[dissident junk]

That is a phenomenal lecture by Elizabeth Warren.

Just a note about the suburbs .... I don't think it is an answer to say 'move closer to work'. The way that the last forty years of planning in the UK has gone, my response to that would be 'how?' Outside of London, there just isn't huge viable swathes of family accomodation within walking or biking distance to centres of business and commerce -- in most cases, there is hardly any accomodation at all. The city centre flat boom was supposed to be about pulling childless people into city centres, and look how that has turned out.

The other difficulty, particularly where I am in Yorkshire, is that a) post 50s housing was built without decent access to public transport in the first place, areas that had public transport access in the early 20th century had stations and rails ripped up in the late 50s and early 60s with the move to the car and c) people lived nearer to work because workplaces were nearer to their homes.

It is the last point that I think is key. It is not so much that we live further away from work, but that workplaces have moved further away from us -- as have shopping facilities, lesiure facilities, food outlets. The office bods one or two generations ago worked in offices in the local town five miles away, now that strata finds their jobs are located in the nearest city twenty miles away. Local work has all but dried up with the death of manufacturing -- which once not only supplied blue collar work but also ran offices that needed white collar staff. We have the rise of the out of town retail park that have replaced the local high streets, the mega supermarkets that have driven the baker down the road out of business, the rise of cinema complexes with eight screens that are ten miles away, where once your local flea pit was just down the road.

It is the replacement of community facilities and workplaces with 'destination' leisure and shopping parks, and the concentration of commerce and business to city locations that is the problem, I feel.

[Velgud]

Many thanks for the link DrBubb, great find, I'm watching it now

[What's'isname]

stevebrowne, on Apr 21 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

I have had this story printed out for many years now:

http://www.protolink...nFisherman.html

Yes, one of my favourites. One of things that got me out of wage-slavery and (eventually) working from home.

[Son of Taeper]

bugged bunny, on Apr 21 2008, 09:33 AM, said:

public transport is not economical at present, and it's so unreliable. Plus, I enjoy driving out of the city. But I realise that this isn't going to last.

Tomorrow I have an interview for a job 10 mins drive away (going against the traffic) or a 30 min walk, and would be prepared to compromise on starting salary for the improvement to quality of life that this would bring.

Must admit the only reason I don't get another job is because this one is sooo close. 5 mins tops door to door. Like you, I don't need the car but at two tankfulls a year why not?
Good luck with the job!

General Melchett, on Apr 21 2008, 09:49 AM, said:

Now I work at home. I'm richer, less stressed, have more free time,

I never realised how stressed I was getting until I got a job on my doorstep

DrBubb, on Apr 21 2008, 10:05 AM, said:

Probably none have you have read the threads on GEI about Cleveland and Detroit.
One of the posters there points out that properties close to efficient public transport have fallen very little,
or much less than suburban properties requiring long commutes.

The press hasnt discussed this much, but it is something to watch out for.

Read it only this morning
It's all about location and communication.
When Maidenhead was chosen as one end of the cross rail link the builders moved in and snapped up every spare piece of land they could. All as close to the railway as possible
Thing is, Maidenhead has been going South for a while to my mind and the clever money has been moving across the river to Bucks, in particular Bourne End, Flackwell Heath and Marlow. Why? Well, good schooling was one reason but another is that there is a branch line that not only feeds into Maidenhead, but chances are one will not even have to change platform. Brilliant!

[DrBubb]

VeryMeanReversion, on Apr 21 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

I'll get worried about petrol prices if oil gets around x5 more expensive. However, there will be riots before then and the tax will come down to partially compensate.

In a house price crash, it doesn't matter getting poorer if you are richer than your neighbours that can no longer compete for housing resources on an achievable-debt basis.

Dont rule out a 5x or even 10x increase, especially if Sterling falls sharply,
And the riots, if they come, will not add to supply. They will just highlight people's need to rethink
their transport arrangements.

Being better off than your neighbors will be someahat helpful. But it is now a global competition, and since
the UK has pissed away its North Sea oil with little to show for it, the Uk will simply have to pony up the
global oil price and encourage its people to consume less oil through tax policies

[harris]

I assume that those commenting on public transport being more expensive than running a car don't live in London. A Zone 1-4 travelcard is about £1,300 a year, or £3.56 a day. Sure you need a car sometimes, but that's what taxis and rental cars are for. You don't have to buy into must have a car mentality.

