[NumberTen]

Have you bought a Tierra Del Sol unit in the last 2 years? Does anyone know what's really going on and can anyone shed any light on current developments. We're being put under pressure to re-negotiate a new contract which increases the price $190k for so called enhancements. I'd be interested to hear any views on this subject especially from buyers facing the same dilemma.

[rohan]

NumberTen, on Oct 16 2006, 12:20 PM, said:

Have you bought a Tierra Del Sol unit in the last 2 years? Does anyone know what's really going on and can anyone shed any light on current developments. We're being put under pressure to re-negotiate a new contract which increases the price $190k for so called enhancements. I'd be interested to hear any views on this subject especially from buyers facing the same dilemma.

Hi, yes I have bought 2 town houses at TDS in June 2004. Here I was thinking that I had been a clever investor by getting in early but only to find thet after 2 years of having my money, they want an extra 170k($) per house if I want to stay in the development.
I can't believe they can do this, surely it's their fault if the development has had hold ups, but we have to pay for it!? It looks as if the contract I have is not worth the paper it's written on so I have more or less decided to ask for my deposit back, it just upsets me to think they have had £80,000 of my money for well over 2 years for no reason other than earn them interest.

The 3 choices I have been given are: 1. A return of my deposit (hopefully). 2. To continue with the purchase at the original price but be totally excluded from the Sonesta brand, no marketing, no high spec finish, nothing! 3. To purchase the unit at the new extortionate price and remain under the Sonesta banner.

I wonder if this is a bullying ploy to see if people will pay more for the same house but in fact if we said no and stood our ground we would still be allowed under the Sonesta banner. I can't see them being keen on having properties in their development being run by individuals rather than a professional management company. In that case you could rent it to problem families and very quickly give the resort a bad name. What are your thoughts?

Rohan

[The Soup Dragon]

I'm sorry to hear what is happening here, it sounds crazy. Is there anything in the contract to say that you have to cover cost should development run over budget? I can only assume not. What do your solicitors say about this?

[Pablo-silver or lead?]

Sorry to say but you guys have just entered the steepest learning curve of your lives.

I sold up (property management business) and returned from Florida in Mid 2005. The peak of the market price wise was aug/sept 2005.
Since then property prices have fallen by 20% and have a lot further to go. Just up from TDS on Solana there are 64 (3 to 5 bed) stunning detached pool villas for sale priced between $345k to $500k nothing sold for 6 months. You can buy a 3 year old 3 /4 bed detached pool villa on a good development much closer to Disney than TDS in great order fully furnished for for $265k. I drove past TDS twice a day for 2 years The only activity was one Mexican guy with a strimmer. Along with a couple of other heavily marketed developments that have yet to be built TDS is a bit of a laughing stock. The town homes on TDS were always over priced when benchmarked against other property.

Rental income guaranteed or otherwise in Florida is always disappointing, and some of the well known guarantee schemes are scams that generate zero income for the owner and fat management fees for company.

Questions.

Did you use a property Lawyer?

Why are they asking you to pay more when all prices are falling?

What does the contract say?

Are your deposits held in escrow or have they been used by the company as working capital?

I know of 5 Brit buyers that have recently walked away from deposits (on various Central Florida developments not TDS) of between $40k and $100k, because when they did the due diligence and sums they now wished they'd done before they signed the contract, it was the cheapest way out.

If you are being offered your deposits back I would grab it with two hands.

If you have any specific questions about the ‘Absentee Florida Owner Experience’ fire away.


Pablo Silver or Lead?

[rohan]

rohan, on Nov 23 2006, 04:57 PM, said:

Hi, yes I have bought 2 town houses at TDS in June 2004. Here I was thinking that I had been a clever investor by getting in early but only to find thet after 2 years of having my money, they want an extra 170k($) per house if I want to stay in the development.
I can't believe they can do this, surely it's their fault if the development has had hold ups, but we have to pay for it!? It looks as if the contract I have is not worth the paper it's written on so I have more or less decided to ask for my deposit back, it just upsets me to think they have had £80,000 of my money for well over 2 years for no reason other than earn them interest.

The 3 choices I have been given are: 1. A return of my deposit (hopefully). 2. To continue with the purchase at the original price but be totally excluded from the Sonesta brand, no marketing, no high spec finish, nothing! 3. To purchase the unit at the new extortionate price and remain under the Sonesta banner.

I wonder if this is a bullying ploy to see if people will pay more for the same house but in fact if we said no and stood our ground we would still be allowed under the Sonesta banner. I can't see them being keen on having properties in their development being run by individuals rather than a professional management company. In that case you could rent it to problem families and very quickly give the resort a bad name. What are your thoughts?

Rohan

[rohan]

Pablo-silver or lead?, on Nov 23 2006, 06:17 PM, said:

Sorry to say but you guys have just entered the steepest learning curve of your lives.

