasons given by BBC 1 Breakfast Time World News was a very high percentage of defaults and over building. Who knows for how long the clamp will last. There is one other factor, it has been said that the baby boomers are coming up for retirement and they are heading off to warmer climates. Well sorry to say but pensions (private/company) have performed badly and a lot of them now cannot afford to do it. Lots were looking to take lump sums (1/4 of their total pot) and still have enough to live on. Most of them have been halved or worse and a lot have now decided that they have got to work on instead of retiring early. It would not be so bad if the cost of living in Spain is now becoming on par with the rest of Western Europe. I hear that petrol is costing almost the same as the U.K. now. I guess that doesn't matter too much??? superkings up by 8 euros in one hit , wow ,it will not be long, soon it will all be on par, thats what the E.U is all about, and that bit about eating out is a lot cheaper, we certainly didn't find that unless we ate Spanish food. We couldn't help it but we just loved our English bacon, bread, tea and other products. You certainly pay through both nostrils for them down there in the supermarkets
I hope that anyone reading this in the future will look very deeply before making any property purchases thinking that it will work out a lot cheaper to live or that they will get a good return on their property within 3 or 4 years..[ unlikley]... so you better be sure you will not want to sell and return home or just move to another part of spain 7to10 % on top again dont forget......things dont look so good now do thay.......... Just one other thing to say, I have read on here about all the drunk Brits that cause problems in the holiday resorts. One thing we noticed while living close to Benidorm is that there are two languages in Spain - Spanish and English.... it would seem If you are drunk and or shouting, screaming ,fighting etc in English, then you must be English. We soon realised by the accents, a lot of the time they were not English at all. [ Scandinavian, Canadian, Australian, Irish, Dutch ect ect ect] - but of course, if they are speaking English, the Spanish can not tell the difference in the accents. so we get the blam for all of it .........well thats it said my bit ..... good luck to spain and all that sink with her

I realy do hate to hear people generalise, I DONT LIKE WHAT DOES happen in Spain and all over the world with crooks.

But what I am saying is this, WE TELL PÈOPLE ABOUT ALLLL THE COSTS INVOVLED, NO HIDDEN EXTRAS, WE ALSO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT BLACKMONEY.....NEVER PAY OVER 25% BLACK MONEY.......WE ALSO MAKE SURE BUILDING LISENCES ARE IN PLACE AND THA BANK GAURANTEES ARE IN PLACE.......IF THE BUILD IS LATE YOU GET 6% INTEREST ON YOUR MONEY, IF THE BUILDER GOES BUST YOU ALSO GET ALLLLL YOUR MONEY BACK PLUA 6% INTEREST THROUGH OUT THE TIME IT WAS IN THE BANK.....NOT IN THE DEVELOPERS BANK ACCOUNT BUT IN THE BANKS BANK ACCOUNT..............YOUR MONEY IS SAFE, VERY SAFE................THE WORST CASE IS THAT YOU WOULD NOT MAKE ANY MONEY.....BUT WOULD GET EVERY PENNY BACK PLUS 6%..........

Sally and Paul, I am sorry for your situation realy sorry, but we are not all BAD.

Cheers

Hi Allme and Everyone,

Nice to see that your people are doing things with the current regulations all in place. There are a few loopholes in the current regulations plus as we found out when we purchased our property, there are still points that are left to trust. i.e. we wanted to move down quite quickly. The builders representative told us that the property would definitely be finished in six months. When we received the contract, the completeion date stated on it was three and a half years on. When we confronted the builder's representave, they said that this was just to cover the builders in an unlikely event and we could rest assured that the property would be built and ready to move in in six months. Guess what, do I really need to tell you, it was not ready until the day before the contract expired. Even then, it was not really finished. This is just one example. It is not the end of the world, but it was frustrating at the time because it was always someone else's fault i.e. bad weather or suppliers on strike etc. etc. etc.
A friend was let down on their purchase. They did get their deposit back and they did receive the 6% but by the time tax, bank charges and their solicitors fees were taken, that had almost evaporated. At least they did not loose money, so that is good.
You say that you wish people would not generalise, I don't think we have, I did check our last mail and could not spot any generalisations other than my comments about the Spanish and other nationalities always blaming the English for the troubles in the holiday resorts. As I said, they generalise and blame us even though quite often it is not the English at all, just the language. People also generalise about England. Please don't fell sorry for us, we personally did not have it that bad, but we saw and spoke to loads that did. We don't regret moving to Spain for 3 years, it just made us appreciate England more than when we left. Plus we did not move back to where we left (Dartford/Gravesend area), we already knew that these areas have problems i.e. traffic, hooligans etc. We ended up right on the south coast (borders Kent/Sussex) where the weather has been very good. The last two winters have not been that different to La Nucia (perhaps less rain here). On average, a bit colder but because the properties are better built and the heating system works, it does not really matter. The locals are much the same as in Spain, people speak even when you don't know them. Have not heard of one break-in or mugging, have not seen any vandalism since we have been back. So when people knock England, I think exactly the same as you about generalising things. Not all parts of England are the same!! We are very happy here. We have travelled all over the world (Western world), Canada (most parts), USA (west coast, California etc.), nearly all the larger islands in the Med. and surrounding countries and others but in our opinion, the best scenery, beaches, quaint villages and also good amenities is right here in England (Cornwall/Devon). They do have some problems as everywhere, the main one being high rainfall level. If it was not for that, I think there would be a queue to go and retire there.
Thanks for the chat, never know, we might come down and have a look at your area for ourselves. We are always jetting off somewhere, it is so cheap now (going to Bilbao for the day, shopping trip, 35 pounds return, Easyjet). Might make your area on the next trip.

