The Tower - Bbc1 - Social Division In London

[MRMX9]

Very interesting programme on BBC1 about the construction of a new block of luxury riverside apartments in Deptford and the impact it has on the surrounding council estate which is full of interesting characters and unsurprisingly many drug addicts. Its an 8 part series looking at the story over the last 3 years - should be interesting.

Already had the Sloaney marketing department on from the developers discussing how they can make Deptford seem more upmarket i.e. Costa Coffees and Italian restaurants seem to be the key essential!

[Chriso]

Yeah good looking programme this. First off, the bloke with that gobby wife, poor lad.

I see this area of London as follows

To Present - Area 'invested', the buyers believe due to regeneration but its all cheap credit

to 2008 - The London boom slows but still shows plus gains, wiht 'capital gains' making highest interest rates bearable.

to 2009 - The steam runs out and the massive credit crunch and real crash begins, the 'investors' are set back into 'neutral or negative equity'

to 2010 - As the recession sets in, and unemployment up, the desirability of being in one of the poorest areas of London begins to evaporate. Those can afford to retreat back to the suberbs do so, the rest contemplate whay they lost everything on a council tower block.

to 2012 - As the flats are abandoned in mass, they slowly begin to be overtaken by squattors, putting further pressure on the existing 'owners'.

to 2014 - The government announce plans to regenreate social housing and the block is handed back to the council. And the whole sorry 18 year cycle starts again. Roll on 2026

What does everyone else think?

[@contradevian]

Very interesting programme on BBC1 about the construction of a new block of luxury riverside apartments in Deptford and the impact it has on the surrounding council estate which is full of interesting characters and unsurprisingly many drug addicts. Its an 8 part series looking at the story over the last 3 years - should be interesting.

Already had the Sloaney marketing department on from the developers discussing how they can make Deptford seem more upmarket i.e. Costa Coffees and Italian restaurants seem to be the key essential!

I think an in depth investigation of Lewisham Council would have been a more interesting programme.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/02/305021.html

Tenants in this late phase have been doubly-disadvantaged - not refurbished for several years, neglected by Council in maintenance and repairs (harassment by neglect to force them out of their homes), lose their Council secure tenancy. And to top it all, are not only being forced out of their homes, but being forced off their estate and out of the local community where they belong.

Tenants who have been kicked out of their homes and turfed off the estate, have no guaranteed right of return to the estate.

Within the unwanted new development, Hyde is offering first letting to Lewisham (no such guarantees on subsequent lettings). What tenant would wish voluntarily to transfer a secure tenancy, to an insecure tenancy under a landlord over who they have no control, at a higher rent?

To see how bad housing association tenancies are compared with council tenancies, look no further than Pavilion Housing Association in north east Hampshire. Hyde also operate in NE Hants, and they are seen locally as no better than Pavilion.

An unusual feature of Pepys, is that it utilises waste heat from power stations. The new blocks already built by Hyde, do not, they have individual gas-fired central heating, thus the Hyde tenants face higher occupancy costs. Unlike the blocks they replace, or will replace, the Hyde blocks lack the views of either the river or the parkland. And to add insult to injury, a higher rent will be charged.

Edited June 25, 2007 by rover2000

[Saving For a Space Ship]

This Tower was discussed some time ago on hpc

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...ic=39101&hl

Damn, shame I missed that doc.

I have mates in the nearby council tower block.

Local Pepys estate residents are blighted by considerable noise & vibration from the big scrapyard, crime, vandalism, pollution from the Selchp incinerator and regeneration / tenant group fraud.

Last thing they needed was a yuppie invasion, stealing their property. This was just the start btw.

There are 3 bigger towers (up to 140m tall) & thousands of flats planned to be build next door in the old 'Convoy Wharf' site which was owned by Rupert Murdoch group.

Richard Roger design

http://www.rsh-p.com/render.aspx?siteID=1&...=1,4,22,132,134

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=221231

"GIANT riverside developments bigger than anything previously undertaken on the banks of the Thames are set to change the London riverscape. Convoys Wharf, a 40-acre site on the Deptford waterfront once owned by Rupert Murdoch's News International, is to be turned into a huge mixed-use community of homes, businesses and leisure facilities - more than three million square feet in total.

About 3,500 flats are planned, 35 per cent of which will be affordable.

