gfromls Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Many posters will be too young to remember the state of the housing market in this period, others may have forgot. Obviously houses were cheaper! – most people are aware that typically prices are 3x what they were back then – but that’s not the whole story. When prices hit rock bottom the bottom end of the market suffered most, prices were so low in parts of the north that even a full time position at MacDonald’s would be sufficient to get a mortgage (3x wage – single person) for a nice clean 2 bed terrace in a decent area, in fact you’d be spoilt for choice, and it would cost about the same as renting a smelly one bed flat in a drug infested council tower block. But what about the other end of town – the inner city back to backs the ex council houses… Well, simply no one wanted them, (anyone could get a mortgage for a decent place in a decent part of town) prices fell through the floor, houses were abandoned (yes abandoned) as owners could not sell and weren’t prepared to live in an area that had been taken over by the vandals, junkies and salvage mobs (gangs who would strip empty properties and sell roof slates, boilers, radiators even windows on the black market) Estate agents were full of houses in the £15,000 to £25,000 range (good house – bad area) Lots of houses that needed a bit of work £10,000 to £15,000 (poor house – bad area) And if you went to auction, well…under £10,000 was very common, and for the places that had the vandal/ salvage mob “treatment” £1,000 to £5,000 was about right. (it was even possible to buy a house for a grand AND loose a fortune). Many of you will doubt me – I know But mark my words, it happened – a saw it with my own eyes. Obviously these houses HAD been worth more in the late eighties in the boom. Many of these areas are NOW seen as “trendy” or “up and coming” If you are thinking of buying now…. Do try to stay away from the very bottom end of the market particularly in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamUK Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 (edited) I started on £17,600 fresh from uni in 1995 and I remember Harbinder buying a 3 bed semi with garage and garden for £54,000 - okay, not in the nicest of areas but not in a bad area either, obviously a starter home. How many could afford that type of house now? (and, paradoxically, the population of the North East is is now lower than what it was ten years ago! (3.5% drop from 1991 to 2001 census)) Edited September 9, 2006 by adamUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancghirl Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Up until the BTL mob steamed in, you could buy a terraced house in certain pubs in Burnley for around about the £50 mark. Ah, the good old days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverInflated Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Up until the BTL mob steamed in, you could buy a terraced house in certain pubs in Burnley for around about the £50 mark. Ah, the good old days..... And that was overpriced as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlad1967 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I was living in the US during this time.... But I remember coming back to see family and had a look in a few EA windows as I was thinking of moving back. I remember being surprised at how many bargains there were. EA's would literally jump on you if they thought you were interested. The smug and spotty brigade had long since moved on by this time... I eventually moved back to the SE in December '99 and started looking for a house. All my friends were telling me that we were due for a correction and I remember a few very bearish articles in the press. I didn't buy. I decided to do contract work to save up a larger deposit and didn't want to get saddled with a mortgage being a contractor. HOW WRONG I WAS That's when I decided to do my own research rather than follow the crowd. I made the mistake once and won't do it again. Still, the way things are going I believe that it will unravell pretty quickly. Oh - gone off the point a bit haven't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfromls Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 Up until the BTL mob steamed in, you could buy a terraced house in certain pubs in Burnley for around about the £50 mark. Ah, the good old days..... I know a chap who paid £1,000 for a 3 bed ex council house in 1995 ( which had been sold in 1988 for £14,000) it had been smashed to bits by local kids. He spent 3 months and £8,000 doing it up – finished working on it one day (looking good). Came back the next day – place had been striped and burnt out. No insurance btw (not available in that area at that time) Sold it to another mate for £500 – the council bought it from him and knocked it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 (edited) I know a chap who paid £1,000 for a 3 bed ex council house in 1995 ( which had been sold in 1988 for £14,000) it had been smashed to bits by local kids. He spent 3 months and £8,000 doing it up – finished working on it one day (looking good). Came back the next day – place had been striped and burnt out. No insurance btw (not available in that area at that time) Sold it to another mate for £500 – the council bought it from him and knocked it down. gfromls, people really don't believe me when I quote prices from the 90's after the crash (or - Great Crash 1 , houses sold for £1000 (can't remember