All the best to everyone on this site,

P/S

Hi guys

By all means come to my neck of the woods and I´ll show you around......the area NOT properties, I lived just off East Hill in Dartford...............and opss my appologies again, the generalisation was not meant to you guys, a complete other thread....sorry.
I do agree though generalising in whatever country you live or go to is ridiculus...everywhere is different.
I left England (and i´m glad you call it that) because I was not allowed to be an Englishman in ENGLAND.
I do wish I could be who I am, and to feel proud of it, without everyone telling me I´m racisist, I can be more patriotic in Spain than I can in my own country.....figure that out.
Anyway another topic for another day......before I again go off the deep end...lol

Cheers

allme ....... hi ..... well i damed so did we , just off st vincents rd bow arrow lane most of the you know whats have gone north now, but down here on the coast we dont see any , all gone more or less.... where we are now is a world away from dartford , i could not live there again or any big town in england or spain so if you come from kent you must know,, great stone/ camber sands/ rye ect PandS

I think this is a great example of two sets of people who come from the same area of the UK and have both found what they are looking for and are happy and at peace were they are now. One in Spain and one in the UK.

Sally, going through your points just quickly. I agree that there is crime in Spain (although I must say I think the gas tactic sounds a bit extreme and possibly one of those urban myths - I mean most Brits in Spain have drank about 4 bottles of vino before bedtime and couldnt be woken up by an earthquake never mind somebody tiptoeing around their apartment). Undoubtedly though wherever you have people with apparent wealth who then think because their in Spain they can leave the patio door open at night you are going to have thefts.

The case you mention with the Welsh couple was appalling and as you rightly say made headline news across Europe. It made headline news across Europe though because it was a complete one off and shocking for Spain. I live in Sussex and remember reading about an elderly couple in Hastings just a few weeks ago who were burgled and held for two days whilst there cards were used and the man had a heart attack and died. It didnt even make national news !!! Now this is Sussex/Kent borders where you live and this was 2 men of Eastern European appearance. Now I wouldnt go around and say well its obvious that Rye and that area is flooded with Eastern European gangs. Look they are kidnapping pensioners in theri homes and subjecting tehm to horrific attacks. I read the following press release the other day:

The South East includes four areas to which the National Asylum Support Service (NASS) dipserse asylum seekers. These are Hastings, Brighton & Hove, Portsmouth and Southampton. Placements number in the region of 1,700 – 1,800. In addition 4,100 households receive ‘subsistence only’ support from NASS and live with friends and relatives in the region. Added to these numbers, local authorities in the South East still support approximately 7 – 8,000 asylum seekers under the pre-NASS ‘interim provisions’.

Now Brighton,Portsmouth and Southampton are cities but Hastings is half the size. I could deduce from this that where you live is a hellhole riddled with crime and eastern european assylum seekers. Recent crime figures show an above average crime level:

The population of Hastings is 85,139

Month Total number of offences Offences per1000 pop.Hastings Offences per 1000 England/Wales pop
Apr-Jun 2869 33.7 27.3
Jul-Sep 2932 34.4 26.3
Oct-Dec 2711 31.8 26.1
Jan-Mar 3031 35.6 25.5


Now from all of this I would say that were you live is a horrible crime ridden land of illegal immigrants and East European gangs. I've read first hand accounts from residents and spoke to people living in the area. Kent/Sussex borders is definitely not a place to live.

Now as I am saying this you are shouting at the screen and saying "no, no ,no where we live in the Rye area is fantastic there is hardly any crime and hardly any immigrants and certainly no east European gangs." But it is only 10-15 miles from Hastings......... Do you see where I am going with this argument. It is all about the area you live in. Allme has probably seen no crime where he lives in Spain, I certainly in 4 years never knew of anybody who was a victim of a crime. Unfortunately you may have known somebody who was affected but that doesnt go to say that the whole of the Costas is crime ridden. Generalisation based on media or gossip is dangerous.

As for Spanish police methods...fantastic, if only we did it in the UK. Instead we give out ASBOS which are then paraded around by hooligans like OBE's or MBE's. Or perhaps we give them a slap on the wrist "well it was only little Johnny's 450th crime so we are not able to give a custodial sentance yet." When he commits a serious crime we may give him a "Tag" which stops him staying out at the pub. Too soft. Our police spend too much time doing paperwork and not enough time beating the living daylights out of criminals. And correct me if I am wrong but the Spanish teenagers around my area of Spain were very respectful of their elders and certainly respectful of the police. Have you ever seen a Spanish Hoodie?

This black money your talking about. This is all part of the Spanish system and no matter what people say will always go on. The declared value on the esceturia is always below the actual sales price as it means less tax to pay to central government. The way you describe it makes it sound like it is a criminal act but lawyers actually advise that it is the done method. More recently people have been given a choice and less and less under declaring goes on but it is still common practise. It is no different than practices that go on over here on a daily basis. Company Directors, Self Employed people they all under declare something or pay themselves in dividends or pay cash without VAT etc to avoid paying extra tax.
I can see how this may make prices look like they are increasing by more. You might be right. I can only go on sales in my local area and so far things seem to be ticking along nicely with prices generally increasing quarter to quarter.

