[rob62]

Hi - I am buying a ski apartment in the Tatra Mountains near Poprad. Although the project is a little late progress is being made and should be complete in the summer. The question is is it still going to be a good investment with the current globalturmoil.
I have forward bought the currency at £/euro 1.23 not great but better than at the momement. A large percentage of the units are being bought by Slovaks and Poles - economies that are showing strong growth
It is a gamble but I feel that long term it should be a good buy both as an investment and as a holiday home for our use
Am I mad?

[zilly]

rob62, on Dec 11 2008, 01:46 PM, said:

Hi - I am buying a ski apartment in the Tatra Mountains near Poprad. Although the project is a little late progress is being made and should be complete in the summer. The question is is it still going to be a good investment with the current globalturmoil.
I have forward bought the currency at £/euro 1.23 not great but better than at the momement. A large percentage of the units are being bought by Slovaks and Poles - economies that are showing strong growth
It is a gamble but I feel that long term it should be a good buy both as an investment and as a holiday home for our use
Am I mad?

I don't know. To check, go round to your neighbour's house completely naked and wearing a Groucho Marks false nose and glasses. When he answers the door, hop up and down three times and then run off giggling. If this doesn't phase you - you're probably mad. Lucky bugger.

WRT the apartment, what never made sense for me about buying in Bansko/Borovets in Bulgaria (for comparison purposes)is that there are so many cheap package holidays and that airport transfer to the resorts was very difficult that it really makes no sense to ski there any other way than package. Couple that with a poor indigenous population who could never afford any kind of sensible (by our standard) level of rental, and the fact that skiing in BG is very average and it's pretty clear investment in BG ski resorts was always a duff one unless one paid very little.

If the above isn't true for Slovakia, then you'll be OK - as long as affordable air travel remains available..!

[Caribbean Beauty]

zilly, on Dec 11 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

I don't know. To check, go round to your neighbour's house completely naked and wearing a Groucho Marks false nose and glasses. When he answers the door, hop up and down three times and then run off giggling. If this doesn't phase you - you're probably mad. Lucky bugger.

WRT the apartment, what never made sense for me about buying in Bansko/Borovets in Bulgaria (for comparison purposes)is that there are so many cheap package holidays and that airport transfer to the resorts was very difficult that it really makes no sense to ski there any other way than package. Couple that with a poor indigenous population who could never afford any kind of sensible (by our standard) level of rental, and the fact that skiing in BG is very average and it's pretty clear investment in BG ski resorts was always a duff one unless one paid very little.

If the above isn't true for Slovakia, then you'll be OK - as long as affordable air travel remains available..!

No, he should go around to his neighbours' house dressed as usual and tell them he is buying a ski apartment in SVK - if that does not phase him he is probably mad!

Aviation is the key - with no bums on seats the airlines will be pulling any flights. Plus, skiing is the sport/hobby of middle and upper classes, who have been hit hardest by this 10 year depression which is just getting going - so the OP would enjoy no rentals and long train/donkey rides to get to the apartment within a year or so. Then of course the resort itself will be a ghost town, with no working ski lifts, no eateries etc. The value of the apartment will depend on what any future buyers would pay, so it will likely halve next year then halve again and so on.

If this has any appeal, go for it!

PS - Poland and Slovakia will sink into recession just like eveybody else in this global meltdown, they are only boosted at present with their own internal construction booms fueeled in turn by foreign remittances - both are doomed as will their economies be.

[Fromage Frais]

if you foward bought you have made more money from the currency trade than you are going to make from this house!

Take the profit and run!

[rob62]

Agree with much of what you guys say - the collective wisdom of HPC is valuable!
Would not touch Bulgaria with a barge pole, a poor country far to reliant on cheap air fares to bring the tourists in.

We origanally visited the Tatra region in Slovakia on holiday and fell in love with the place, partly because it isnt overrun by Britsh!. The decision to buy a place was as much a decision of the heart as the head.

Still think that the fundamendals are sound for a good long term investment as the resorts are visted mainly by East Europeans with a few Germans and Austrians who are 3 hours drive away. As the prosperity of the region increases then there will be more disposable income to spend on leisure. As well as sking the area offers summer attractions to hopefully provide a potential income all year round

With the exchange rate it isnt the bargain it first appeared, and I dont expect re-sale prices to increase for at least five years. A long term project!

[Converted Lurker]

zilly, on Dec 11 2008, 01:32 AM, said:

I don't know. To check, go round to your neighbour's house completely naked and wearing a Groucho Marks false nose and glasses. When he answers the door, hop up and down three times and then run off giggling. If this doesn't phase you - you're probably mad. Lucky bugger.

Surely if he does that they'll invite him in, suspecting that he's the local estate agent.

[Caribbean Beauty]

Converted Lurker, on Dec 13 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

Surely if he does that they'll invite him in, suspecting that he's the local estate agent.

[this_prisoner_is_opting_out]

I'm an avid skiier and I wouldn't touch Slovakia/Slovenia/Bulgaria with someone else's! "Owners" are scratching around for business this season so I'm renting somewhere nice in colorado - the chips may be down right now and I'd rather pay peanuts for CO than Slovakia. So, upon reflection - you're mad.