anything less than this) & you could buy a street for 15-20k, in the North East where I used to live. ps - your username, is it G-from-a_place_called_LS ? Edited September 9, 2006 by grumpy-old-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDive Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Many of you will doubt me – I know But mark my words, it happened – a saw it with my own eyes. People are sheeple, they hear about prices going up for a few years and they believe it can never go down. When the HPC comes, they will hear about prices going down for a few years and they will believe it will never go up. Never underestimate the flock instinct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambam Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Many posters will be too young to remember the state of the housing market in this period, others may have forgot. Obviously houses were cheaper! – most people are aware that typically prices are 3x what they were back then – but that’s not the whole story. When prices hit rock bottom the bottom end of the market suffered most, prices were so low in parts of the north that even a full time position at MacDonald’s would be sufficient to get a mortgage (3x wage – single person) for a nice clean 2 bed terrace in a decent area, in fact you’d be spoilt for choice, and it would cost about the same as renting a smelly one bed flat in a drug infested council tower block. But what about the other end of town – the inner city back to backs the ex council houses… Well, simply no one wanted them, (anyone could get a mortgage for a decent place in a decent part of town) prices fell through the floor, houses were abandoned (yes abandoned) as owners could not sell and weren’t prepared to live in an area that had been taken over by the vandals, junkies and salvage mobs (gangs who would strip empty properties and sell roof slates, boilers, radiators even windows on the black market) Estate agents were full of houses in the £15,000 to £25,000 range (good house – bad area) Lots of houses that needed a bit of work £10,000 to £15,000 (poor house – bad area) And if you went to auction, well…under £10,000 was very common, and for the places that had the vandal/ salvage mob “treatment” £1,000 to £5,000 was about right. (it was even possible to buy a house for a grand AND loose a fortune). I remember watching a BBC documentary about a nice old couple living in Moss Side. They were the only people left who weren't crack dealers in the area. They put their house up for auction. They were shown desperate, they said 'We need to make £4,000 to get out of here'. In the end it went for £3,200, below reserve, and they were stuck there. The house was absolutely fine, just the neighbours were the problem. There was also some mention of people buying up entire streets in these sink estates for a few grand and knocking it down. This was no more than about 10 years ago. Now, a house in Moss Side can go for £100k or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dessie123 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I remember watching a BBC documentary about a nice old couple living in Moss Side. They were the only people left who weren't crack dealers in the area. They put their house up for auction. They were shown desperate, they said 'We need to make £4,000 to get out of here'. In the end it went for £3,200, below reserve, and they were stuck there. The house was absolutely fine, just the neighbours were the problem. There was also some mention of people buying up entire streets in these sink estates for a few grand and knocking it down. This was no more than about 10 years ago. Now, a house in Moss Side can go for £100k or more. Excuse me for my ignorance but this thread leaves me with a burning question..... What has happened to these people who once made these areas uninhabitable? If they are no longer 'no go' zones then britain is indeed a better place to live! Congrats to NuLabour/HPI !! If they still have major social problems, why the f**k are houses 100K, who bought them? I still wouldnt pay 5K for it, too much hassle! ??confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once in a lifetime Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 This is a very significant thread. I‘ve told my story time and time again, I’m sick of repeating it. But there are recent posters that claim the last cash wasn’t that bad!! they are dangerously misguided, relying on internet data that’s hiding real property price falls among ‘averages’. that... or they’re just VI’s. Last crash hit hard, hit fast, and had a real effect on people’s sentiment. (Here we go again!) Bought in 1989 at the height, mixed stories in the media even then. property prices to fall, property prices to rise, etc... My group of friends were 50%-50% living with parents / buying their first home. I couldn’t afford a mortgage so I didn’t consider buying and I felt like I’d missed an opportunity (missed the boat) The dangerous mind-set altered, when I came into money (through the death of a parent) Now I could buy ! I was getting married the next year so everything seemed to be pointing logically to buying , this was in north London, and at that time £80k got you a basic shed studio flat. I remember meeting my girlfriend at a cafe during a dinner break, when an old woman overheard our conversation about buying an ex-council house. She turned to face us and said that house prices will come down!!! best to wait a little while. we