With regards Spanish banks giving out mortgages the clampdown has happened because until now they have lent money to people without any real evidence of income. Many asked for excel spreadsheets showing accounts for self employed people. It was getting ridiculous. This clampdown should lead to those who shouldnt get a mortgage not getting a mortgage and this should lead to a drop in defaults and as such this will lead to a drop in repossesions. Good news all round for Spanish Property Owners (unless your trying to borrow too much).

Sally your babyboomer and pensions argument is actually creating the demand not lowering it. Now babyboomers have poorly performing pensions many are looking to sell their house in the UK and buy much cheaper property in Spain and put the remaining equity in a high interest savings account. A 3 bedroom house in Spain can still cost as little as £120k were in the UK you are looking at £250k and £500k if its in the South East. They can sell in the UK and live the same if not better lifestyle abroad for half the price meaning they have to rely less on private pensions.

Your cost of living argument astounds me. I dont know what you bought or what you were doing but my monthly expenditure was a quarter of what it is now in the UK. For a start I pay £170 a MONTH council tax here. In Spain it was 18 euros a YEAR. I bought a bottle of Campo Viejo red wine for 2 euros (£1.30) here in the UK the same bottle in Tesco is £6. I used to buy 1kg of King Prawns in the Mercadona for 3 euros (£2). In the UK you are looking at paying around £13 for the same!!!!

For me this statement says it all. I'm sure you are lovely people but this does all of a sudden make everything clearer about all you have said and your dissatisfaction with Spain.

"superkings up by 8 euros in one hit , wow ,it will not be long, soon it will all be on par, thats what the E.U is all about, and that bit about eating out is a lot cheaper, we certainly didn't find that unless we ate Spanish food. We couldn't help it but we just loved our English bacon, bread, tea and other products. You certainly pay through both nostrils for them down there in the supermarkets"

unfortunately when you live in Spain you do sometimes have to eat Spanish food. I liked my bacon and egg and my roasts but I tended to eat them as a treat once a month. When its 40 degrees anyway I always felt like eating salads and calamari and fresh fish. Never fancied Pies or Pizzas. Eating the Spanish way is much much more healthier and is probably why a lot of people move to Spain when they retire (Perhaps not benidorm though). I was certainly a few pounds lighter when I was over there. The weather means you are out and about a lot more and the air is much fresher.

What you say about English speaking people causing trouble in Benidorm not always being British. You are right some people from other countries do have hooligans but come on lets face it whenever I have been places like that the majority are British. We do have a binge drinking culture which is highly embarrasing and I dont see it on the scale we have it in our town centres anywhere else in Europe. I think you are being a bit blinkered.

You say your friend put a deposit on a place which didn't work out and after all costs she only made a small bit of interest. That sounds like a fairly succesful outcome to me and not this nightmare corrupt system you talk about.

You say that you signed a contract with a completion date three and a half years on and you signed it and then complin because it was completed before the completion date. Dont sign anything that you then whinge about later on. You cant use the excuse "Oh but we were told this" when you clearly signed a document in the knowledge that this date was on there. You wouldnt do that in the UK. The Wimpey developemnt here in Brighton was 9 months overdue and take a look at Wembely stadium !!!!! This isnt a Spanish problem!!!, building does sometimes run over schedule and unfortunately because of your contract that you willingly signed the builder is going to schedule your new build somewhere in between the ones who refused to sign and those that didnt even get a contract.
Again something to watch out for wherever you buy a newbuild property.

What you say about the weather is absolute rubbish. Sorry but what planet are you on? Are you starting to challenge the natural meteorlogical fact thatcountries closer to the equator have milder and warmer weather than those further away. May be you think Iceland is on a par with Kenya? It is solid fact, Southern Spain is warmer than the UK, it has milder winters and less rainfall. Dontstart arguing this one with me. It used to make me laugh that on the one day that perhaps the UK was hotterthan the Costas the Sun newspaper used to go on and on about it and people used to ring me up and tell me that the UK was hotter than Spain. OK but what about the other 364 days a year do you want me to ring you up everytimeit is hotter in Spain than the UK, I mean come on......If the UK has an exceptionaly warm and dry winter and Spain has an exceptionally cold wet winteryou would still find that Spain was warmer and drier.

I was brought up in East Devon and I have to say it is a beautiful part of the World but it is also very wet and very cold in winter. It has a very high cost of living and the restuarants are akin to London prices. It is starting to be invaded by high street names and now you cant move for Starbucks, Carphone Warehouse or Wetherspoons. It is good but IMO it is full of retired people too lazy or scared to move abroad. It is a nice place to visit for a few days though and grab a cream tea, although unless you want to eat English food it can be a bit expensive..I mean I like my Chorizo, squid and Dorado but you pay through teh nose for these

Brandon Road me guys......and many years ago I used to work part time for All night cars and Beeline taxis..........

Small world, adn I´m glad your still here dont let us kids run you off.......we will grow up one day...lol

Cheers

Hi Allme

What a small world. We will have to hook up sometime on MSN or e-mails or something for a proper chat. Just going to answer adibrown's post. Don't think adi really read our post properly, so many things are answered incorrectly or it seems that our words have been twisted. Well I guess you will read it and see what I mean. TTFN

P&S

To adibrown and all who read this site,

I don't think you really read our post properly and a lot of your explainations are very flawed. You also seen to contradict yourself when I compare this current post of yours with earlier ones!