[DrBubb]

impatient_mug, on Apr 21 2008, 10:38 AM, said:

But... but.. Where will our kids run around? How will we avoid having to listen to our neighbors music or TV, or them listening to ours? How will we get up the 35 flights of stairs in our Benidorm-esque high-rise monstrosities if we strain an ankle and the lifts break down? Anyone enjoy sitting in the garden, or having BBQs? Try doing that on a 6gt balcony overshadowed by the 40 above you, the building across the street etc.

We may well have to abandon the suburbs/country and cram in to inner-city slums, but I really don't understand how anyone can think this is a good thing.

Ho hum. You havent tried it. See Caribbean Coast living

As I type this, I have Bloomberg going on my flat screen TV, but if I turn to the left, I have an amazing view from the 57th floor. I have a 180 degree view of the harbour, with the world's finest airport in the distance, and some nice clorful lights twinkling in the distance.

It was warm here, when I walked back from the MTR stop, so I opened the sliding door to thhe balcony, and turned on the ceiling fan. I now have a nice gentle breeze, and use far less power than if I fired up the air conditioning. It's a nice pleasant night, and I enjoy my high density living, even if I have 5,000 flats in the same development

This post has been edited by DrBubb: 21 April 2008 - 02:50 PM

[harris]

DrBubb, on Apr 21 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

Ho hum. You havent tried it. See Caribbean Coast living

As I type this, I have Bloomberg going on my flat screen TV, but if I turn to the left, I have an amazing view from the 57th floor. I have a 180 degree view of the harbour, with the world's finest airport in the distance, and some nice clorful lights twinkling in the distance.

It was warm here, when I walked back from the MTR stop, so I opened the sliding door to thhe balcony, and turned on the ceiling fan. I now have a nice gentle breeze, and use far less power than if I fired up the air conditioning. It's a nice pleasant night, and I enjoy my high density living, even if I have 5,000 flats in the same development

Sounds very nice. Did you remember to pick up a tart in Wanchai on the way home?

[The Masked Tulip]

Bangeromics (spellinmg?) - the more I learn about it the more it makes sense.

[DrBubb]

dissident junk, on Apr 21 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

That is a phenomenal lecture by Elizabeth Warren.

Just a note about the suburbs .... I don't think it is an answer to say 'move closer to work'. The way that the last forty years of planning in the UK has gone, my response to that would be 'how?' Outside of London, there just isn't huge viable swathes of family accomodation within walking or biking distance to centres of business and commerce -- in most cases, there is hardly any accomodation at all. The city centre flat boom was supposed to be about pulling childless people into city centres, and look how that has turned out.

How has that "turned out"?
The story isnt over yet. They are a glut now, sure.
But a smart contrarian move might be to buy several such flats if they get really cheap
in 2-3 years time.

dissident junk, on Apr 21 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

The other difficulty, particularly where I am in Yorkshire, is that a) post 50s housing was built without decent access to public transport in the first place, areas that had public transport access in the early 20th century had stations and rails ripped up in the late 50s and early 60s with the move to the car

I agree. Where that happen, it was a tragedy.
By the way, my summary of New Urbanism include just two big ideas:
+ Cars are last (neighborhoods should be designed for happy pedestrians, not happy cars).
+ Mixed use (Residential and commercial places should be in close proximity to each other
see : Lectures

dissident junk, on Apr 21 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

It is the replacement of community facilities and workplaces with 'destination' leisure and shopping parks, and the concentration of commerce and business to city locations that is the problem, I feel.

I agree totally.
The city planners need to redicover New Urbanist ideas

[Saving For a Space Ship]

The Masked Tulip, on Apr 21 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

Bangeromics (spellinmg?) - the more I learn about it the more it makes sense.

indeed
http://bangernomics.tripod.com/

hypermiling too
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Hypermiling

[DrBubb]

Saving For a Space Ship, on Apr 21 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

indeed
http://bangernomics.tripod.com/

hypermiling too
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Hypermiling

The Bangernomics Code
Bangernomics contrasts the absurd expense of buying new with the supreme good sense of buying used. Bangernomics will show the mechanically bewildered how to buy a safe durable car and save loads of money. Bangernomics is all about motoring at the blunt end. Bangernomics means never being fussy about what you drive. Bangernomics is a way of life but always beware of the dog.