had polite conversation with her, listening to her opinion. But did we take her advice...? no, we were so convinced we were doing the right thing we’re getting an absolute bargain, didn’t want to lose the property. getting our future on track and didn’t want to miss out again! We bought 3 bed N18 £90k in 1989. started our family got on with life, didn’t notice the crash except for news items on the telly and of course the mortgage repayments got higher and higher with interest rate hikes then Black Wednesday (John Major) interest rates shot right up! the country was now in debt crisis. a lot of people had over stretched themselves on mortgages and recession was really kicking in. we weren’t that bad off because of the equity in the property, my friends however were starting to struggle with their mortgages, over the years some moved in with their girlfriends (who also bought ) and rented out unofficially their properties. (e.g. not informing the bank or taxman.) if they got caught I don’t know what would have happened. luckily they didn’t. I started to notice a lot of nice properties for sale that was within my price range and I seriously couldn’t believe what I could now afford. We put our property on the market and sold really quickly, within hours of an estate agents view and estimate, we were messed about by the buyer, couldn’t get a mortgage and again sold within a day or two going back on the market. Sold 1993 £56k a drop of £36k from £90k ~38% down in 4 years! the new property was slightly higher mortgage bigger property massive garage nicer area, most of our equity eaten up. but at least we could trade, my friends couldn’t. Only a few that bought earlier in the boom. (again they had less negative equity) For many years afterwards house prices slowly rose I traded up twice not struggling to find a mortgage or property. Two of my friends sold their unofficial rented properties after 2001 when they achieved positive equity, to my knowledge they never went back into renting property out (BTL) officially or unofficially. So what. you can’t find anything on the internet that backs up my story? nor - can I? the best link here and one that get reposted (not enough IMO) shows how the media acted against our best interests by giving false statement and propaganda. Something house sellers like me in 1993 can disprove. Don’t listen to those that say it wasn’t that bad last time. they didn’t sell then. IT HURT. IT HURT BAD. This website, like a few others, are that old lady that had wisdom I didn’t listen to. If I had listen to her I would be ‘minted’ now. that money I had would have bought much more just a few years later on. burnt before. Excuse me for my ignorance but this thread leaves me with a burning question..... What has happened to these people who once made these areas uninhabitable? If they are no longer 'no go' zones then britain is indeed a better place to live! Congrats to NuLabour/HPI !! If they still have major social problems, why the f**k are houses 100K, who bought them? I still wouldnt pay 5K for it, too much hassle! ??confused Visit neighbours from hell forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 In the early 90s you could buy an average house in London for 60K ( 3 bedroom), 80K got you a 3 bedroom in a decent area. The one thing I have noticed that wages havn't changed much. In the early 90s an average IT worker was getting 20K-30K (permanant) in London . Alot of my friend in their mid 20s were on this with no college debt and with the high interest rates were able to compound their savings. Even though interest rates were high prices were low and they had decent income in relation to repayments. Unskilled wages have hardly moved at all which is frightening since then. The fact is we are talking of the big migration movement of Eastern European coming in to save the housing economy. Do you remember prior to the crash of the early 90s we had half of Ireland working in London before their economy improved. The Irish worked hard and bought property back in Ireland at low prices then wth the money they earned. To get rental accomodation a house, flat or even a shared accomodation was like looking for a full time job then. With the eastern European migration the same will happen. Who is replacing our cashed up migrants going overseas, they are arriving overseas with huge deposits to buy property which wil benefit countries like Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada. The people arriving on the UK shores skilled or unskilled havn't got the same capital or pre-purchaing power from eastern Europe. Alot of people stayed out property in the early 90s because of hearing horror stories of their own friends, debt, unemployment,job insecurity, negative equity, where will prices drop to, like the boom(its never going to stop going up) times there was a feeling with the downturn this is never going to end. Remember the arguments I hear now were goingh round in 1988. All you need to do is look at history though its different this time . To summise it all falls down to to two basic Human Emotion Fear(Crash) and Greed(Boom). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immigrant Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 (edited) Let's suppose the uber-bears are right and we do have the mother of all crashes. Let's suppose it's so bad that in some places houses are going for less than £10K. I don't think I'm the only one who would want to buy up some of those houses, and wait for the next boom which will surely come along sooner or later. The smart money will have learnt from last time. That's why I don't think it will get that bad again. We may have a crash/correction, but houses going for < £10K? I think they will be hoovered up by investors with their eye on the long-term, long before they reach that price. Edited September 10, 2006 by Immigrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dessie123 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Let's suppose the uber-bears are right and we do have the mother of all crashes. Let's suppose it's so bad that in some places houses are going for less than £10K. I don't think I'm the only one who would want to buy up some of those houses, and wait for the next boom which will surely come along sooner or later. The smart money will have learnt from last time. That's why I don't think it will get that bad again. We may have a crash/correction, but houses going for < £10K? I think they will be hoovered up by investors with their eye on the long-term, long before they reach that price. I disagree! These houses were in streets full of boarded up houses! no prospects! getting vandalised/burgled/burnt out quite regularly!I recall visiting such an area years ago! weren't worth a penny in my book! Way too much hassle, especially as an investment option! I'm still hoping someone can answer my question, where are all these undesirables now the houses have 'value'? If they are now acceptable/improved neighbourhoods, Nulabour have indeed bought about social change........and should be credited! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Let's suppose the uber-bears are right and we do have the mother of all crashes. Let's suppose it's so bad that in some places houses are going for less than £10K. I don't think I'm the only one who would want to buy up some of those houses, and wait for the next boom which will surely come along sooner or later. The smart money will have learnt from last time. That's why I don't think it will get that bad again. We may have a crash/correction, but houses going for < £10K? I think they will be hoovered up by investors with their eye on the long-term, long before they reach that price. The fact nobody knows. Imagine on the eve of the Wall Street Crash the perspective of what share and property was worth and then afterwards, its all down to particular events at the time . Also what money is worth with either deflation or inflation. I know shares are different to property in fundamentals etc . But I couldn't belive people buying Yahoo for over $200 now its worth $30 its all relative....it depends how much is for sale at the price it boils down to glut or scarcity. A glut you can get something for nothing, scarcity you pay a premium. Property and Share boils down what a person is willing to pay for it, that whats props up the price. In Australia your house eveluation is based on the last 3 similar properties sold within an area in the last 6 months. Though as we know evalations mean nothing in a bull or bear market. Hindsight is a great thing but one thing that doesn't change is people emotions. We have been through the Greed Cycle we are now approaching the Fear Cycle. The Fear Cycle is I need to get out of the market now, I don't care how, take the money and run, I will drop the price 30 K and get out, I am not getting into the market in a downward cycle, Downsizing etc. Reverse the Buyers pschology in a boom at an auction of a 100 peopple to the sellers psychology in a downward market...this where prices drop fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 The fact nobody knows. Imagine on the eve of the Wall Street Crash the perspective of what share and property was worth and then afterwards, its all down to particular events at the time . Also what money is worth with either deflation or inflation. I know shares are different to property in fundamentals etc . But I couldn't belive people buying Yahoo for over $200 now its worth $30 its all relative....it depends how much is for sale at the price it boils down to glut or scarcity. A glut you can get something for nothing, scarcity you pay a premium. Property and Share boils down what a person is willing to pay for it, that whats props up the price. In Australia your house eveluation is based on the last 3 similar properties sold within an area in the last 6 months. Though as we know evalations mean nothing in a bull or bear market. Hindsight is a great thing but one thing that doesn't change is people emotions. We have been through the Greed Cycle we are now approaching the Fear Cycle. The Fear Cycle is I need to get out of the market now, I don't care how, take the money and run, I will drop the price 30 K and get out, I am not getting into the market in a downward cycle, Downsizing etc. Reverse the Buyers pschology in a boom at an auction of a 100 peopple to the sellers psychology in a downward market...this where prices drop fast. Houses will never be as cheap again, historically housing crashes mean prices fall 40% off peak, so if we are saying average price is now 200k, the trough maybe about 120k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbins Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 This is a very significant thread. this was in north London, and at that time £80k got you a basic shed studio flat. Now £200k buys you the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeenItAllBefore Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 then