[red]

muttley, on Dec 11 2004, 11:39 AM, said:

LION. I do not know Southgate and have not seen your flat,which sounds lovely.Why,it's even got windows.However,I have to say that your timescale of 2 years seems a little ambitious.You say that you don't expect prices to fall significantly in your area,but they would have to rise in order for you to profit,unless you bought well BMV.
If you are so confidant that there will be no significant drop then what attracted you to this site?

Good luck with your plan.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know Southgate very well and prices are falling across the board. It has a tube and good schools which will stop prices falling drastically (as opposed to supposedly up-coming places like Hackney which have no such infrastructure and is my tip for 40% drops...)
I suspect that LION is just trying to make himself feel better about buying at the top of the market and certainly he'll have saved a few quid buying a place in need of work - but to expect to walk away with a profit in 2 years is very optimistic! We could be approaching the trough in the market by then - not the best time to sell.

[CBR600]

My parents bought their 3 bed semi in st.albans for £13k in 1969, now valued at £245K. They still regret not buying a 4 bedroom just round the corner instead, but the price was four thousand more (17K) and they didn't think they could stretch their budget that far (now valued at £375k !!!....

[Red Baron]

My first house, purchased at the age of 30, was a three bedroom detached house. I paid £13,000 for it in 1975.

This house was representative of what the average middle class FTB bought back then. I am appalled that these same people today cannot even afford a one bedroom flat. It just shows how absurdly inflated property prices have distorted the market.

It's wicked - what we are seeing is a wholesale re-distribution of wealth from the young in favour of those who were able to buy at favourble prices in the past.

[zzg113]

Quote

. The debt councelling lady made the most illuminating comment "people are using house value as a credit limit." Now that could be OK while value rises but how many people have now got debt mountains higher than asset value?

Atually it's not OK in any circumstance. A lot of people do this with credit cards as well, they treat the limits on their credit cards as TARGETS which they MUST SPEND. The rational response is actually to reduce your mortgage as fast as you possibly can; by INCREASING it you are jeopardising the roof over your head. People have such f*cked-up ideas about money.

[winkie]

My parents bought their 3 bed semi with garage in London N20 in 1965 for £3.5K

I bought my 1st 3 bed double fronted house in EN4 in 1983 £39950 but interest rates then were 12%.

[Mark5290]

My grandparents bought a 3 bedroom semi detached house with a £2,000 loan from the bank in the 1950's, it was sold in 2002 for £80,000 after my grandmother died, houses in that area now are around the £120,000 mark.

In 2000 i looked at a 3 bedroom end terrace, long garden, wooden garage, not too bad an area(but it had nice views of a reclamation centre) for £48,000.

3 bed terrace/end terrace in better areas were going for between £50,000 and £65,000.

These houses have more than doubled in price now, at the time my basic salary was about £17,000, so with sensible lending multiples i could have afforded these properties, however with not much savings, car loans, other expenses i did not want to take out a 100 per cent mortgage and risk going into negative equity.

Where is the well and truly p*ssed off emoticon.

[Casual Observer]

Topher Bear, on Dec 11 2004, 01:00 AM, said:

There is this current trend to think that FTBs should be looking at 1 and 2 bed flats (and if their lucky 1 and 2 bed houses) as a first step on the ladder, and that this has always been the case.  Is this Fact or Fiction? 

To be honest I don't know, but we could do some research right here.  For all those lucky enough to have been a FTB before the madness that have been the 80's, 90's and now 00's in terms of housing, and for everyone else their parents/grandparents experiences.  Please let us know here in this thread, when and what did you/your parents/grandparents buy as their FTB property?

I'll start

My parents bought their first place in 1968, it was a 3 bed new build, but they did get significant help from my grandfather.
whos next?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First house 1975 - 3 bedroom mid-terrace in cheap area of S Essex, £10,500.
sold it for £11,750 in 1977 and bought 3 bed semi in nicer area for £16,500 (got a £14.5k mortgage and every one said we were mad) Sold this in 1994 for £95,000 and took out a £110k mortgage to buy present house for £180k- 4 bed detached in expensive area. Lots of improvements and 2 extensions and it was valued at £650,000 in April this year. Paid off mortgage with savings this year.