Olympia Warehouse, a listed early Victorian cast-iron building, will be refurbished and three skyscrapers built. Cultural and community facilities are part of the masterplan, as well as public piazzas, a Thames promenade, and boarding points for river buses to Greenwich and Charing Cross.

Used most recently as a storage depot, the historic site was one of Henry VIII's naval dockyards and has been closed to the public for decades. "

------------------------------

http://library.digiguide.com/lib/uk-tv-hig...t/The+Tower-712

New Observational Documentary

The Tower, a new, epic, observational documentary which has been filmed over three years, charts the urban regeneration of the notoriously troubled Pepys Estate in South London. A property developer is turning a dilapidated former council high-rise into luxury riverside apartments and another is being demolished and rebuilt for public sector workers. The changes are happening under the gaze of those still living in the original local authority houses next door.

The experiences and opinions of those still living on the estate, and those moving into the chic new homes, capture a key period of transition in contemporary London. The glittering tower of Canary Wharf looms large over the riverside location and the economic ripples it creates, along with a booming economy, have brought an affluent generation to the neighbourhood in search of views of the Thames and an easy commute to the office. Property prices are simply too high for those who are from the area to buy a house there.

The series features poignant portrayals of residents including Leol, a heroin addict, and his friend Nicky, an alcoholic, who met in a skip where they were collecting scrap metal to sell; Edith, mother of six children and heavily pregnant, who lives virtually alone in Dickensian conditions amongst rats and burst water pipes in the block to be demolished; young parents Kelly and Wayne, who are looking forward to their marriage; and Doug, who runs the local boozer, The John Evelyn. Doug hopes it will attract the fashionable new clientele, but the locals describe it as "God's waiting room".

Next episode Monday, July 2nd, 200710:45pm to 11:35pm

http://uk-tv-guide.com/programme-details/B...1:45/The+Tower/

Monday, July 2nd, 200710:45pm to 11:35pm

Image for The Tower

The last tenant has been removed from the ex-council tower block and the developers can now start the renovation. Their marketing department are keen to sell the virtues of riverside living, but on the estate there are some who are desperate to leave. Resident Edith Corlis is expecting her seventh baby, but squatters have are making her life a misery. Meanwhile, Lol Gilbert has failed to win his girlfriend back and has taken up again with the other love of his life, heroin.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Seems to be a new phenomena - a suicidal reverse version of white flight, but I guess the idiots who move there deserve everything they get

[Justice]

I think an in depth investigation of Lewisham Council would have been a more interesting programme.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/02/305021.html

they only ever go under cover to investigate groups like the BNP and guess who the pay masters are that give them police protection and then get the BBC to run the twisted propaganda during prime time viewing

you think Lewisham is bad you have seen nothing untill you have seen the LEicester City Council at work with it's money for votes scam targeted towards immigrants that in return all vote labour

Edited June 26, 2007 by Justice

[Tucksy]

Seems to be a new phenomena - a suicidal reverse version of white flight, but I guess the idiots who move there deserve everything they get

Not being from London, I watched (and will continue to watch) with fascination and slightly dumbfounded.

How stupid & desperate for a view of where you work must you be to live in a building where you will live in virtual isolation from the rest of the local community. Because, I suspect, these 'new' residents will NOT be welcomed into the local community and would they want to be anyway? Watching this programme, I couldn't believe how socially ignorant some of these marketing people clearly are. Yes I can just see Leol collecting scrap metal for drug money popping into 'Costa Coffee' for a double choc latte and a biscotti after work, chatting with currency trading whore Alexis, resident of Aragon Tower.

I thought (possible rather naively) that urban regeneration was supposed to revitalise areas blighted by poor housing, unemployment and other factors, whilst enhancing the economic and social prospects for the area's existing residents. Selling council housing such as this to developers and driving out local residents for the benefit of those at the other end of the social and economic scale is irresponsible and potentially very dangerous. Such extremes of deprivation and wealth in such close proximity can lead to resentment, social unrest and worse. After all, the only reason buildings such as these are selected is for their views and geographical proximity to the river and business districts.

The gap between rich and poor grows ever wider and councils acting in this way just add fuel to the fire that is social division.

Maybe I'm wrong and everyone will get along swimmingly?

[@contradevian]

they only ever go under cover to investigate groups like the BNP and guess who the pay masters are that give them police protection and then get the BBC to run the twisted propaganda during prime time viewing

you think Lewisham is bad you have seen nothing untill you have seen the LEicester City Council at work with it's money for votes scam targeted towards immigrants that in return all vote labour

I do know Leicester having lived there before moving to London, the shameless activities of a certain MP and his family and the "ethnic cleansing" policies practiced by Labour to hang onto power in the City.

