Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

French Property


  • Please log in to reply
2092 replies to this topic

#1 picnic

picnic

    HPC Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 30 July 2008 - 09:41 AM

cut and paste if link fails.....a good summary of the current market in France.

http://www.expatica....in-the-sun.html

#2 picnic

picnic

    HPC Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 09 August 2008 - 03:42 PM

Almost 2 weeks and no rebuttal?? !!

It seems the french market is dead in the water and the only people talking the market up are AGENTS.

I even recognise the ''house style'' of one of the posters, (VEF ? ) A plausable almost convincing speel, but totally illogical!

Thankfully most of the agents are small beer so will not be lost by anybody except perhaps their workers.

#3 Happysort

Happysort

    HPC Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:29 AM

Almost 2 weeks and no rebuttal?? !!

It seems the french market is dead in the water and the only people talking the market up are AGENTS.

I even recognise the ''house style'' of one of the posters, (VEF ? ) A plausable almost convincing speel, but totally illogical!

Thankfully most of the agents are small beer so will not be lost by anybody except perhaps their workers.


Hello Picnic

Just a quick note to make you feel the effort in pasting is worthwhile !

If you look at the other thread about French property you'll see these issues are being thrashed out.

Having said that, there really isn't a lot to debate. The market is flat in parts, and declining in other areas.

I've re

#4 Happysort

Happysort

    HPC Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:51 AM

Hello Picnic

Just a quick note to make you feel the effort in pasting is worthwhile !

If you look at the other thread about French property you'll see these issues are being thrashed out.

Having said that, there really isn't a lot to debate. The market is flat in parts, and declining in other areas.

I've re



Hi again Picnic. Sorry about the truncated reply above - not sure what happened.

I've read the article - don't know what to say really. I agree with some bits, find others amusing, and some parts I disagree with.

A few obvious thoughts -

a. I smile at all these experts now stating that they have brillantly analysed that the market is at best stagnant. In some cases as recently as a few weeks back they were still predicting increases overall for 2008 when even a bluebottle could have told them otherwise. They certainly have 20/20 vision in hindsight !

b. Outside of the major metropolitan areas, only a hopeless optimist (or an EA) could possibly have thought French prices would remain totally immune from the Uk and USA troubles. In vast areas of rural France foreign buyers are a very major factor in the local housing markets and indeed the local economy. Many of these fund their purchases and renovations based upon second mortgages secured upon perceptions of the value of the main home in the UK or sometimes holland/germany etc. Given also a high turnover (the figures I have seen suggest around 30% of UK buyers try to sell again in 2 years or less) having a constant supply of new British and other foreign buyers with money in their pockets and the confidence to spend it, was essential in maintaining French rural prices. If these buyers suddenly lost confidence that their UK finances were secure, what did French market experts think would happen ? The 'UK buyers' of course would vanish which would drive prices down !

This happened in the 3rd / 4th qtr 2007 in our general region. The foreign buyers practically vanished overnight. So, how in even mid 2008 people could keep arguing this would have no effect is entirely beyond me ! It's also worth noting that this is having a knock-on effect on French buyers. That's because a lot of rennovation, decoration and landscaping work here has simply vanished along with the British buyers and renovators. Many local artizans are saying their business has declined 50% overnight. Some are saying they have little or no work at all because so much of their business was built around British custom. This means that the local economy suffers and some French people contemplating buying also have 'the jitters' and are not doing so.

c. I've said on the other thread that my hunch is that prices though may stabilise towards year end and perhaps even pick up later in the year or earlier in 2009. I think that because in my opinion French housing outside major centres continues to offer fantastic value for money virtually unique now in western europe. I think those buyers around will start to believe that it may not be worth putting their plans on hold for say another 12 months just in the hope of saving another say 3000euros via decline over time if the price currently is already reasonable and a bargain by UK standards. Hard to know - we'll see.

Cheers;

#5 babbles

babbles

    HPC Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Location:Lancashire

Posted 18 August 2008 - 05:03 PM

We lived in France for 5 years, now back in the UK. We moved at the right time, given the state of the exchange rate. Had we made the move now, we would be living in a caravan. The housing market was already slowing down a few years ago, with agents finding buyers thin on the ground and we consider ourselves very lucky to have found buyers. Lowering agency fees might encourage more people to buy.

