Time to raise the rents. Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...oneypro?source= Singles 'storing up money problems' 8 January 2005 Single Britons aged under 30 are "sleepwalking" into a financial crisis - owing four times as much as they save each month. Research from the Birmingham Midshires' Saving Britain campaign revealed that commitment-free under-30s had average savings of £522 and debts of £2,010 on cards, loans and store cards. In contrast, married homeowners were just about keeping their finances on an even keel - owing an average of £1,132 and being able to draw on a nest egg of £1,867. Married couples with children saved significantly more - having an average of £9,174 put away. People over 50 had a good level of financial health, more due to the fact that they seemed to have a strong intolerance towards debt on cards and loans - an average of just £460, working at around a fifth the amount of debt amassed by the under-30s. Tim Hague, head of savings and investments marketing at Birmingham Midshires, said: "The time has come to stop talking of a generic savings gap. "With more than 60% of the population regularly saving, the industry needs to focus its attention on young people. "Many young Britons have had exposure to debt from a young age, perhaps through university fees, and it seems the impact is that they subsequently become tolerant to living with too much debt. "This does, however, store up problems for the future as many find they can't afford to save and many put back plans to get on to the property ladder." The research was undertaken by Taylor Nelson on a sample of 1,000 people nationwide.
200p Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 TRUE,,Are'nt we an angry nation! Working in retail - people get hep up so quickly over little things! Man - look at the tsunami - get a grip you!
200p Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 TT. Who are you addressing this to?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I assume hes become a bear!
paranoidmick Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 "This does, however, store up problems for the future as many find they can't afford to save and many put back plans to get on to the property ladder." It is not making me angry. It emphasises one of the obvious reasons why this crash will be dramatic and sustained. There is a whole generation out there who live for today, spend like there is no tommorow and are a timebomb on the OO's who were reliant on the ridiculous inflation of HP's they bragged about yesterday (but not anymore). The crash is on us, just a few in denial for another six months and then watch the fireworks, repossions , bankruptcies, and economic chaos. Its not going to be a pretty sight and the greed of vested interest will be the cause.
TellinStories Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 What's the point of this? Is the search for bullish articles so futile you now have to post anything, however irrelevant?
RRP Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 TT. Who are you addressing this to?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Anger, mmm ! We have all been carping on about the debt bubble for months. MEW and credit card debt, and white vans full of cheap Chinese imports and so it went on to Keynes et al. Anger at the silly buggers who held the belief that the good times never stopped. Must have the Boxster and the 4WD brigade. There will be many a broken home due to debt. Why the change in the UK culture I wonder. My grandmother hated debt and all those around likewise. I think we are following the American example of running on debt.
Giraffe Cat Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Come on guys, if anyone else had posted this, you would have just debated the content of the article. Not the reason why the article had been posted. Anyway, Being in this range (under 30 and single) I buck the trend by having savings and no debt. However, my friends are quite different. Aged between 21 and 28, the majority of them still live with their parents as it is too expencive to leave home. The one who is now 28, and still lives with his parents, ran up huge credit card debts about 5 years ago. He has only just finished paying off his dad, who bailed him out. Now he is in a position to buy, he can't afford to due to the over inflated prices. Myself, even with savings, could only just afford to jump on the housing ladder, but I choose not to, as what I could afford doesnt warrent blowing all my savings. The relevance of the posted article on house prices? Singles who are under 30 are no longer entering the market.
Time to raise the rents. Posted January 8, 2005 Author Posted January 8, 2005 I remember when I was 18-28. Struggling to make ends meet & sometimes tempted to satisfy an urge today by taking a high interest loan. I even once had a 29% loan on a motorcycle. It's a tough lesson to realise just how much that bike cost. I learned the hard way that there is only two ways to get ahead financially: 1. Earn more money. 2. Spend less money. Combine them and you'll get ahead faster than you might think possible. When I started out as a landlord, number 1. was my goal through rent receipts. Number 2 was necessary because of the huge commitment when buying property for renting out. You may not get your chance this year or next, but if you start positioning yourself from now onwards, when the opportunities present themselves, you'll be ready for them.
SHERWICK Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 In contrast, married homeowners were just about keeping their finances on an even keel - owing an average of £1,132 and being able to draw on a nest egg of £1,867.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> So they call £1,867 a 'nest egg'? I would have thought a 'nest egg' would be an amount closer to £1,868...!
m00seb0y2 Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 I learned the hard way that there is only two ways to get ahead financially:1. Earn more money. 2. Spend less money. Combine them and you'll get ahead faster than you might think possible. You may not get your chance this year or next, but if you start positioning yourself from now onwards, when the opportunities present themselves, you'll be ready for them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's sound advice whether bull or bear, TT. Don't understand why some folks round here feel the need to jump down your throat everytime you post. 'praps all this trolling other forums is making people a little paranoid.