Black Wednesday (John Major)interest rates shot right up! the country was now in debt crisis. a lot of people had over stretched themselves on mortgages and recession was really kicking in. Interest rates fell after Black Wednesday - within a few months they were down to just 6%. The high interest rate damage was done long before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PropertyGuru Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 This is indeed a significant thread. The last crash hit VERY hard. Even as late as 1996, prices were only just recovering. in fact, a friend bought a 3 bed terraced house in good condition just off Shepherd's Bush Green for £145,000 Won't even get you a studio now. Also interestingly, he sold up last year and emigrated to Oz where his tax free windfall got him a palace overlooking the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
better-than-expected Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I remember a lot of people at work lost their homes in this time and like other posters have said i too remember whole streets selling for 5k. Just up the road from me is a place called Jaywick. Properties in this area were selling for 3k each in the early 90's but they are now 100k!!! It is funny how soon people forget the past as if it were all a dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDive Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 (edited) Let's suppose it's so bad that in some places houses are going for less than £10K. I don't think I'm the only one who would want to buy up some of those houses, and wait for the next boom which will surely come along sooner or later. The smart money will have learnt from last time. When prices have crashed and are stagnant over a period of years - People with your mentality(the vast majority - sheeple) will be the same guys who will be saying 'houses will never go up significantly again', that is a certainty. The same people who are saying prices will never crash now, will be the same people who will be saying prices will never go up again after the crash. Talk is cheap my friend - Buying into a crashed, stagnant market after a few years of bad news is something the sheeple (vast majority) are unable to do. As selling into a topped, seemingly buoyant market after a few years of good news as we have now is something the sheeple are unable to do. Edited September 10, 2006 by CrashDive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancghirl Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I disagree! These houses were in streets full of boarded up houses! no prospects! getting vandalised/burgled/burnt out quite regularly!I recall visiting such an area years ago! weren't worth a penny in my book! Way too much hassle, especially as an investment option! I'm still hoping someone can answer my question, where are all these undesirables now the houses have 'value'? If they are now acceptable/improved neighbourhoods, Nulabour have indeed bought about social change........and should be credited! They haven't though, some of these sh*teholes are worse than ever. The only difference is that the houses are owned by some BTL mug who bought it for £25 to 50k thinking they were getting a 'bargain' and will never, ever be able to sell it to an Owner Occupier. Look on any Burnley EA website and and see how many back to back terraces are up for sale 'no chain'. Same in parts of Salford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Della Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 (edited) Let's suppose the uber-bears are right and we do have the mother of all crashes. Let's suppose it's so bad that in some places houses are going for less than £10K. I don't think I'm the only one who would want to buy up some of those houses, and wait for the next boom which will surely come along sooner or later. The smart money will have learnt from last time. That's why I don't think it will get that bad again. We may have a crash/correction, but houses going for < £10K? I think they will be hoovered up by investors with their eye on the long-term, long before they reach that price. I have thought about this angle, it is erroneous. If it were to be the case that the mass of the public would look back at history and aggree to not have a housing crash then why are we in this bubble? It is really obvious that prices are unsustainable at these levels. I could just as well say there will never be another housing bubble, but I know another one will happen because people are stupid and have little interest in the past. BTW: Here are housing stories from the American press about Britain in the early 90s. http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22...=N&start=10 One of the headlines is "Farewell to house price booms" Oct 1 1994 Edited September 10, 2006 by Della Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfromls Posted September 10, 2006 Author Share Posted September 10, 2006 Done a bit of research, and have stumbled onto something that I hadn’t considered before. I went to houseprices.co.uk and typed in a street were I knew that property was cheap (bude road, leeds) unfortunately it only went back to 2001, which is a shame because if it had gone back to 1995 it would have confirmed the prices mentioned in the first post. You can see that in 4 years hpi is at 550%. 10, Bude Road, Leeds, 08/06/2001 £10,500 16, Bude Road, Leeds, 01/05/2002 £17,260 10, Bude Road, Leeds, 21/03/2003 £27,100 47, Bude Road, Leeds, 26/11/2003 £41,000 12, Bude Road, Leeds, 09/12/2005 £65,000 http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=bude+...