[AustralianInvestor]

Hi All Spainish Investors,

I wanted to get some opinions on the Jardin De Los Reyes development in Spain. Can everyone comment please?

Here are the details:-

Website located under the parent website: http://www.propertyunder100k.com/ But you can go straight to the development website on http://www.jardin-de....com/unique.asp

Here a little bit of info:

The Resort

Jardin de los Reyes has been planned and designed to a meticulously high-quality standard; unlike anything else seen before in Spain.

In this naturally beautiful historic area they aim to limit any effects on the environment and use the latest techniques and technology to minimise the environmental footprint of the development.

The resort will set a new standard for leisure and lifestyle resorts in Spain. Environmentally aware, cultrally rewarding, respectful of its history and sculptured to blend seemlessly with its natural surroundings; it is a new alternative for the discerning overseas buyer.

Jardin de los Reyes will be an exclusive, low density, premium leisure development with a range of cultural and social assets unequalled in Europe, which will give the project a unique character and life. The 2,055 acres (8,312,470m2) site will be mainly given over to green and forest areas with very low density dwellings.

The extensive vineyards (over 180,000 vines) will be increased and research undertaken into additional varieties suitable for the soil and area. Summer schools in viniculture and a link to Alicante University will provide research and expertise.

The developers have strived to set itself apart from being just a summer resort, by offering an array of all year-round facilities; not just for its occupants, but aiming to attract outside visitors as well.


Facilities Offered

* Full sporting village including covered olympic stadium
* Three hotels including boutique and spa hotel
* Electric transport system within the development
* Tennis Academy
* Golf Academy with 18 and 9 hole courses
* Museum with town square and commercial centre
* 200,000m2 of specialized botanical gardens
* Restored historic cortijo and museum
* Working Bedega (Vinyard) with over 260 acres under cultivation
* Large green and forest areas within the development
* Commercial area with retail outlets, bars and restaurants
* Sporting village
* Thermal Spa
* Open air amphitheatre
* Conference and exhibition facilities
* Health facilities
* Security services
* Helipad
* Petrol Station

Location Details
The Jardin de los Reyes plot is located 50 minutes from Alicante airport on the main Madrid motorway between Almansa and Enguera. The plot location itself is around 90km from the Coast.

It is possible to reach the plot directly via motorway from Valencia, Alicante and Madrid. High speed train between Madrid-Alicante and Valencia with a station just 2.5 miles from the plot. Valencia, Alicante and Murcia airports are all within 1 hours drive.

Price $70,000 Euro for a 900m2 plot

This post has been edited by AustralianInvestor: 25 February 2007 - 01:31 AM

[spanman]

I could be wrong but is he trying to sell something?

[rondy]

AustralianInvestor, on Feb 25 2007, 01:30 AM, said:

Price $70,000 Euro for a 900m2 plot

Do you know that you can get 2-nd line from the Ocean in Brazil for 9000 Euros? Or 3-rd line from the beach in Turks and Caicos or Bahamas for 20000 Euros. Or beautiful land in Panama?

Why would anyone pay 70000 Euro for countryside plot in Spain?

[AustralianInvestor]

No I am not an agent, just wanting investor opinions, as I am contemplating on purchasing.

Thank You

[TeddyBear]

I read this thread title as -207%roi, which is probably about right for the thousands who have lost their land and/or properties due to all the nightmares that have gone on in Spain.

[AteMoose]

never buy a large plot in spain.... I would be worried about another developer coming in and grabbing more land, this land grabbing is going to put people off buying in spain...

[adibrown]

rondy, on Feb 25 2007, 10:01 AM, said:

Do you know that you can get 2-nd line from the Ocean in Brazil for 9000 Euros? Or 3-rd line from the beach in Turks and Caicos or Bahamas for 20000 Euros. Or beautiful land in Panama?

Why would anyone pay 70000 Euro for countryside plot in Spain?

You are spot on. DO NOT BUY INLAND IN SPAIN.

It is made to look cheap (and therefore a bargain) but do you know where this actually is?

Anything more than a mile from the coast (other than Cities) in Spain will drop by at least 50% when the crash properly kicks in. It doesn't matter how its dressed up - Country Club, Luxury Housing, Mountain Properties etc. This area specifically is a desert. They have literally picked the cheapest bit of land they can find to build this on. In the Winter the temprature will drop below -5 and in the Summer there will be no wind and temps will touch 45degrees.

Please don't invest in this. If you don't have much money and cant afford the coastal areas of Spain but want to invest abroad then aim for inland France, a farm/barn in Brittany etc or even Florida in 6 months you may find something for £40k.

In my opinion this project is about as clever an investment as investing in Turkey or Morroco and probably as risky. Although not as politically or socially volatile as those places it certainly is a different world in Spain once you venture off the beaten path.

My advice - AVOID AT ALL COST

[spanman]

AustralianInvestor, on Feb 25 2007, 11:39 AM, said:

No I am not an agent, just wanting investor opinions, as I am contemplating on purchasing.