CrashedOutAndBurned Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 The meejduh like to present all problems as individual, but I'd like to defend many under 30s who are not spending freely on designer clothes and toys and are in debt due to poverty. With crippling college debts and a job market where any fool can get a job, but it can be incredibly hard to get a meaningful income, savings are often put onto the back burner however inclined one is to save. I remember a few years back buying stupid things like groceries with a credit card to eat just hoping it would all come out in the wash, so it's a bit galling to be depicted as a free-spending hedonist in the meejduh. In the end I had to consolodate some debts with a personal loan. That's probably the best advice, but you should only do this once and put any spare cash into overpayments. As I'm married, we're looking to buy together. It's made saving a lot faster as you can pool resources (of course, don't get married just to live cheaper!). If I was still single and anti-marriage I'd only be able to afford 1999 prices, so I'd need to be praying for a crash of Bruno-like proportions. As an alternative, I'd be looking towards co-housing projects and co-ops as a more positive alternative to living forever in flatshare land.
Warwickshire Lad Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Being in this range (under 30 and single) I buck the trend by having savings and no debt. However, my friends are quite different. The original poster cannot possibly be addressing me. I too have savings and no debt at all - and yes I have a credit card but only use it moderately and pay it off every month. And in the all the years I've been away from home - never have I run to my parents for money. Never. I am proud of this and my parents are proud of me for that. Yet it does seem that other people in the country are running up huge mortgages and credit card bills with impunity. Why have they been allowed to do so ? In today's market there is no way I am going to blow the savings I so diligently worked for over 7 years in order to buy a shit hole.
CrashedOutAndBurned Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Well said, Warks-lad. Why should the money you've made with real work go to realise the paper profit of some smug homeowner or BTL freeloader? The market is going nowhere, flat to falling. Saving for a house now means something again, as your hard-won savings aren't wiped out in seconds. As the market falls you'll the same 'free money' feeling that the BTLers had previously - a kind of sweet revenge. Now, if I'm wrong and the marklet doesn't fall - or just stagnates a little - we leave the country, and the UK loses another two exerienced graduate workers and generally good citizens. Then it'll be a case of, in the words of Nelson from the Simpsons, 'Ha! Ha!'. Win-win, either way!
simon99 Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 I am under 30 and nothing like this. I've been a saver all my life, I don't even own a mobile phone. Saving hasn't done me any good. In fact reckless f*ckwit spenders , people not careful with money are exactly the sort who have been the winners in todays economic climate where if you're not mortgaged up to your neck your screwed. They're the people who took out 110% interest only mortgages and saw their houses rises 100% in value.
Bear Goggles Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 It's true most people on this forum are not steeped in debt. STRs obviously have no debt and large savings and potential FTBs are much the same (but usually with slightly less savings). The HPC earnings survey showed that the average HPC forum poster is an above average earner, a highly educated/ qualified professional with above average savings and no debt, and not much like the people mentioned in the article. So TTRTR, why are we so angry? Probably because we feel like we are living in a country where stupidity rules, a society that rewards greed and debt fuelled consumerism above hard work and dedication. A society where you are punished for actually trying to produce something rather than make money out of someone eles's misfortune, where you're are more valued and rewarded as a BTLer renting out houses to people on sickness benefit than you are studying to become a scientist or an engineer. A society whereby any opposition to its twisted values are met with spin and misinformation by the vested interests. I'm just guessing here, but I think some or all of those points are why intellegent people in this country are angry. TTRTR, I know you are not under 30. The under 30s in 2005 in this country have more cards (no pun intended) stacked against them than at any time in living memory, and they are greeted with nothing but gloating by the "I'm alright jack, you should have bought to let in 1995" brigade. Anyway, rant over. Back to work - some of us have to actually produce something don't you know!
dogbox Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Myself, even with savings, could only just afford to jump on the housing ladder, but I choose not to, as what I could afford doesnt warrent blowing all my savings.Singles who are under 30 are no longer entering the market. Market doesnt need so many of you FTBs now, as investors & parents & pension victims are willing to take up the slack. I think its a good thing you FTBs are more likely to rent as this shores - up B2L.
Bear Goggles Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 I think its a good thing you FTBs are more likely to rent as this shores - up B2L. See what I mean about the "I'm alright Jack" society. Where did this cancer come from?