+leeds&n=10 the first house was sold before 9/11 (when some suggest the word was flooded with cheap money), a year later the next house was sold 65% higher. The next house a year later - for another 60% higher Now… at this point many local investors (the pro’s not the btl posse) would realey start to question how much higher prices could go (from £10,500 to 27,100 + 160% in 2 years), many would be reluctant to buy – (most did stop buying). But prices continued to rise… WHY…. Because prices had reached the magical £25,000 mark (you can’t get a mortgage for under £25,000) this was the green light for the btl idiots. If you think that idiots is too harsh a word…. Do the maths Price £65,000 rent £3,000 (absulute max if your realy lucky) so a £65,000 investment gives a 5% return. However they need a mortgage : Repayments = £2600 per year Interest = £3250 per year Total £5850 per year (that’s without paying for continued repairs) Loss = £2800 per year Conclusion – the only reason someone could possibly justify paying £65,000 for a property which was worth £10,000 4 years earlier and £3 – 5,000 10 years ago is because THEY BELIEVE that prices will continue to rise at the same rate. However in the coming moths / years many btl ers will realize that their “investment” is losing money hand over fist and not gaining any “value” Low end property will be dumped on the market And many late btl “investors” will find out what property “value” is all about. As I said in my first post - If you are thinking of buying now…. Do try to stay away from the very bottom end of the market particularly in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpico Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I am probably a lot older than most posters here and have seenand experienced the peaks and troughs of the economy and house and commercial property prices since the late fifties, I am also partially blind so any stupid errors in my post are not through any illiteracy or poor education, thats why I do not post as often as I used Several things control our financial destiny, employment and earnings, interest rates, and the most crucial of all, debt liability and the ability to cober our creditors and liabilities. I was born and bred in Birmingham before the war which was the centre of world manufacturing industry, its moto was 'Forward' if you want it we can make it many of the finest industrialists in the world such as James Watt and Matthew Bolton centred around Soho, which is now Handsworth, Aston and Sandwell. My early expereiences of industry were during the war and my mother working as one of 19,000 employees manufacturing and building Spitfires and Lancasters at Vickers Castle Bromwhich on a 500 acre site givent to Churchill and the country by a wealthy landowner. After the war when I was nearing leaving school we were regularly visited by people from such companies as Joseph Lucas, Dinlop Avery's scales, Cadbury's and many of the worlds leading manufacturers looking to recruit apprentices, the Birmingham mail was a large broadsheett it was full of every concievable type of secure well paid jobs, at the time you expected to remain in a secure job for life. I started a five year indentured engineering apprenticeship with one the most worlds most famous motor cycle manufacturers, I was immediately enrolled at the Cadbury Companies own technical Ccllege at Bournville for one day a week. I prospered and could afford everything I needed, I lived in a Council prefab built for such as my father returning from the far east totally blind from combat injury, my father was was immediately also found fully time employment in a factory in Hockley were he worked till he retired and got ironically the gold watch, my mother left Vickers and worked until she retired for a gunsmith in what was known as the gun quarter. A girl who was a bit older than me has been my Sunday school teacher who lived in a terraced back to back with her mother who was very poor having lost her father in the war won a scholarship to King Edwards grammerr school in Handsworth still one of, if still not the finest in the country. she qualified as a Pharmacist at 19 four years later we married and opened our own Pharmacy a brand new large shop with a flat large garden and a rear garage cost, £2,000. the business prospered and interest rates were similar to today, I had a seriously good job with all the overtime I could work, almost everything manufactured was for export. There was long waiting list for new cars and motor cycles, in the factory I worked every month big banners went up. "The Boats Coming In" referring to the cargo ships arriving from America, which meant everyone was to expected to work overtime and switch jobs to wrapping and crating, it meant everyone from engineers, toolmakers and drawing room staff, we had full order books for months ahead with the Berliner Corporation the importers in New York. In the early sixties things changed, I cannot recall why, I was not as aware in those days of market fluctuations as I am now, but there was a serious recession, sales slowed dealer were going bust by the shed load, including the biggest in the country, Kings of Oxford owned by Mike Hailwoods multi milliuonaire father Stan, the company I worked was taken over and moved to London, I immediately got a job with gunmakers Webley and Scott by West Bromwhich football ground. One