First of all, the comments about Brits in Spain drinking 4 bottles of vino etc. is absolute rubbish. We can only comment on WHERE WE WERE - I SHAL REPEAT -WHERE WE WERE - NOT ALL OF SPAIN - ONLY WHERE WE WERE. Personally we cannot say anything at all about your areas. We know of lots of people, and I mean LOTS of people who were broken into or mugged ( a pensioner of 70 who lived across the road was mugged twice in one week), another friend mugged at gunpoint getting out of his car. Another neighbour mugged at Alicante airport with her 2 month old baby in her arms and was nearly knocked to the ground (now she has moved back to the U.K.) In fact, thinking about it, all of the mentioned have either moved back or are trying to.

You then go on to trying to make some kind of point about Hastings. The figures you have shown are probably 100% correct, the point is which you seem to have missed, the crime figures shown for Spain are probably 200% incorrect. Your own words adi 'the local police just take these people in and give them a bloody good hiding'. I totally agree with this, that is the whole point, that is one reason why the crime figures look so low, don't you get it? Plus the Spanish police don't like paperwork and will avoid it at all costs. You have just re-confirmed everything I have said.

By the way, Hastings now is being totally re-developed all the way along the seafront where a lot of the asylum seekers were. We go there regularly and you hardly see any now. Please don't forget that Hastings is a holiday resort. Why is it that in holiday resorts like Benidorm etc. in Spain we should expect a high level of crime (I believe that it was you who made this comment) but when it comes to Hastings, we should not? Is this what you are trying to say? I have noticed you tell people that they should not assume things, but you made the assumption that because I asked 'allme' if she knew Camber Sands and Rye that that is where we lived. You should really listen to your own advice and not assume anything.
We don't live there and are not 15 minutes from Hastings.

I spoke to an old boy who lives opposite us and he has lived here all his life. He said he can only remember 3 break-ins locally, but why am I telling you all this when programmes like the one shown tonight on ITV between 8 and 9pm does all the work for us, maybe you saw it. It was again about corruption and unscrupulous builders/estate agents, mostly in Spain.

Your comments about black money, not really sure what point you were trying to make. We made only one point. That this is the main reason that a lot of properties are showing good gains. The only comment you made that has any bearing on this is that we might be right. It is not me that has though this up, Brussels has told Spain to clean up its act. This is all part of it.

You then go on to say that the clamp down is good news all round for Spanish property owners. You forgot to mention that it is not good news if you are trying to sell because now, not only do you have fewer buyers in an overbuilt market, you are also going to struggle to find anyone who wants to pay with black money anymore. I hope you understand this, you did not seem to the first time round.

As regards the baby boomers, I don't think that you will convince anyone that it is still a lot cheaper in Spain. People go there on their holidays and nearly everyone says the same, that prices are shooting up in Spain. Especially since the introduction of the Euro. You then compare, what is probably the lowest figure for a 3 bedroomed house in Spain (120K, don't forget to add up to 10%) with what is probably the highest figures for a comparable property in the U.K. (250K - 500K, plus probably 2-3%). There are plenty of properties in this area for 150k. You can get a really nice 3 bed bungalow on a good sized plot which has real double glazing, real heating and is made of bricks and mortar (not terracotta blocks and dust).

Then you move on to council tax. Remember this, 5/7% tax when you buy. Tax is tax, it has gone, the government has got it. On a 250K house, that is between 12 to 15K Euros. How many years council tax is that? It has gone from your pocket, just the same. Now let's add in what we were paying (in La Nucia) to the council (400E) and community fees (360E) and basura (160E). Now lets add that to the 12 - 15K purchase tax, what do we come up with. You have to live there for about 10 years before you break even.

As far as the supermarkets being cheaper here, I still stand by that.

Re. eating out. We eat out quite a lot here. Quite often we go out for a steak to a local restaurant where you can have any 2 steaks off the menu (includung T-bone) and also an all you can eat salad bar and vegetables for 20 pounds. We paid 13 to 14 euros each in a good restaurant (IN OUR AREA IN SPAIN) so it's roughly the same but you did not get the all you can eat salad bar and vegetables.

Next, you go on about building works in the U.K. going over the building time and mention Wembley Stadium. What the hell has that got to do with Brits that complain about their villa not being finished on time, not having water or electricity supply, sometimes for months. What point are you trying to make? Who wants to go and live inside Wembley Stadium?

Then the weather, again I was talking about WHERE WE LIVED IN SPAIN. It was disappointing. We definitely had more rain there than we have seen here since we have been back. I never once said that the weather is better here as regards temperatures (I said that it does not seem that much different). Again you seem to have twisted up what has actually been said. We checked the temperatures in Alicante regularly this summer on the teletext and as it happens the were many days in June and July when it was hotter here or roughly the same. Re. the winter. I actually said that because of good heating that works (not a silly gas bottle or air con unit that costs the earth to run) we felt warm whereas in La Nucia, we felt cold even before we went out due to the poor construction, insulation and the fact that it does get cold in La Nucia. We had snow and ice almost every winter we were there. One year the motorway (E15) was closed for the snow ploughs.

Your comment about Devon being invaded by high street names. I really don't understand any of this, it is beyond me - what point are you trying to make? Is Devon finished because of a few shops?

I have two questions for you. Do you hate England full stop? Are you connected to the property market in Spain?

Again I will give the same advice. There are obviously genuine estate agents in Spain. There are obviously places in Spain where you can still get a genuine property in a nice area. My opinion is still the same, trust no-one. Do as much groundwork as you can for yourself. If you really must go, then rent first. This gives you plenty of time to find out who the straight estate agents/builders are. If you can do things this way and you take time over it, you probably will escape the corruption and greed that exists in many parts of Spain. It is funny, tonight there was a programme on ITV which was pointing out the pitfalls and cons going on in Spain, but did you notice that quite often the reporter was telling us these things from the beaches of the Kent and Sussex coast. My god, what a coincidence.