I sold up (property management business) and returned from Florida in Mid 2005. The peak of the market price wise was aug/sept 2005.
Since then property prices have fallen by 20% and have a lot further to go. Just up from TDS on Solana there are 64 (3 to 5 bed) stunning detached pool villas for sale priced between $345k to $500k nothing sold for 6 months. You can buy a 3 year old 3 /4 bed detached pool villa on a good development much closer to Disney than TDS in great order fully furnished for for $265k. I drove past TDS twice a day for 2 years The only activity was one Mexican guy with a strimmer. Along with a couple of other heavily marketed developments that have yet to be built TDS is a bit of a laughing stock. The town homes on TDS were always over priced when benchmarked against other property.

Rental income guaranteed or otherwise in Florida is always disappointing, and some of the well known guarantee schemes are scams that generate zero income for the owner and fat management fees for company.

Questions.

Did you use a property Lawyer?

Why are they asking you to pay more when all prices are falling?

What does the contract say?

Are your deposits held in escrow or have they been used by the company as working capital?

I know of 5 Brit buyers that have recently walked away from deposits (on various Central Florida developments not TDS) of between $40k and $100k, because when they did the due diligence and sums they now wished they'd done before they signed the contract, it was the cheapest way out.

If you are being offered your deposits back I would grab it with two hands.

If you have any specific questions about the ‘Absentee Florida Owner Experience’ fire away.
Pablo Silver or Lead?

Hi, thanks for your input. I feel like such a mug. They talked me out of holding my funds in an escrow account when I originally signed the contracts as they said it was just a formality and nobody did that anyway!! Getting my deposit back was breifly mentioned but when I indicated that I would probably do that the phone mysteriously went dead, and I have since had no reply to my messages. The agent told me that the new value of my town house was 600k (valued by GMAC?) so even paying the new reloaded price of 480k I was still getting a bargain. For the record I paid 309k in June 04, silly me for thinking any capital growth was mine!?!
How do I stand legally if they say I can't have my deposit back?

Rohan

[Pablo-silver or lead?]

Rohan

I would join The Forida Rental Home Owners Forum

http://www.top-forums.com/forum/

Post regarding this situation on their General Topics board only state the facts. You should get good advice.

If you have further questions I'll do what I can.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

[NumberTen]

rohan, on Nov 23 2006, 04:57 PM, said:

Hi, yes I have bought 2 town houses at TDS in June 2004. Here I was thinking that I had been a clever investor by getting in early but only to find thet after 2 years of having my money, they want an extra 170k($) per house if I want to stay in the development.
I can't believe they can do this, surely it's their fault if the development has had hold ups, but we have to pay for it!? It looks as if the contract I have is not worth the paper it's written on so I have more or less decided to ask for my deposit back, it just upsets me to think they have had £80,000 of my money for well over 2 years for no reason other than earn them interest.

The 3 choices I have been given are: 1. A return of my deposit (hopefully). 2. To continue with the purchase at the original price but be totally excluded from the Sonesta brand, no marketing, no high spec finish, nothing! 3. To purchase the unit at the new extortionate price and remain under the Sonesta banner.

I wonder if this is a bullying ploy to see if people will pay more for the same house but in fact if we said no and stood our ground we would still be allowed under the Sonesta banner. I can't see them being keen on having properties in their development being run by individuals rather than a professional management company. In that case you could rent it to problem families and very quickly give the resort a bad name. What are your thoughts?

Rohan

Hi Rohan,

I am sorry it has taken me until now to respond. I wasn't given this option at all, option 2 - To continue with the purchase at the original price but be totally excluded from the Sonesta brand, no marketing, no high spec finish, nothing! - Never at any time was I offered this, nor was my financial adviser who also bought a unit.

The developer couldn't even be bothered to send their own representatives, they sent three scruffy looking shady characters (personal friends of the boss) to do their dirty work. I can only assume they are on a commission for signing buyers up to the new extortionate rate. I told them that I doubted the houses were worth the current valuation of $459K let alone $600K and asked them to justify this increase, all they could do was hand me a so called appraisal (which they advised me I couldn't take a copy, then one of them sneakily suggested I go out for some air and copy it, as if he was hiding it from his colleagues, what was that all about!!) The appraisal isn't worth the paper it's written on.

When I asked them to personally justify the increase they told me the hurricanes have forced raw material prices up, from your meeting it sounds like it's using the Sonesta brand that is responsible, the whole thing is very dubious isn't it.

My financial adviser was sent the paperwork to claim his deposit back but it's a bit worrying that you haven't received the same, have you tried them again..?

I think Pablo-Silver is right, we should get our deposits back, but I was wondering if it might be worth trying to get a few buyers together and jointly employing a Florida State Lawyer for advice or get it back now, before something else goes wrong.

what do you think..?