of the cleverest racing motor cycle development engineers I ever met and had been apprebtice to went self employed painting and decorating and never returned to industry. The Pharmacy continued to grow and proper and every year I bought the wife a new car, she earned it the hours she worked not a Morris Minor, but decent kit Wolseley 6/99 the a 6/110, a 3litre Princess a Jaguar 3.8s and another 3.8s followed by a Rover 3.5 coupe a Lancia Flaminia coupe and Jensen. We sold the Pharmacy to Boots because my wife had caught TB of a patient and I bought a good motor cycle business in Cheshire, the trade was making a huge comeback with the Japanese, I had four franchises Honda, Suzuki Yamaha and BMW, we made remarkable progress over the years increasing the turnover from £75K to £1.4m (yes million), the previous owner had been in the job since the war, made his packet and just kept it on as a hobby, we expanded into engineering, racing engines, insurance and finance brokerage, plus we were exporting a substantial amount of new Honda cummuter machines and spare parts to the the Gambian government in Banjul for the use of medical and aid workers. We opened a second business in 1975, the first business was a very large showroom, plus worhops and car park with three flats, which we used as offices and stores,a large clothing accessories and spares departments and accident repairs all boosted income this was in one of the wealthiest areas of Cheshire, the second business was not so big but had a good showroom workshop and a flat above we did not lease these premises we bought them, in addition I rented a vast newly built chicken battery house that had been built by a local farmer who failed to get planning , I stored up to 500 new motor cycles in crates there, if you did not forward order from Japan you were selling from an empty barrow. by 1977 we were employing 27 staff and woking all hours, every year we won many holidays for reaching sales targets, Japan, Acapulco, Greek Island Cruises, the States, Cannes etc, we never took them because we could not spare the time, we took just two in 1979 and 1980 to the states, the rest we gave to the staff by drawing the highest card , win one, and you were excluded from the next draw. Deals were plentiful, because of the volume of business I could afford to buy big, a tasty one was a **** up at the Cooperative Wholesale Society, some idiot ordered 24,000 pint bottles of Castrol two stroke oil, unfortunately with a chain saw label on them, it was the same stuff as Castrol TT motor cycle oil, I bought the lot at 2p a bottle, stacked it high sold it cheap at 65p well below RRP. In 1976 I was offered a house by the boss of the business next door an E.A it was in Burton on the Wirral very expensive and exclusive area, five bed bungalow four car garage 3 are garden, paddock, and large 7 acre field, it had a massive sandstone wall frontage with double gates at each end, he showed me brochure £59Km it had been empty and overgrown for a few years I knew the place and laughed it him, he persisted and offered the keys and told me to have a look inside and around the back. I took the wife for a look, massive gravel drive and frontage was knee deep in grass and the garfens were overgrown and inpenatrable, the inside of the house was huge the lounge was 46ft, the kitchen was old and dated with a rayburn and the huge bsathroom was antique with black tyling and what like a ships boiler room showet it had two sets of french windows one from the lounge and one from the master bedroom/dressing room leading onto a massive raised patio with steps to the gardens, the view across the river dee to north Wales was stunning, all the windows and french windows were old steel framed. The wife loved it but it wanted a lot spent, I went back and told the guy no way at £59K, he opened a foulder and slid a letter out just as far as the heading HM Customs & Excise VAT Recovery was all I could see, bid me at it? okay £15K it want;s a fortune spending and a years work, he told me to piss off I was not going to nick it, it had been subject of a Court charging order and a four Court battle with the Wirrakls biggest Audi/VW dealer who had gone bus. I eventually went £30 and got it, the wife spent a year and £35k (thirty years ago) Totally gutted new kitchen etc new tramacked dribe sandstone wall rebuilt with two sets of 9ft Oack gates new tarmac deive to the paddock four stable block and tackroom and a new full size all weather riding menage. We had a housewarming garden party three knights of the realm and members of government members , Japanese company bosses from Handa Yamaha and Suzuki and government Minister of Transport who is now a peer. Nice? live in Australian groom, top class hunters in the stables, gardener, Bentley T11 and the wifes Mercedes 450se in the garage, lovely jubbly. I had just a 9K mortgage on the place, it sold a year last may for £985K. I was also sponsoring a 10 time Isle of man T.T winner and and world champion motor cycle racer plus a couple of good blokes on a sidecar outfit. £985K great stuff the trouble is it was NOT SOLD BY ME!!!, Not the end of the story but my eyes are acheing, going for a walk along the stunning Atlantic coat of Ireland with the dog then I will come back and tell you how it all goes pear shaped, not only for us but ten of thousands of others many close friends one for £50 MILLION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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