#6 amoflaherty

amoflaherty

    HPC Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 27 posts

Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:39 PM

We lived in France for 5 years, now back in the UK. We moved at the right time, given the state of the exchange rate. Had we made the move now, we would be living in a caravan. The housing market was already slowing down a few years ago, with agents finding buyers thin on the ground and we consider ourselves very lucky to have found buyers. Lowering agency fees might encourage more people to buy.


hi - would you mind sharing which part of France you relocated to and why you moved back to UK after so many years ?

I thought once you made it past the first couple of years then coming back to UK isn't the norm. We are planning to re-locate next year to SW France (between Pau and Biarritz) - plan to rent there initially to see how we feel before making commitment to buy.

#7 picnic

picnic

    HPC Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 04 May 2009 - 03:33 PM

Well this is a quiet place....nothing posted since AMO...in Auguast 08 !

I am still getting ******** emails saying it is a good time to buy inParis or France which is just total nonsence.

VEF finally bit the dust and no doubt other less well outfits have gone too. If the French market had been as boyant as they said they would still be in business.
Obviously I hope they all find new jobs.

ParlerParis are another outfit trying to promote overpriced Paris property but their target market is the USA...

There is still no regulation of property advice......
In short, don't touch the French market for at least 2 years.

This advice is free, and I will not bill you for 100,s of $$$$$$$$

#8 whiterabbit

whiterabbit

    HPC Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts

Posted 05 May 2009 - 01:38 PM

Well this is a quiet place....nothing posted since AMO...in Auguast 08 !

I am still getting ******** emails saying it is a good time to buy inParis or France which is just total nonsence.

VEF finally bit the dust and no doubt other less well outfits have gone too. If the French market had been as boyant as they said they would still be in business.
Obviously I hope they all find new jobs.

ParlerParis are another outfit trying to promote overpriced Paris property but their target market is the USA...

There is still no regulation of property advice......
In short, don't touch the French market for at least 2 years.

This advice is free, and I will not bill you for 100,s of $$$$$$$$


Are VEF out of business? I still see their web site is up?

#9 Guest_redwine_*

Guest_redwine_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 May 2009 - 03:21 PM

Well this is a quiet place....nothing posted since AMO...in Auguast 08 !

I am still getting ******** emails saying it is a good time to buy inParis or France which is just total nonsence.

VEF finally bit the dust and no doubt other less well outfits have gone too. If the French market had been as boyant as they said they would still be in business.
Obviously I hope they all find new jobs.

ParlerParis are another outfit trying to promote overpriced Paris property but their target market is the USA...

There is still no regulation of property advice......
In short, don't touch the French market for at least 2 years.

This advice is free, and I will not bill you for 100,s of $$$$$$$$

good post total silence here in france where i live everything is for sale houses factories flats but nothing is selling !!last week i counted in the local free advert paper over 200 houses to sell after just the first four pages then i stopped to tireing. the mother in law (french) has a flat for sale here been on the market for over two years now .nobody is interested

#10 Agentimmo

Agentimmo

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,225 posts
  • Location:France. South Of.

Posted 06 May 2009 - 02:50 PM

good post total silence here in france where i live everything is for sale houses factories flats but nothing is selling !!last week i counted in the local free advert paper over 200 houses to sell after just the first four pages then i stopped to tireing. the mother in law (french) has a flat for sale here been on the market for over two years now .nobody is interested


Agree. I was at the Belle Mere's place in Montpellier last week for a visit. Plenty of people trying to sell. Lot's of new build that look like prisons near the site of the new Mairie (town hall). There's a really horrible building that looks like a stack of freight containers... :huh: ...These promoters will get burnt unless they slash prices, imo. Anyway, the local freesheets are also full of private sales. I saw some places that are 20min drive from MTP , nice big villas, for 250K , that are still not shifting. According to my sis-in-law, who is local and earns local wages, no-one can afford them even at those prices. Why ? Well, their own appts have taken such a hit in the last 12 months and not many banks will finance the shortfall unless you have 25% deposits.

Watch the market dive even further after the summer period ends. ie. October............ ;)

#11 Smog

Smog

    HPC Poster

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts
  • Location:France

Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:50 PM

Agreed about Autumn being ripe for some big falls....

Was in the Var last week doing a bit of a reconaissance, every single estate agents I looked in was deserted, bar none, local property mags full to the brim. One really telling sight was a home-made "for sale" sign for a 4 bed detached villa on 25 ares between St. Maxime and Grimaud - now if people are resorting to this for "prime" property like that it must be getting bad.