[rohan]

NumberTen, on Dec 4 2006, 11:07 AM, said:

Hi Rohan,

I am sorry it has taken me until now to respond. I wasn't given this option at all, option 2 - To continue with the purchase at the original price but be totally excluded from the Sonesta brand, no marketing, no high spec finish, nothing! - Never at any time was I offered this, nor was my financial adviser who also bought a unit.

The developer couldn't even be bothered to send their own representatives, they sent three scruffy looking shady characters (personal friends of the boss) to do their dirty work. I can only assume they are on a commission for signing buyers up to the new extortionate rate. I told them that I doubted the houses were worth the current valuation of $459K let alone $600K and asked them to justify this increase, all they could do was hand me a so called appraisal (which they advised me I couldn't take a copy, then one of them sneakily suggested I go out for some air and copy it, as if he was hiding it from his colleagues, what was that all about!!) The appraisal isn't worth the paper it's written on.

When I asked them to personally justify the increase they told me the hurricanes have forced raw material prices up, from your meeting it sounds like it's using the Sonesta brand that is responsible, the whole thing is very dubious isn't it.

My financial adviser was sent the paperwork to claim his deposit back but it's a bit worrying that you haven't received the same, have you tried them again..?

I think Pablo-Silver is right, we should get our deposits back, but I was wondering if it might be worth trying to get a few buyers together and jointly employing a Florida State Lawyer for advice or get it back now, before something else goes wrong.

what do you think..?

Hi Number 10,

It was good to read your reply, like I have already said, bad news is better than no news! As it stands at present I'm STILL waiting for somebody to contact me from TDS with my options, so far I have had a call from the MRI rep who really just tried to resell the whole concept to me, but with a much higher price tag this time.

It was reassuring to hear that your FA has actually received paperwork to get the deposit back, it's probably in their own best interests to resell them to new investors ASAP to fund the build. In reference to a lawyer, I do think it's a good idea to have some legal backing but I would like to attempt to get my deposit back without anymore financial outlay, I have already lost enough in interest. Do you know of anybody who has actually phisically got their deposit back yet, that would instill a bit more confidence in me.

Those in the know seem to be saying take your money and run, I'm doing exactly that. I can't believe this has turned bad, I was so pleased with myself for being ahead of the game for once in my life, then overnight it has become a worry that I may not even get my money back! Who have you been contacting at TDS and on what number? Did you purchase through MRI or another agent? What time scale were you given for a return of your money? How did they react when you said you wanted your deposit back?

Sorry to hit you with these Q's but your probably the best person to ask, considering the lack of contact from everyone else.

[NumberTen]

rohan, on Dec 4 2006, 11:53 AM, said:

Those in the know seem to be saying take your money and run, I'm doing exactly that. I can't believe this has turned bad, I was so pleased with myself for being ahead of the game for once in my life, then overnight it has become a worry that I may not even get my money back! Who have you been contacting at TDS and on what number? Did you purchase through MRI or another agent? What time scale were you given for a return of your money? How did they react when you said you wanted your deposit back?

Sorry to hit you with these Q's but your probably the best person to ask, considering the lack of contact from everyone else.

Hi Rohan,

I haven't gone so far as requesting a refund yet, I wanted to see if I could contact a few buyers (as the agent told me 97% of them were British) and try and get some advice and feedback before making a decision. I'm reluctant to cave in straight away without as many facts as possible, and thanks to yourself and Pablo-Silver I'm getting a better picture.

The developer sent over three Reps to tell us the good news one of them introduced himself as a representative of TDS, and I was told to contact any one of the three and no-one else once I had made my decision, this is when I suspected them of being Agents on a commission as opposed to personal friends of the boss. They told me I would receive my deposit back within 90 days of requesting it.

They have since pestered me for a decision but I said 'what's the rush, if the houses aren't going to be built for another two years' I want some time to think about it, they haven't contacted me since.

The TDS rep was David Yarvi, his email is david@tierradelsolresort.com

I didn't purchase through MRI, My FA introduced me to an agent he had dealt with before, my FA has since contacted him again and he has given no indication to start pannicking just yet, although I am getting worried. I appreciate what Pablo-Silver has said but like you I purchased in 2004 and was expecting the unit to be built by the summer of 2005, generating a sizeable profit because we bought early, it seems the market has crashed since then and the developers are trying to scam the buyers (British buyers I might add, I'm sure as a collective we could get some answers but we'd need to find some other buyers).

It doesn't sound right when different buyers are being given different options, if we could contact a few more it might expose something, or should we just grab the money and run?

Sorry I can't be more helpful at the moment, but I'll be back with any more info once I have it to hand.