Thank You

My opinion then; Don`t do it. Spain`s oversupply is already stalling the market, won`t be long before a lot of people lose a lot of money.

[adibrown]

spanman, on Feb 25 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

My opinion then; Don`t do it. Spain`s oversupply is already stalling the market, won`t be long before a lot of people lose a lot of money.

I fully agree. I think the old rule applies in Spain as it does in the UK and any property market. When you start paying top prices for houses in areas were prices have been historically low then you are making a mistake.

In the UK we are going to see it unravel in places up north were you used to pay £35k for a 2 up 2 down only five years ago (I am thinking Hull, Derby, Stoke, Burnley, Bradford, Preston, Newcastle). In the same way those people paying £100k for houses or flats miles inland in Spain will see their value go back down to £30k in 3 years time IMO. Coastal Properties will see a decline but not half as dramatic as in those areas which are usually unpopular.

Spanman is right about supply, an oversupply has been happening now for the past 2 years. Unless it is first or second line I wouldnt bother looking at Spanish Property.

[catara]

adibrown, on Feb 25 2007, 05:48 PM, said:

In the same way those people paying £100k for houses or flats miles inland in Spain will see their value go back down to £30k in 3 years time IMO.

Which areas do you think will have such decrease?

Do you think the same is bound to happen for non beach properties in Canary Islands?

[adibrown]

catara, on Feb 25 2007, 08:52 PM, said:

Which areas do you think will have such decrease?

Do you think the same is bound to happen for non beach properties in Canary Islands?

Im not sure about the Canary Islands. I would have thought prices would have stayed pretty stable there although inland areas are the first to drop in the crash because it works like this:


1991

Coastal Property - 80k
Inland Property - 20k

1994

Coastal Property- 100k
Inland Property - 23k

2001

Coastal Property - 140k
Inland Property - 28k

2003

Coastal Property - 180k
Inland Property - 50k

2006

Coastal Property - 190k
Inland Property - 90k


You see the majority of people looking to buy in Spain are looking to buy by MEWing or if retired they dont want a mortgage. This means your average Joe is looking to spend no more than £150,000. This used to get them a place on the coast but in 2001 the prices rose outside of their affordability range. Developers and EA's saw an opportunity to sell inland areas to Brits for a price they wanted to pay. As Brits neglected coastal areas because they were out of their budget they flooded a previously unpopular market and all of a sudden the demand sparked spectacular price rises. Developers couldnt believe their luck because you go only a mile inland and land is quite literally 1/10th of the price but they are now able to charge quite high prices.

IMO as soon as coastal property drops slightly in price or price expectations increase then the inland areas become barren and unpopular once more. There will be nobody looking to buy your Finca because they can buy somewhere nearer the coast for the same price, The same I am sure has happened in the Canaries although I am no expert on the Canaries.

[catara]

adibrown, on Feb 26 2007, 12:04 AM, said:

You see the majority of people looking to buy in Spain are looking to buy by MEWing or if retired they dont want a mortgage. This means your average Joe is looking to spend no more than £150,000. This used to get them a place on the coast but in 2001 the prices rose outside of their affordability range. Developers and EA's saw an opportunity to sell inland areas to Brits for a price they wanted to pay. As Brits neglected coastal areas because they were out of their budget they flooded a previously unpopular market and all of a sudden the demand sparked spectacular price rises. Developers couldnt believe their luck because you go only a mile inland and land is quite literally 1/10th of the price but they are now able to charge quite high prices.

IMO as soon as coastal property drops slightly in price or price expectations increase then the inland areas become barren and unpopular once more. There will be nobody looking to buy your Finca because they can buy somewhere nearer the coast for the same price, The same I am sure has happened in the Canaries although I am no expert on the Canaries.

I now understand, I was not aware that the inland prices grew that much.

In Tenerife and FUerteventura it is just the same, places far away from the Ocean are now sold at a premium.

[AndyK2]

Hi chaps. Appreciate all your comments on these project. Our company spent two months doing independent due diligence on this and reckon it was an opportunity worth pursuing. Sure, you can buy a plot of land in Brazil, 10 plots of land in Bulgaria or a holiday home in Morocco for much the same money, but the potential of this project is actually much higher than 207% and is it wrong to alert investors to it?

[Radio]

So, according to the web site they don't actually have planning permission.........

[AndyK2]

Radio, on Feb 27 2007, 04:14 PM, said:

So, according to the web site they don't actually have planning permission.........

Absolutely correct - it´s not even been applied for and won´t be until June. 18 - 24 months until outline planning permission approved and then two years later until definitive planning approval - that´s 4 years capital growth, uplift in land status from agricultural to urbanised and development gain. All monies guaranteed and a refund on offer if the planning is not approved by a certain date. If you are looking for a holiday home in the sun, look in Murcia. If you are looking for an investment .................................