I reckon some cheeky offers for land in that area in Autumn may be on the cards for me.

#12 Wannabe

Wannabe

    HPC Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 395 posts
  • Location:Cognac, France
  • About Me:Living & Loving

Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:42 PM

Agreed about Autumn being ripe for some big falls....

Was in the Var last week doing a bit of a reconaissance, every single estate agents I looked in was deserted, bar none, local property mags full to the brim. One really telling sight was a home-made "for sale" sign for a 4 bed detached villa on 25 ares between St. Maxime and Grimaud - now if people are resorting to this for "prime" property like that it must be getting bad.

I reckon some cheeky offers for land in that area in Autumn may be on the cards for me.



If I were you I'd focus your attention on British sellers - they're the ones hardest hit by the currency movements. Also, you tend to get a better style of restoration/refurb than an French seller. I've seen posting on various expat forums that are eye-wateringly desparate.

French sellers are very, VERY patient when it comes to selling houses. Our local Franch plumber (nr. Cognac, Dept 16) has had a small commercial site with 3 buildings on it up for 160k for 18 months now. I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago and said - 'Why don't you reduce the price - it might sell quicker?'

He looked at me as if I'd asked his wife for a BJ... I've told him I 'might' be interested at about 90k.

They all think that the Brits are all absolutely loaded and prepared to pay top dollar (or Euro I guess...)

Don't forget to try local Notaires (solicitors) as they often have properties for sale and charge lower fees than immobiliers.

As a general rule, I'd make an initial offer at 30% below asking price and work towards 20% if you have to.
"Money can't buy you happiness, but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery" .......Spike Milligan...

"Socialism is not so much a political philosophy as a psychiatric condition".......Anon 2009...

#13 whojamaflip

whojamaflip

    HPC Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 482 posts
  • Location:zurich

Posted 06 May 2009 - 06:03 PM

anyone got info on the muhouse area (tgv to zurich).

something cheap <100keur land or wrecks ;)

#14 Agentimmo

Agentimmo

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,225 posts
  • Location:France. South Of.

Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:41 AM

If I were you I'd focus your attention on British sellers - they're the ones hardest hit by the currency movements. Also, you tend to get a better style of restoration/refurb than an French seller. I've seen posting on various expat forums that are eye-wateringly desparate.

French sellers are very, VERY patient when it comes to selling houses. Our local Franch plumber (nr. Cognac, Dept 16) has had a small commercial site with 3 buildings on it up for 160k for 18 months now. I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago and said - 'Why don't you reduce the price - it might sell quicker?'

He looked at me as if I'd asked his wife for a BJ... I've told him I 'might' be interested at about 90k.

They all think that the Brits are all absolutely loaded and prepared to pay top dollar (or Euro I guess...)

Don't forget to try local Notaires (solicitors) as they often have properties for sale and charge lower fees than immobiliers.

As a general rule, I'd make an initial offer at 30% below asking price and work towards 20% if you have to.


Agree with your anecdotal above. If the man is self-employed and not a forced seller, then he's going to take his time. Check with him every 3 months to see if he relents....but don't contact him during the summer as he's probably expecting some bids at this period as this is very much the most active time of the French market. Sept/October is when reality tends to set in..... ;)

As for you initial offer...yes, that figure seems about right. But only if you really want to buy in the next 6-9 months. Patience in the French rural/semi-rural market pays. Come the end of 2009, when all these Brit owners still can't sell after > 1 yr on the market, they will drop the price. And the exchange rate will play a part. 3 months ago, it was near parity. Now the rate has risen 10% (reducing any currency profit by 10%). If the pound continues to strengthen, sellers might be prepared to cut further to ensure a sale at a "better" rate. If we get back to 1=1.25, that's quite a hit.

#15 Guest_redwine_*

Guest_redwine_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:42 AM

anyone got info on the muhouse area (tgv to zurich).

something cheap <100keur land or wrecks ;)

where i live the dept 01 ain they are building a new tgv line to geneva , everybody seems to think that it will put the value of your house up as we can all pop onto the train and go and work in geneva .i have a friend who has just been laid - off at geneva airport due to the down turn in air traffic !i dont about mulhouse but here the tgv to geneva is going to rocket the price of your house the french call it the tgv effect or something like that be warned !




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users