[Ferienwohnung oder Apparte]

Hi! I've been to Tatra Mountains once and it's very beautiful. You're lucky to have bought a ski apartment there. I think it's a nice investment.

[Agentimmo]

I also ski a little. These places might - and that's a big leap of faith - become popular in 20 years time or more. I ski in France. They, like the Swiss, Austrians and Italians have the Alps and pretty much all the trafic. Eastern Europe would have to be exceptional to attract the punters away. Problem is, it isn't.
Poor roads and infrastructure. Poor marketing. Poor build quality.
If I want exceptional, I can go to the US.

A word of warning re; your purchase. A lot of French resorts were financed by the same method ie. getting punters to buy off plan at new resorts. Through time, they failed. After clearing the debts, the big players came in, finished the job and kept the profits. I suspect the same will be of many places in Eastern Europe. Bansko looks like one today.

As someone else said. You got a great rate. Take the profit now, would also be my advice. (Unless you plan to stay/live in the place yourself for a long period of time...........)

[catara]

Agentimmo, on Jan 8 2009, 05:27 PM, said:

I also ski a little. These places might - and that's a big leap of faith - become popular in 20 years time or more. I ski in France. They, like the Swiss, Austrians and Italians have the Alps and pretty much all the trafic. Eastern Europe would have to be exceptional to attract the punters away. Problem is, it isn't.
Poor roads and infrastructure. Poor marketing. Poor build quality.
If I want exceptional, I can go to the US.


As someone else said. You got a great rate. Take the profit now, would also be my advice. (Unless you plan to stay/live in the place yourself for a long period of time...........)

I went last week skiing in Adelboden, Crans Montana and Wengen. I would not trade the Alps skiing with Eastern European skiing, they are in different classes. Yes, Swizerland is very expensive (eventhough a 580 SFR rental for
Christmas week is not bad).

The only places worth skiing are in the NOrthern Hemisphere are Alps, Whistler, Colorado, Utah and Lake Tahoe region.

[markinspain]

catara, on Jan 9 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

I went last week skiing in Adelboden, Crans Montana and Wengen. I would not trade the Alps skiing with Eastern European skiing, they are in different classes. Yes, Swizerland is very expensive (eventhough a 580 SFR rental for
Christmas week is not bad).

The only places worth skiing are in the NOrthern Hemisphere are Alps, Whistler, Colorado, Utah and Lake Tahoe region.

You need to add the Black Mountains in New Hampshire and Vermont to your list. Best skiing ever without queues. Only down side is apres ski which is limited and somebody usually has to drive.

[rob62]

Hi - thanks for the advice everyone.
For the time being I am sticking with the purchase.
While I fully except that the sking is not up to North American standards, the area primarily targets East Europeans and Austrians/ Germans who are able to drive to the Tatra Mountains in a few hours on the newly constructed motorways. In other words "casual"weekend visitors rather than Western "hardcore" skiers.
The area is not well known to the British which actually is part of the attraction for me, the last thing I want on holiday is fish and chips and carling!
Additionally the area has a strong summer trade based around walking and sightseeing of historic castles etc. and thermal spas.
One concern I have is whether too much accommodation is being planned which if not controlled could affect the beauty of the place.
Anyway I am other there in May to have a look at progress and build quality etc.
No more money is due till completion so I have plenty of time to mull over my options
Regards
Rob

[Peter Hun]

rob62, on Jan 9 2009, 04:32 PM, said:

Hi - thanks for the advice everyone.
For the time being I am sticking with the purchase.
While I fully except that the sking is not up to North American standards, the area primarily targets East Europeans and Austrians/ Germans who are able to drive to the Tatra Mountains in a few hours on the newly constructed motorways. In other words "casual"weekend visitors rather than Western "hardcore" skiers.
The area is not well known to the British which actually is part of the attraction for me, the last thing I want on holiday is fish and chips and carling!
Additionally the area has a strong summer trade based around walking and sightseeing of historic castles etc. and thermal spas.
One concern I have is whether too much accommodation is being planned which if not controlled could affect the beauty of the place.
Anyway I am other there in May to have a look at progress and build quality etc.
No more money is due till completion so I have plenty of time to mull over my options
Regards
Rob

By all means go ahead, but don't expect it ever to improve as a ski destination. I'm moving to Krakow and expect to enjoy the Tatra mountain skiing but the mountains are simply not up to the standard of the Alps by a very long way. Poprad isn't a ski resort either, so it will be of zero interest to skiiers - you don't pay for accommodation more that a few hundred meters from the slopes.

The Alps, BTW are well know to the British but in no way over run by them and I've never been to resort (from many, Swiss, French, Italian or Austria) with Fish and Chips or Carling. I don't know where you got that impression from, skiing doesn't get that sort of visitor or resort.

This post has been edited by Peter Hun: 10 January 2009 - 09:39 PM

[RichB]

I guess the advantage is that when you get burned, you can roll in the snow...