[MRMX9]

Not being from London, I watched (and will continue to watch) with fascination and slightly dumbfounded.

How stupid & desperate for a view of where you work must you be to live in a building where you will live in virtual isolation from the rest of the local community. Because, I suspect, these 'new' residents will NOT be welcomed into the local community and would they want to be anyway? Watching this programme, I couldn't believe how socially ignorant some of these marketing people clearly are. Yes I can just see Leol collecting scrap metal for drug money popping into 'Costa Coffee' for a double choc latte and a biscotti after work, chatting with currency trading whore Alexis, resident of Aragon Tower.

The gap between rich and poor grows ever wider and councils acting in this way just add fuel to the fire that is social division.

Maybe I'm wrong and everyone will get along swimmingly?

The crazy thing about this development at Aragon Tower is that while it is of course adjacent to the Thames it is in a really isolated location. You have to walk through the neighbouring council estate to get to the nearest tube at Surrey Quays. Unfortunately because the east London line is being extended the whole line is being shut down from December so Surrey Quays station will actually be closed for two years making the commute to the City/Westend even worse.

There is the 199 bus - but you'd have to 'slum it' with the locals - or the riverboat service (but to get to the pier you again have to walk through the council estate).

2 bed flats are renting out there for £340pw (yes - in Deptford) - what's the point of having a nice view if you have to take you life in your hands everytime you go out??!!

[Yerman]

I do know Leicester having lived there before moving to London, the shameless activities of a certain MP and his family and the "ethnic cleansing" policies practiced by Labour to hang onto power in the City.

Who, what, where, why and when? Via PM if you don't want to add it here.

[laurejon]

The tower will be superb when it is finished, and will provide the catalyst for the community to prosper along with those that purchase flats in the tower. They are extremely reasonably priced starting at just over 385k for the 25sqm studio Bachelor executive suite.

I am sure once the locals see how its done, they will learn from these people and become traders, fund managers,Media Moguls, and Marketing Executives themselves.

In addition, it is well documented that the new proffessional classes like a bit of Charlie, and to have it on your doorstep rather than having to travel across London to get your deals is a far more attractive prospect. I suspect that there will be a good market for door to door delivery.

[Tucksy]

The tower will be superb when it is finished, and will provide the catalyst for the community to prosper along with those that purchase flats in the tower. They are extremely reasonably priced starting at just over 385k for the 25sqm studio Bachelor executive suite.

I am sure once the locals see how its done, they will learn from these people and become traders, fund managers,Media Moguls, and Marketing Executives themselves.

In addition, it is well documented that the new proffessional classes like a bit of Charlie, and to have it on your doorstep rather than having to travel across London to get your deals is a far more attractive prospect. I suspect that there will be a good market for door to door delivery.

Brilliant.

Could have come straight out of the marketing brochure.

Well except for the last paragraph perhaps?

Charlie? Oh mummy would never approve [sniff]...

[MRMX9]

Well Deptford is coming up in the world - the local Sainsbury's at Surrey Quays now has an instore Costa Coffee - just like the developers of Aragon Tower promised there would be in episode one!

[Tucksy]

Well Deptford is coming up in the world - the local Sainsbury's at Surrey Quays now has an instore Costa Coffee - just like the developers of Aragon Tower promised there would be in episode one!

Not being from the area myself, is there anywhere else for the Aragon residents or will they have to 'shop & socialise' in Sainsbury's?

[Benedict]

Well Deptford is coming up in the world - the local Sainsbury's at Surrey Quays now has an instore Costa Coffee - just like the developers of Aragon Tower promised there would be in episode one!

There's no sainsbury's at surrey quays . . . there's a tesco's. No in store coffee. There's a tchibo in the shopping centre if you're really desperate for a coffee.

Anyway, I'm at the moment in Rotherhithe, which is on the other side of the tracks, and the development has always utterly baffled me. I know the estate, I know the area, and I wouldn't go anywhere near it if I could avoid it. Panoramic views? It's a council tower block FFS, I've got a friend in one of those horrible high rises near the elephant and he's got panoramic views, but there's no way anyone would want to live there.

I can't see the block being anything other than a failure. As people have said, it's utterly isolated in the middle of the estate. No going anywhere at any time except by walking through a rough estate.