Adi, please read this for what it is (perhaps 2 or 3 times). We don't hate Spain, just trying to prevent others getting conned. We are not saying that it goes on all over Spain. Just telling it the way it was.

P&S

[quote name='paul /sally' date='Aug 29 2006, 10:31 PM' post='437579']
To adibrown and all who read this site,

OK.

Sorry but in your post you say "There have been many instances throuhout Spain of people being gassed". When you said throughout Spain I thought you meant just that and not just in your area. I am glad that you now admit that this "crimewave" happened amongst your friends in one small area.

When I was discussing Hastings it was meant as an example of how you can take one town and paint a generalised picture of an area or even a country. You jumped straight to the defence of where you lived as I did when you said "throughout Spain" when talking about people being gassed. You might not live anywhere near Hastings and are obviously put out by my analysis of crime rates in Hastings. The facts are there - The NASS has just released figures saying they will place 383 new assylum seekers in Hastings in the second half of 2006. For the record I never said that Benidorm had a high crime rate, I do though say that Hastings has a high crime rate. I can dig up the facts to prove this.


When you state that crimes go unrecorded in Spain because of the polices disinterest in completing paperwork you are sadly misinformed. It is estimated that crime figures in the Costas are in fact increased by 30% by fraudalent insurance claims.Dont believe me - read this http://www.andalucia.com/news/:



With the summer season approaching, police are steeling themselves for an avalanche of complaints from foreign residents and holidaymakers claiming they have been burgled or robbed - yet many of these complaints are false and waste valuable police time and resources.

Police now claim that around 30 per cent of reported burglaries and thefts are fraudulent, with many reports of non-existent robberies being made to support large insurance claims.

Guardia Civil and National Police are increasingly under fire from residents because of the rising crime rate, yet they claim to have evidence that many unscrupulous foreign residents file false complaints, which push up the unsolved crime rates and exaggerate the climate of insecurity on the Costa.

One officer said that police will never have a true picture of crime on the Costas until greedy individuals stop trying to rip off their insurers. This has led to insurance companies being swindled out of hundreds of thousands of pounds and premiums being hiked to cover the losses.

A chief police investigator said: "What baffles us is why anybody on a two-week package holiday would bring jewellery worth thousands of pounds and take it to the beach. We now view with equal suspicion those who claim to have been robbed of thousands of pounds in cash while walking around a market - and we note how no one ever loses a cheap camera; it's always a top-range Nikon. The new investigation units will look into all burglaries and robberies where victims claim to have lost exorbitant amounts of cash or belongings. Where we find evidence of fraud, we will severely prosecute those concerned."

ITV between 8 and 9pm, I take it you haven't read the recent articles in Broadcast were it has been suggested that a directive was given to broadcasters just over 18 months ago to stop producing programmes enticing people to purchase property abroad. In fact it was the start of the anti property abroad programmes headed up by Adam Leary. Adam Leary led the attack with "Tonight with Trevor" using his prime time appeal to try and discourage the masses from ditching the UK. Of course it was a great fear that due to the popularity of series such as "A Place in France" and "A Place in the Sun" etc literally hundreds of millions of pounds was leaving UK shores every quarter and this was not good at all for the UK economy. Add to this the fact that the majority were having pensions paid into foriegn bank accounts and this money was not being recycled within the UK. Very bad news indeed and hence the sudden seizure of property abroad programmes and the influx of property abroad horror stories. You'd be a fool to believe that the media wasn't directed by higher powers. Fortunately people make their own mind up without taking any notice of sensationalist media tripe.

Black money. You are right I agreed with you. Sometimes people can agree on points within a debate It wasnt a mistake.

The clampdown is good news for everybody. I dont think it will have a massive effect on the sale of property as it probably accounted for about 1%of applicants and then you dont want people defaulting and being repossesed it simply isnt good for any property market. By regulating lending it stops people over borrowing and getting themselves into a pickle, something the Uk banks should look at doing.

Look the argument that the climate is drier in the UK then your area of the Costa Blanca is absolutely nuts. I cant believe you are arguing this with me. And saying that you had snow and ice and it was freezing in winter....I dont know, may be some kind of meterological miracle has taken place. I suggest you think about this. The fact that a few days in June and July it was hotter in the UK doesnt mean that it is on a par weather wise all year round. Crikey I cant even believe Im having this conversation it is crazy. And to argue that you have central heating now and didnt in your place in Spain just means that you had a cr@p place in Spain. Sorry my villa has a great heating system and is very cosy in winter should the temperatures drop below 15 degrees. I think the low in December for Vera Playa is 10degrees (To put that in context tonight it is 12 degrees here in Brighton so in December it is about this tempreture in the evenings). Also for 3 years running we had Xmas dinner outside in the square with all of our neighbours and all 3 times me and my friends were wearing shorts and t-shirts. I'd like to see you do that in wherever it is you live in the UK.

It is a lot cheaper in Spain than the UK. Granted if you live on chips, pies and sausages then you may find it on par with the UK but if you eat fresh fruit and vegetables and fresh fish and seafood and you drink local wines you can live off of about 30 euros a week. Try eating that healthy in the UK for under £80 a week.
Eating out - about 20 restaurants in our area did a Menu del Dia, 6 courses of fresh food with wine/beer for 8-10 euros. Cant do that in the UK.