[Clueless]

My first house was a two bed room semi with detached garage in 1986 (aged 18). It was priced at 16.5k which was then a bit less than twice my individual earnings. My how things change.

[wannabe FTB]

this thread is unbelievable. I read the channel 4 forum quite a lot and ftbers are always told we're expecting too much and to buy a one bed and shut up cos everyone has it tough.

When I buy I'd like to buy somewhere big enough to have a family, as my dream has always been to be a full time mum. i don't see this happening as there is no way even with 30% drops we could buy on my husbands salary.

[zzg113]

The Channel 4 Forum is full of w@nkers. Read the recent thread about someone not being able to move into their new house so wanting to stay in their old house for a bit. From the reactions of the people on there you'd think they'd suggested biting babies heads off and feeding them to the wolves. Bunch of c*nts. Even with 50% falls this generation of FTBs will not be able to buy as much house for their money as the baby-boomers.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Quote

this thread is unbelievable.  I read the channel 4 forum quite a lot and ftbers are always told we're expecting too much and to buy a one bed and shut up cos everyone has it tough.

wannabe is right. The thing is, even a mouldy one-bed hole is out of reach of most FTBs across the nation.

The high cost of living, especially housing, and a deksilled, McJob-heavy economy is severely impoverishing 20 and 30 somethings. In fact, a decade ago during the mass-downsizing era, sociologists were identifying a genration that do not witness the same abundance as their parents. The mid-90s saw the Tories improving the economy rapidly but the media endlessly pondered why there was no feel-good factor (hardly a mystery when companies were making huge profits and thanking workers with the sack).

I know I bang on about his stuff, but I do feel that the folk in highly-paid sinecures that can afford to post here all day don't realise just how badly off the younger generation are as a whole.

And if you want to be a Mum or a Dad, well, face poverty or forget it.

[Casual Observer]

zzg113, on Dec 11 2004, 06:09 PM, said:

The Channel 4 Forum is full of w@nkers. Read the recent thread about someone not being able to move into their new house so wanting to stay in their old house for a bit. From the reactions of the people on there you'd think they'd suggested biting babies heads off and feeding them to the wolves. Bunch of c*nts. Even with 50% falls this generation of FTBs will not be able to buy as much house for their money as the baby-boomers.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well....... The big difference is the absence of wage inflation. If you look at my post 4 or 5 up, I really struggled to buy my first house, which really wasn't very nice. I could only have afforded a I bed flat in a better area, but chose a cheaper area and slightly bigger house. The big difference was that after yearly 20% wage increase (yes really) your huge mortgage became manageable, and you could think about trading up.

SO.... oldies like me are not far off the mark when they say it was hard to buy a house, however inflation helped. My elder brothers had to rent for 3 to 4 years, do without and save to get on the ladder.

[zzg113]

I think with globalisation, huge immigration and outsourcing, we will never see large-scale wage inflation again.

[zzg113]

Quote

The mid-90s saw the Tories improving the economy rapidly but the media endlessly pondered why there was no feel-good factor (hardly a mystery when companies were making huge profits and thanking workers with the sack).

An improving economy does not= more jobs, or more well-paid jobs. Actually, an improving economy can sometimes mean less jobs, as firms increase profits by cutting costs (ie jobs). For every increase in productivity, there is one more job lost.

[Casual Observer]

zzg113, on Dec 11 2004, 06:21 PM, said:

I think with globalisation, huge immigration and outsourcing, we will never see large-scale wage inflation again.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I hope not. Whilst good for mortgagees it was a disaster for people on fixed incomes e.g. pensioners.

Having tackled inflation, the property market just needs to wake up to the fact that buying a house is now "long-term" loaded i.e. prices need to drop to levels that allow people to trade up throughout their lives.

For these reasons, prices simply have to fall - there is nothing to prop them up and cause future increases in values. The recent years' increase is simply a speculator fed bubble, which has to burst - it's not natural or real.