Sledgehead Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 TTRTR, What makes me angry is your poor memory. You have forgotten the endless debt averse threads spawned by the almost exclusively frugal membership of HPC. Indeed it is the ridiculous levels of leverage taken on by OOs and BTLs such as yourself that most people here cite as the cause of the housing bubble. You also seem to have forgetten the HPC site surveys that showed a large net cash position for members of HPC. Net cash positions for HPC members well into 6 figures were not uncommon. What else would you expect from STRs? Yet you, who feel we must be angry about our own supposed indebtedness ( ), have a huge debt yourself. You justify this because, like that other man of dubious credibility, Gordon Brown, you make a distinction between debt for "investment" and other debt. However, just like Gordy you are learning that investment is only investment if it makes returns. Gordy talks about investment in hospitals. Hospitals don't howver make profits. Is that the sort of "investment" you are talking about? I suppose you are hoping that the new posters (welcome!) won't have seen such surveys and threads. However, they are not so stupid as to be unable to see that this is a debt cautious site. But enoigh of anger. Here's something about you that really makes me laugh. Your unnecessarily long moniker. For somebody who is supposedly a fan of frugality, why be so profligate with your words? What is wrong with TimeToRaiseRents? Why do we need the "The". Then you'd be TTRR. Just think, I could save a whole keystroke everytime I reply to your ridiculous straw-clutching.
dogbox Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 just like Gordy you are learning that investment is only investment if it makes returns. Is that the sort of "investment" you are talking about? Ones that don't make profits! Sledge, by the looks of these statments, I can conclude you never will understand property investment. Go back to your high interest ladybird muppet Bank accounts and leave us investors to do the Mans work. BTW, investors in the main also have lots of cash in Bank, but to rely only upon muppet financial propducts will never make anyone financially virile.
Guest pioneer31 Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 So TTRTR, why are we so angry?Probably because we feel like we are living in a country where stupidity rules, a society that rewards greed and debt fuelled consumerism above hard work and dedication. A society where you are punished for actually trying to produce something rather than make money out of someone eles's misfortune, where you're are more valued and rewarded as a BTLer renting out houses to people on sickness benefit than you are studying to become a scientist or an engineer. A society whereby any opposition to its twisted values are met with spin and misinformation by the vested interests. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> absolutely spot on ! of course the country will suffer inevitably because BTL doesn't create any real wealth. The real wealth creators and innovators will offer their talents to a more deserving society.
TellinStories Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 I learned the hard way that there is only two ways to get ahead financially:You may not get your chance this year or next, but if you start positioning yourself from now onwards, when the opportunities present themselves, you'll be ready for them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello TTRTR, Apologies if I mistook the purpose of your initial post. Your advice is, of course, spot on. I was like those in the article, and in some ways I still am as I still have some debt to pay off. But I learned my lesson, and now my debts shrink monthly, while my savings increase. I am certainly positioning myself for the opportnities ahead. Cheers
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 I am under 30 and nothing like this. I've been a saver all my life, I don't even own a mobile phone. Saving hasn't done me any good.In fact reckless f*ckwit spenders , people not careful with money are exactly the sort who have been the winners in todays economic climate where if you're not mortgaged up to your neck your screwed. They're the people who took out 110% interest only mortgages and saw their houses rises 100% in value. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When IRs go up and house prices come down, would you want to be in their position. People who stretch themselves to the limit with no spare capacity face financial ruin when things go a**e up, as many found out in the last crash. In 1970 I borrowed at 8% and was warned IRs look like they are on the way up. My capacity was increased by budgeting to take a 15% hit, and yes rates hit 15%. The savers and prudent always win in the end, take my word for it, seen it all before.
Sledgehead Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 However, just like Gordy you are learning that investment is only investment if it makes returns. Is that the sort of "investment" you are talking about? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sledge, by the looks of these statments, I can conclude you never will understand property investment. Go back to your high interest ladybird muppet Bank accounts and leave us investors to do the Mans work.BTW, investors in the main also have lots of cash in Bank, but to rely only upon muppet financial propducts will never make anyone financially virile. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please do explain. I'd love to hear more from such a well informed mind who believes investments that offer negative returns are valuable. I'll try and reply in between constructing strangles, butterfly spreads and other such muppet financial strategies.
oracle Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 let's face facts dogbox, we're right,you're wrong...what goes up must come down....period! doesn't matter what market you "invest" in,the secret is timing. buy low and sell high...and buying low means everyone else wants to sell/ vice versa for sell high. and at this present moment where do you think we are in the cycle???...had lots of herd buyers over the last 3 years(mostly down to a poor stock market to start with and then people got on the bandwagon of easy money as prices rose) no good bleating on about past performance because that's exactly what it is...in the past!!!. stock market trend of a few years back should tell you it can go very wrong,very quickly!
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