You then say I took the cheapest price for a 3 bed house in Spain £120k. Come on. That is 190k euros. Are you telling me that that is below the average price for a 3 bed house taking into account rural areas etc. On the other side a detached property in London for £500k would be very cheap, you must know that. £250k is £50k below the average price of a detached house in the UK. Again I am going on FACT http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_d...html/houses.stm

By the way my Spanish house is made from bricks and mortar and has double glazing throughout. I'm starting to think you bought a real sh@thole in a flippin awful area, I dont blame you for being so bitter.

Let me do your sums for you as well. If I bought a detached property in say Reading, average price of £300k I would pay £9,000 in stamp duty, i would then pay a further £1000 in legal costs. Lets say £10k. If I bought somewhere in Spain for £120k you would pay altogether lets say 10% which is £12k.That is an overestimation of all legal costs and taxes but lets overestmate to keep you happy. The difference is £2k !!!! Then in the UK I pay £1,780 a year in Council Tax, £390 in water rates and £1,900 in service charges every year. Not taking into account higher fuel bills etc. this is £4,070 add to that silly things like road tax and TV licences etc and your talking £4300. In Spain with our 11 euros local tax and 140 euros a year waterrates and 590 euros a year community charges you are looking at around 1000 euros. At my estimation cheaper living would kick in after around 3-4 months and then you would save yourself just on those bills more than £3000 a year. Knock off my gym and swimming pool bills and you get even more savings.


My comment on Wembley was an example of a building project in the UK going well over budget and beyond completion date even with all that money and expertise. The point I was making was that it isnt just Spanish builders that go over completion dates,Crest Nicholson are doing a project in Sussex which has consistently been behind schedule by sometimes up to 18 months. That is 18 months some families have had to wait in rented accomodation past their expected completion dates.It happens in Spain, it happens in France it happens in the UK. That was my point. I know your bitter about your project going wrong in Spain and I fully understand but it isnt a Spanish problem (For this see Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Hackney, London or the Hastings regeneration project (2003 started - recent Norman Foster project shelved and CSA closing office has dealt a huge blow to this).

My point on Devon was that the character of individual seaside towns and villages in Devon is being invaded by mass consumerism as most of Britain has been and as aresult Devon is losing that very essence which makes it so popular to tourists. That was my point.

I live in England and I love England. I intend to live here for the next 10 years at least. I have no connection to the Spanish property market and never have had any connection to it. I simply own a fantastic house in Spain which has brought me money and nothing but good times and all of my neighbours wouldnt swap their dream lives in Spain for the World. As such I find it strange that your views are so different and so feel it necessary for me to paint the picture I see and give people two sides of the argument.

I think it shows people how different their experiences can be if they pick the wrong development in the wrong part of Spain and for that reason it is very good that you can come on this forum and warn people of possible pitfalls. I simply dont want people to think that all of Spain is like that and that for every bad experience I am sure there are many good experiences.

I do understand that you are simply relaying your own experiences and my only concern is that sometimes the attack is made to sound like a general attack on Spain as a whole.

Adi . BBC news this morning .. quote ..spain is calling ou the E.U for help to control the high numbers of north Africans entering Spain in small boats ect ,, they can not deal with high volume ,, i will post again tonight

Allme - you are a fool.

Telling people never to pay more than 25% black money? Only a fool today would pay any black money in Spain today.

Reason? Cash is no longer allowed to be used in transactions and the result is a paper trail of all money paid.

And if you do pay black money it saves the seller tax not the buyer. But then when the hapless buyer comes to sell guess who has an even bigger tax bill? Because they won't get away with black money deals in the future.

Parts of your posts made some sense, but by advising clients to break the law you show yourself to be just one of the many other crooks milking naive Brits for all they are worth.

Spain is over investment wise. We all know that. Especially those of us who own property there and have done so for many years.

I think again this is typical of people trying to slate Spain. Listen if you are thinking about buying in Spain do yourself a favour and look at the facts because one thing I have noticed recently is the ever increasing number of bitter people looking to stop others living the dream or trying to colour their minds. These few have found they cannot afford the places they want or they have fallen out of love with Spain because they couldnt get their hands on a nice egg and chips whilst living out there. They are now back at home and have to convince themselves daily that they made the right move coming back, they do this by watching TV programmes and sensationalising any news.

I take it you read the article or took in the full facts. if you didnt let me explain. Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega the deputy prime minister went to Helsinki the other day to ask the EU for help in combating North Africans landing in the CANARY ISLANDS. In the month of August alone 5000 of them landed on the island this was more than the whole of 2005. This totalled 19,000 this year alone. SPANISH IMMIGRATION IS A TINY PROBLEM COMPARED TO THE UK WHO SO FAR THIS YEAR HAVE ALLOWED MORE THAN 295,000 IMMIGRANTS LEGALLY AND WHO KNOWS HOW MANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THROUGH THEIR BORDERS.

Look I don't want to get into a time wasting tit for tat about our respective polarised views on Spain. I think it is fair to say that you went in search of the dream and didnt find it. Your house sounds like it was badly built and your area sounds like it was ruined by rising crime and bad weather. As often happens once you enter a negative frame of mind you pick up on those things and find yourself mixing with similarly minded people. This in turn gives an impression that a lot of people are "fed up". I am happy to put my hands up and say there are parts of the Costas which have turned sour and crime and corruption are a big problem. And I am sure you are willing to admit as I think you have done in other posts that there are areas of Spain which are not as corrupt and dont suffer from such severe crime. This is a nice equilibrium view of Spain as a whole and shows how important it is to pick the right area.