[rohan]

NumberTen, on Dec 4 2006, 02:31 PM, said:

Hi Rohan,

I haven't gone so far as requesting a refund yet, I wanted to see if I could contact a few buyers (as the agent told me 97% of them were British) and try and get some advice and feedback before making a decision. I'm reluctant to cave in straight away without as many facts as possible, and thanks to yourself and Pablo-Silver I'm getting a better picture.

The developer sent over three Reps to tell us the good news one of them introduced himself as a representative of TDS, and I was told to contact any one of the three and no-one else once I had made my decision, this is when I suspected them of being Agents on a commission as opposed to personal friends of the boss. They told me I would receive my deposit back within 90 days of requesting it.

They have since pestered me for a decision but I said 'what's the rush, if the houses aren't going to be built for another two years' I want some time to think about it, they haven't contacted me since.

The TDS rep was David Yarvi, his email is david@tierradelsolresort.com

I didn't purchase through MRI, My FA introduced me to an agent he had dealt with before, my FA has since contacted him again and he has given no indication to start pannicking just yet, although I am getting worried. I appreciate what Pablo-Silver has said but like you I purchased in 2004 and was expecting the unit to be built by the summer of 2005, generating a sizeable profit because we bought early, it seems the market has crashed since then and the developers are trying to scam the buyers (British buyers I might add, I'm sure as a collective we could get some answers but we'd need to find some other buyers).

It doesn't sound right when different buyers are being given different options, if we could contact a few more it might expose something, or should we just grab the money and run?

Sorry I can't be more helpful at the moment, but I'll be back with any more info once I have it to hand.

Hi Number 10,

Apart from posting information and questions on this and other forums, I really don't know how to reach the other TDS buyers. I think there are probably around 800 british buyers but I'm only having contact with 4 other investors, yourself included. It goes some way to explaining why they have not contacted me yet, they are no doubt working their way through a very long list and I'm inconveniently trying to jump the queue.

David Yarvi is a name I have dealt with in the past. It was this guy who informed me that my units could not be assigned pre build, even after they told me this was an option when I signed the contracts. When I told him I wanted to sell them he was very off hand, became borderline rude, but just polite enough to avoid any confrontation. He is also one of the names I have been emailing lately regarding this mess and, like all his colleauges, has completely ingnored me.

I'm using to other forums to try to obtain as much info as possible, likewise I will let you know as and when more facts become available.

[maltestrauss]

Has anything happened with Tierra del Sol in recent months? I am trying to get in contact with buyers who have signed up for a pre-construction purchase with Tierra del Sol and want to share their experience with me. I am a Real estate agent in the central Forida Region and would like to learn more about the status and the workings of this development. Please feel free to contact me. My website is www.luxuryhomesinorlando.com and my email is mstrauss@luxuryhomesinorlando.com. Thanks and best wishes, Malte Strauss

[viv]

maltestrauss, on Jan 5 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

Has anything happened with Tierra del Sol in recent months? I am trying to get in contact with buyers who have signed up for a pre-construction purchase with Tierra del Sol and want to share their experience with me. I am a Real estate agent in the central Forida Region and would like to learn more about the status and the workings of this development. Please feel free to contact me. My website is www.luxuryhomesinorlando.com and my email is mstrauss@luxuryhomesinorlando.com. Thanks and best wishes, Malte Strauss

Hi all,
I just found this website. I am in the same boat. I purchase 2 townhouses in year 2005. In Sep 2007 I want my deposit back. They sent me paper to sign and said will refund in 30 days. After I sign paper they all disappear, mystery, I left many messages to everyone of them. No answer. I hired a lawyer, cost some money. They said will have money next month, then said 45 days and now over a year I still could not get my money back. We are really in curve of life to lose that big money. Do you all get on the website tdso.pureforum.net to see how other buyers in the same crash . Everyone scream our head off but still cannot get our money back. If you all have any plan let me know what we should do.
Viv

This post has been edited by viv: 05 December 2008 - 02:17 AM

[LYNNE]

viv, on Dec 5 2008, 03:13 AM, said:

Hi all,
I just found this website. I am in the same boat. I purchase 2 townhouses in year 2005. In Sep 2007 I want my deposit back. They sent me paper to sign and said will refund in 30 days. After I sign paper they all disappear, mystery, I left many messages to everyone of them. No answer. I hired a lawyer, cost some money. They said will have money next month, then said 45 days and now over a year I still could not get my money back. We are really in curve of life to lose that big money. Do you all get on the website tdso.pureforum.net to see how other buyers in the same crash . Everyone scream our head off but still cannot get our money back. If you all have any plan let me know what we should do.
Viv

[LYNNE]

Hi my mother in law paid a deposit of £90k for a property here in 2005. She has had very little correspendance from them and the end date has been delayed and delayed. She has recently being diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer which has now spread to her brain. She is desperate to get her money back. Does anyone know what she can do or is there a group that is making a complaint together. Can anyone recommend a good solicitor to advise us on this please.