I is part of the Value-for-Money challenge the world will be facing...

How do you maintain a decent living standard, and good quality of life, when your money buys less.

Living closer to where you live, and getting by without an expensive motorcar (which consumes loads of expensive petrol)
will be an important part of the answer.

If you have a family, ask your kids:
+ Would you be willing to give up the car and the yard, and use the playground, buses, and the tube?
+ These sacrifices may be necessary, and consider what you gain: less stress, and lower expense, and more time

This post has been edited by DrBubb: 22 April 2008 - 01:00 AM

[DrBubb]

Dubai, on Apr 22 2008, 12:41 AM, said:

(Readers who are good at math will already be asking questions. The average wage in Britain today is only 23,177. In terms of gold, wages have gone nowhere for the last 37 years.)

According to our source, the typical American workingman in the late 19th century was already earning considerably more than an Englishman - 25 ounces of gold per year, rather than 14. He, too, became much richer as the industrial revolution progressed. By 1971, he was earning the equivalent of 82 ounces of gold, worth $76,000 today. But then he forgot his lessons. He stopped saving…his income fell…and his dollar dropped. Adjusting the average hourly wage for consumer price inflation, he earns slightly less today than he did during the Carter administration. Adjusting his wages to the fall of the euro, we find the average American earns less than the average Frenchman. And adjusting his wages to gold and we see he has lost a half century of wage progress. Today, he earns only the equivalent of 40 ounces of gold - or only about $38,000.

The rest at.....


http://www.dailyreck...8/DR041808.html

Lost a half century of wage progress !
I must pinch this for the other thread

[okonu]

impatient_mug, on Apr 21 2008, 09:38 AM, said:

But... but.. Where will our kids run around? How will we avoid having to listen to our neighbors music or TV, or them listening to ours? How will we get up the 35 flights of stairs in our Benidorm-esque high-rise monstrosities if we strain an ankle and the lifts break down? Anyone enjoy sitting in the garden, or having BBQs? Try doing that on a 6gt balcony overshadowed by the 40 above you, the building across the street etc.

We may well have to abandon the suburbs/country and cram in to inner-city slums, but I really don't understand how anyone can think this is a good thing.

I also live in Hong Kong. In a 2500 sq ft flat. About 50 metres down the road is the botanical gardens. Kids walk to school. I have a 250 sq foot balcony for BBQ's and sitting on. It's on the second floor, so I usually take the stairs. It's a 15-20 minute walk to centre of town, or a quick bus ride. We don't bother with a car, taxis work out cheaper when fully costed - and more convenient (parking, not being able to drink in evenings etc)

Well, for me and my family, it is a good thing

[VeryMeanReversion]

DrBubb, on Apr 21 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Dont rule out a 5x or even 10x increase, especially if Sterling falls sharply,

I was reading "Trillion Dollar Meltdown" last night, a 5x price increase happened back in the US in the 70's. I do live on a bus route (direct to work) and can stash/restore the cars until prices drop again. If battery technology improves, they can even be converted. My cars are relatively lightweight, a lot more can come off and they only need a 30 mile range.

Has anybody on your GEI site come up with an engine-shaped electric motor that I can drop into the exiting mounts? The batteries can go in/under the boot, I never use it anyway.

An electric motor that is a drop-in substitute for the petrol motor would be the easiest fit. Reuse the rest of the drive train, spread the batteries around to keep a 50/50 weight distribution and job done. Start with MX5s, they are light with long-life mechanicals and made in mega-volumes, a decent market for an electric-engine maker.

The Tesla sports car has a 200+ mile range, 50 miles with a lighter/cheaper battery pack should be easy. Compelling employers to provide recharching at work and the effective range doubles. Problem solved.

DrBubb, on Apr 21 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Being better off than your neighbors will be someahat helpful. But it is now a global competition, and since
the UK has pissed away its North Sea oil with little to show for it, the Uk will simply have to pony up the
global oil price and encourage its people to consume less oil through tax policies

I realised this a while ago. However, since I dont live much of an international lifestyle, I'm more concerned with relative wealth with those competing for housing resources around me. Mr Chindia may want London houses in the future but won't be bidding up local house prices.


VMR.