You mentioned in a previous post about renting and getting a feel for life in Spain and your chosen area first before commiting to a purchase. I think this is great advice Sally and would save some people a lot of heartache. I think this cautious approach makes a lot of sense.

Corruption happens in Spain, and is much more overtly apparent than other countries. As with any area were you have niave people with a lot of cash you will find people willing to take it off of them illegally. I think the main reason for this is the British holiday mentality. They do believe that the Spanish are much more trustworthy than there fellow Brits and will therefore believe that nice friendly laid back Manuel would never rip them off. Unfortunately as you find in every area of the World nowadays you can trust nobody. Be on your guard for cons and tricksters as you would in the UK. I found the majority of the Spanish i met much more open and trustworthy than the English but as always a few would sell there grandmas for a few extra euros.

Cost of living and weather I think we will have to agree to disagree on these points. I must say I do find it more expensive living in the UK but it may depend on what you buy etc. Council Tax is a massive burden which I didnt miss in Spain. I think it is that monthly amount which you have to find. Granted property taxes are higher in Spain but if you have a mortgage it can be added to that and it sort of gets absorbed over a 25 year term. In the UK you have to earn at least £400 a month to just live.

I can tell you still like Spain Sally and that you are simply highlighting points to alert others to things they may not read in the brochures. It really sounds like you had a rough two years out there and I am glad you have found happiness now back in a nice part of the UK. I just think it is fair to add that hundreds of thousands of Brits really did find their dream life in Spain and aren't affected by crime or corruption.

Doricwoman

Spot on, well done, exactly right. If they don't understand the consequences, then it certainly will become just the same thing again.

P&S

Adibrown,

Am I going crazy, Paul said this would happen. Am I talking to the same person? Paul is right, this site is a total waste of time. I only need to answer a couple of your comments from your last post and the one before.

It is strange but you actually seem to remind me of things I had forgotten. Weather, what I actually said WAS WHERE WE WERE (COSTA BLANCA), the winters did not seem that different to where we are now. Now I have said it again, please read it again. The night time temperatures in fact seemed worse. Most of the Costa Blanca has a range of mountains that run a few miles inland down much of its coast. In the months of January and February, it quite often snows on these mountains and sometimes even down to sea level i.e. snow has been seen in Benidorm. When a north or westerly wind blows, it blows icy cold. I can remember the winter just before we left going up past Terra Mitica, there was ice on the road on several of the roundabouts that had waterfall features. I can remember one or two days where we actually had ice on the windows of the cars and our small pond in our garden was frozen over. You say in an earlier post, everyone knows that the closer you get to the equator, the warmer the temperatures. So how do you explain Madrid having -10 degrees regularly in the winter or parts of North Africa dropping down to below freezing at night. Lots of other countries which are much closer to the equator than the U.K. and have far colder winters than we do. If you have got mountains around, then you can expect to have cold winds coming off them in the winter. Which reminds me, the winds on the Costa Blanca can be horrendous. I remember when we had the hurricane in Kent, I would say at least 3 or 4 times through each of the winters we were there, we had winds that were not far off the one that hit Kent i.e. tiles off, trees down, it even lifted someones' shed and dumped it 60 foot away in the swimming pool. The average night time temperature for the Costa Blanca is November & December - 7 degrees, January 5 degrees, February 6 degrees. Does that sound much different to the south coast of England? If you want to confirm this, visit infocostablanca.com/uk/clima.htm The rainfall as you will see 5/6 days a month for January and February. Here was almost zero for the two months. So it shows you know very little about Spanish weather. Maybe where you live in Spain it is totally different but we were not talking about there, that was made totally clear to anyone that read our post.

Now a couple of things that you have reminded about. You said about not paying for a T.V. license in Spain. You don't have to pay it here if you don't watch it!! If you want to watch it in Spain, you will almost certainly need (from Barcelona down) a 1.8 or 2.4 metre dish at a cost of between 800 and 1,200 Euros. How many years T.V. license does that equal. I dare say you only watch Spanish T.V. but most Brits retiring would still like to have their ITV and BBC. There is another system you may know (the pirate) but even this is going to cost you a lot more than a T.V. license and will definitely be closed down by Brussels at some point. Think before you comment. You just put yourself in deeper and deeper.

Thanks very much for reminding me with your post regarding insurance claims and high insurance. Our car insurance (ON THE COSTA BLANCA - NOT ANYWHERE ELSE IN SPAIN) was almost 600 Euros (400 pounds) a year. Yes, we did hunt around for the cheapest. When we returned to the U.K., the same cover (6 years NC, the same in Spain maximum) was 162 pounds (Post Office Insurance). At that time, and still, they give 50 pounds back to new customers. Yes it was the same model car. So that works out to 112 pounds (approx. 160 Euros) - big, big difference. I dare say next year another company with be doing the same deal. Our house insurance was double, but insured for less and less contents cover.

As regards the illegal immigrants (North African - not even part of the E.U. or a country awaiting membership) 19,000 entered the Canaries and then you go on to compare those figures with the whole of the U.K. You then say god knows how many more got into the U.K. undetected. You don't say god knows how many more got into the Canaries undetected or come to that the whole of the rest of Spain which you failed to mention. Who in their right mind would compare one Spanish island with the whole of the U.K. It doesn't make any sense.