I'd say the absolute key to buying in London is to avoid local estates. You can hope that rising prices will drive out locals (arguably that's morally wrong, but still realistic) but rising prices don't drive people out of council estates because they don't have to afford it, they wouldn't be in a council estate if they could afford things. If you buy next to a rough estate you'll see everywhere around you become gentrified while the rough estate stays stubbornly the same. To buy right in the middle of an estate is insane!!!

Unless of course the developers have arranged to knock the whole ******ing lot down and ship all the locals out to the country to be shot. That could work.

[Tucksy]

Unless of course the developers have arranged to knock the whole ******ing lot down and ship all the locals out to the country to be shot. That could work.

Anything is possible in a socially divided police state...

[storm]

Snatching failure from the jaws of success

I live in Deptford, and was there when the BBC were filming it. Let me tell you few things about Deptford: It is a wonderful place, river, Georgian frontage, easy acess to over-priced studios in Canary Wharf, a catamaran to the City, views across to the ghost of the Cutty Sark at stifling Greenwich, and, people don't judge you. They're in no position to. Insanity is all about. So in this sense SE8 is an urban free for all. Creativity abounds, but there's the rub. Another thing about Deptford - they do ISSUES on a grand scale. They oft back losers, not winners. And there is, up til now, a lot of money to be made in povery, social issues, illiteracy (better be careful here) innumeracy and the general lack of alignment with the world and its demands. So, what did the BBC focus on? The junkies, the crack heads and the wide boys. Deptford is picked clean of any of the grace and dignity it has mustered over the last decade. I recall the refurbishing of that tower block. But more particulary I recall dodging the falling fridges, black bags, nappies, and so on when traversing its piss drenched windy quarters on my way to the 18th century local resource centre. (Another complete and utter waste of an opportunity) No one wanted to live in Arragon Tower with its mice and cockroaches. The council tenants wanted out. If the flats were going cheap a few years earlier, then so be it. Grab it Thatcher style. But the truth is, they hated the place. It was Pepys, and a sink in the great grimy kitchen of South London. Barclay Homes arrives, wadded up and wants to buy. Overnight, residents are at one, the fridges, like reason, defy gravity and cease mid fall. Now, we all LOVE Arragon Tower. We want to protec the right for people to lo live there. So you get the picture. Deptford will elevate and prosper into self respect when it allows itself to be part of a good thing and outlive its hard and often scurrulous history. Programmes like these are looking for fisures, to create divisions. No need, division is what Deptford thrives on and wallows in - that's how we get the funding.

House price crash? Values will change. My belief is that we will become less peripatetic - we will have to choose a place and stick to it - that transport links will crumble due to excessive cost and breakdown in infrastructure. We will reform into small connurbations and be locally run.

I think there will be a significant change in 2010, for some reason, and I don't why. But I think we are heading for a re-evaluation of how we view our homes and our local environment. Civic pride revival, and the great urban regeneration funding scam will be a thing of an feckless and expensive past.

here's a bit of creativity from Deptford's blujah

Red jacket on.

To the river, the cranes of Aragon Tower on the left

Past the new builds: Deptford's Neo Glasgow school.

On the second floor of post-tenement irony, soft grey bulk in a window

pressed against the glass, a woman holds her baby.

Pale dough cheek and winter glass.

A kiss in the frame of new builds,

Hope, and brushing her baby against her skin. Back wide and happy.

Red jacket on.

Black boys kiss their teeth and sing low.

Don't understand the architectural hymn and make up their own

Praising space and acoustics of breeze blocks.

Red jacket on.

I dream of bikes, of American beach bikes, of not being hungry.

By my side, wind dances on the curl of the river.

Water curls like 50s hair held neat by a grip. Moon high. Ripples combed.

Coiffure fetched up along with long stemmed pipes.

Narrative unfolds across on the opposite bank.

They should have left Canada Tower to its singular erection -

Now it's crammed uptight with short-arsed, square-shouldered bankers

And we have lost our vicarious view.

Red jacket on

On my way to the place I have lived longest since . . .

The hoarding of the old tower block are graffited

But Deptford's new penthouse will be accessed from another county.

Beached. Fetched up, bloated corpse of council wretch.

Or hanging, swaying in the ancient breeze on Peninsula Way SE - Chip &pin.

‘D'you know your number?’

Red Jacket on - plump with feathers, it keeps me warm while I dream of not being hungry.