This sort of stuff can go on all day but in our opinion, nearly every comment you have made has been completely biased. If anyone on this site is responsible for not making educated comparisons, it is you. Anyone who reads your post will see that the more things are explained to you, the more you tend to try to twist the plain and simple facts that have been posted (not just by us) and the more you tend to disagree in one post, then in the next one seem to agree. I really don't understand what all this is about. Am I talking to the same Adi or am I just talking to some programmed computer or maybe some kiddie having a mess about. I don't know, but the posts are here for all to read. I hope that people can see from our post that things are quire often not what they seem.

Probably won't return to this site as it misses the whole point - GAME UP IN SPAIN

P&S

sorry last line should have read.............[quite often]

AdiBrowntrousertrout

your posts are becoming as asinine as they are irrelevant - not even worth speed-reading anymore.

The point of this forum is to discuss house price trend - not your aimless "I can buy a pizza for 2 euro" ********.

Putting money into Spain right now is far worse than stuffing it in a mattress - might I suggest that it's akin to sticking it up your own butt. Spain is indeed a nice country in many ways (a point you're hammering to death), but only a retard would consider investing for rental or capital appreciation.

Take your posts, roll 'em up, coat 'em in swarfega and thrust! Allme can help you with this.


yours etc
incorrigible onanist

I seem to have touched a raw nerve so I won't go on too much.

I couldnt care less if nobody ever buys in Spain again. I wouldn't care if my house dropped in value to 1p. I've already made my money in Spain and my house is just somewhere to enjoy in old age.

I just get angry when people say "Spain is crime ridden" "Spain is colder in Winter" "Spain is as expensive as the UK" "Spanish houses are badly built" "Spain is corrupt" "Takes ages to sell in Spain" etc etc

Investment wise its probably not the best place to buy for a quick buck. I dont know, I only know about my area and prices are increasing and places are selling.

Good luck to anybody thinking about buying in Spain. Make sure you get good impartial advice and dont listen to the doom and gloom people and likewise dont listen to the Estate Agents and Developers in Spain.

Take it from me I love it in Spain and the people I know out there have never regretted moving to Spain for one minute.

Catemite you are very amusing.

I quite fancy Polaris World when i get older.

Sad, but i just quite fancy it for 6 months a year in the twilight years.

Probably wont do it, just fancy it.

Adibrown,

Can see from your last post that you trully love Spain. I admire you for standing up for what YOU believe in. I really hope that where you are stays the way it is and that the developers and dishonest estate agents don't get there. If you see them coming to the area, give them a boot up the bum and tell them to clear off to wherever they came from.

You may have read in an earlier post that we have friends down in the Valencia region at this moment who were trying to get back their 30,000 Euros deposit on a villa which was in a town called Montroy about 25K inland from Valencia. We had a phone call to say that they had managed to get 30,000 Euros back but no interest even though the paperwork apparently was correct. Don't know exactly what has happened, but we do know that the builders bank account was frozen by the bank and the local mayor is in the nick. They are driving back soon. No doubt he will leave full details and his opinions when we tell him of the existence of this site.

Good luck to you Adi.

P&S

Kitty Kat...well I can help if you really want me too, but cant you get your little boys to pleasure you anymore.....ohh welll

And whats with all the BIG words, are you compensating for something, its ok mate size dos´nt matter.......(yeah right)


And DORIS WOMAN (yes i knw before you jump on this)

Anyway, black money IS ilegal, I have never said any different, but people are people....if someone wants to buy something then no matter what I say they will buy it, I tell all my clients it IS ILLEGAL and there is a maximum of a 4 year jail sentence to as little as a fine.
And as for the buyer saving tax, if you knew what you were talking about you would see
The escritura has the black money figure on it, NOT what is paid....so you as the buyer pay your 7% IVA (TAX) on the lesser figure, which DOES save you TAX,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,dumb wit

I have NEVER EVER advised anyone to break the law, I advise ALL my clients of what happens in Spain.....READ THE ******ING POST MORON, jeezz you people live in a cotton candy field.

Have you ever walked across the street without waiting for the lights....ITS ILLEGAL
Have you ever got a parking ticket............................"let those without sin cast the first stone."

You really are not living in the real world guys, and it is now getting to boring to argue with you...or is it!!!!!!

Dear Adi,

Hope you are well. Just a quick one to say that we dug through our old bills which we bought back from the Costa Blance and we found our water bills. Little bit more expensive than yours, about 210 Euros a year. Our water bill here on the south coast (Kent) is a bit cheaper than your water bills in the U.K. - ponds for Euros 220. So you are right, the water bills are cheaper on the Costa Blanca. But, Oh dear, I forgot something. It is common knowledge that you should not drink the water because of the high mineral content and could in the long term make you very ill. Like everyone else, we bought bottled water for drinking. Please remember I am talking about the Costa Blance, not where you are, it could be totally different there. I remember we used to go through three, maybe four 5 litre bottles a week (tea, coffe, ice cubes plus the dog - did not want her ill either) and I remember that the prices varied from 60 cents to three or four Euros depending on the make. We used to get one which cost us 1 Euro 30 Cents (something around that figure). Guess what, 200 Euros plus a year on bottles water. So that's 440 Euros minimun, all of a sudden even the water is not as cheap as it sounds. Just another one of the things that I was trying to explain to you about why we thought the U.K. was not quite so bad as we thought. I expect where you are it is safe to drink the water and that is why you don't mention this and as far as I am aware, there are many areas in Spain where you are advised not to drink the tap water. But as you know, in the U.K., in most areas, it is totally safe.

Keep up the entertainment, all the best.

P&S

Also living on the Costa Blanca, there are two souurces of drinkable water - bottled from supermarkets (about 10p-15p a litre) or take your own bott