White, middle-class woman in promising Deptford. Going home and dreaming of not being hungry.

Deptford’s a whore.

Her eyes are smeared with boot polish from Canary Wharf’s nouveau shoeshine

And she’s coloured her hair bright business.

She smiles a lot, but her teeth, though bleached, are rotten.

Staggering away, then towards, she proffers a can or syringe, and bows low as I pass.

I can feel her sneer, because she knew Grinling Gibbons when he made voodoo dolls for the sailors

And Kit Marlow before he got an agent. And whispers: ‘Nothing ever gets better than it was.’

So now has shares in Atavistic Gilt.

Red Jacket on.

Smoothing nearer home. In Deptford Wharf, some

neighbours have turned their car on and are dancing to it. Stop. Noise off, sudden as lights.

Distant lullaby of sirens. Poverty, prospect, quick enterprise,

the washed-up rumours of European funding, all twist silently in the latch.

Final trickle of commuters from the ferry at S.E.16’s Greenland Pier,

spill like mercury from a broken barometer.

But they go the other way.

Storm

[Saving For a Space Ship]

bump - on now

[MRMX9]

This programme is great and a real insight into the socially divided London we have today.

A great parallel storyline on now - the landlord of the local pub which is going out of business due to lack of custom (I expect it will be bought out and turned into a trendy wine bar by the end of the series) arrives to distribute some advertising leaflets at Aragon tower. At the same time a Sloane is on her mobile to mummy and daddy asking for their help to buy a flat at £250k - but she must buy that day to get this price. Says all you need to know!

[MRMX9]

Now one of the tenants on the council estate who has just given birth to a baby which is still in intensive care has just arrived home to find her flat (which she is about to move out of) has been taken over by squatters. The place has been trashed. Pity they don't have a concierge like the Aragon tower residents!

Back now to a Champagne reception for another of the Aragon tower launches!

[Rave]

Shame I missed this, I live the other side of Lewisham (Catford). Might have to get the bus up there and have a shufty. Maybe I could combine a ride on the 199 with a trip to the Docklands 2000 car auction, which was fun last time I went:).

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

Storm

This guy's brilliant. Let's hear more from you, storm!

[misfit]

Very interesting programme on BBC1 about the construction of a new block of luxury riverside apartments in Deptford and the impact it has on the surrounding council estate which is full of interesting characters and unsurprisingly many drug addicts. Its an 8 part series looking at the story over the last 3 years - should be interesting.

Already had the Sloaney marketing department on from the developers discussing how they can make Deptford seem more upmarket i.e. Costa Coffees and Italian restaurants seem to be the key essential!

Yes I have been watching this too. I really like the clown who held out for this 190K living in the block on his own for a year especially after the dirty tricks campaign by the local council.

I saw the estate agents discussing how nice Greenwich is but is the development not in Deptford. They appear to have forgotten this.

Also I can't believe the buyers who go to the area and say oh yes this looks like a nice place for my children. Do they not like their children or are they looking with rose tinted spectacles.

I think the buyers need to take a good walk around the area before parting with their cash. Have a walk behind the block and have a sit down with the alcoholic and heroin addict to get the alternative view from the locals.

Let's hope they do not end up 'up the junction' to quote Deptford's famous sons and keep the 'argybargy' to a minimum.

I feel sorry for the original tenants thrown out on their ****, seems a little sad to me.

[b0rk]

I'm more surprised that of all the buyers profiled so far not one is an investment buyer. They appear to plan on living inside the block post completion. Then again I suppose investors don't make good social regeneration tv.

Yes I have been watching this too. I really like the clown who held out for this 190K living in the block on his own for a year especially after the dirty tricks campaign by the local council.

It does make me wonder what pittance the council paid other right to buy owners to go away, more seriously what is the guy supposed to buy in/around deptford as two bed for 190k.

[PunK BeaR]

I thought (possible rather naively) that urban regeneration was supposed to revitalise areas blighted by poor housing, unemployment and other factors, whilst enhancing the economic and social prospects for the area's existing residents.

Thats what the government would have us believe with their huggy feely BS. Social mixes dont work well in this country because of the underlying mentality of the people. Us against them! Social mixes seem to work better in other European countries but they have far different cultures and mindsets. Unfortunately mixed areas tend to homogenate through time so whats the point in trying in the first place. This country needs a cultural overhaul that cant be forced upon us by mixing house types.

Edited July 10, 2007 by PunK BeaR