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Morocco - My Next Target


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#106 andy welland

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 12:19 PM

Please someone enlighten me on the point I'm missing.

Of course that is just my opinion and I wish everybody the best of luck.
[/quote]


Hi Big Log,

For me alot of my clients are not looking for relocation but a holiday home or an investment. Morocco at the moment is the place that is the most attractive with regards to purchasing costs, taxes, capital growth etc etc etc. Yes they may want to use it for a couple of weeks in the year but apart from that they are in it to try and make some money.

If you take the UK as an example there is now a property show every weekend in every major town. The world is becoming a smaller place and people are looking for ways to make their money go that little bit further.

The biggest problem as far as i can see is that there is now an "emerging market " every day. one person will tell you that Poland is the most up and coming place and another might say its Morocco. We have people looking everywhere from Bulgaria to Brazil. I really do believe that there is great investment in every country in the world it is just a question of finding it.
This is why we wont deal with every development in a country because not all of it is good.

The other problem you then have is when agents just jump on the bandwagon and are in it purely to earn a quick buck and dont give a t0$$ what they sell to people.

I have always said that if i wouldnt sell it to my mother then i wouldnt sell it to anyone.

My view is that you never tell a lie to a client becase if you do one day you will have to remember what it was you said and then things go wrong.

Provide them with the informtion to do their own research and if from that your company has provided a good service and has built up a good relationship with them you should keep that business. It works for us and we also get alot of client referals from it.

#107 andy welland

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 12:35 PM

Andy,

very good to hear your view on Saidia.

Question for you. Property Logic are advertising a fully furnished apartment and villa, yet the contract only states that a "furniture package" will be added to the contract once they have been finalised and selected. Although not expecting any level of detail, I've been trying to get a high level inventory included in my contract (to state that a/c; beds; sofas; cookers tvs etc), but they're not moving. Have you come against this problem with PL before and have any of your clients managed to get them to change the contract to reflect this.



Hi Scotty,

Dog Box has pretty much summed it up. I also think that the main reason why they are not ready with the furniture packs yet is because they dont even start construction until November with completion 2 and half years away from now. If you have any problems regarding contracts you should make sure that it is dealt with by your lawyer prior to signing, as this is what you are paying them for. Property Logic have been very helpfull with all of my clients.

#108 andy welland

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 01:07 PM

Hi Andy/Dog box

If the owner of the property is likely to receive around a 3% yield (I understand that this is not yet confirmed), this equates to approx £450 (on a £180k investment) - assuming constant rent for a full year. So why does it matter what the rent charged is - the management company is likely to pocket the difference?

Apologies for all the questions - I am looking for an investment in Morocco and want to consider all options open to me.

Thanks.



Hi fabs,

If you want to get all of the info currently available without getting involved with agents and to compare all developers in La Saidia please check out the following websites.

www.lejardindefleur.com - Property Logic
www.oasismorocco.com - Superior
www.fadesa.co.uk - Fadesa
www.grupotasa.com - Tasa

Also dont worry about asking lots of questions as you must make sure that you feel comfortable with any purchase you make. It is very easy for agents to sit there and say that it is a great investment and it does have great rental potential, but its not their money.

I would advise that you first of all try and pin it down to a certain development and then go over and have a look. I presume that you are in the UK???

As an example with jardin de fleur you could put down a fully refundable 3000€ / £2000 reservation to take a property of the market ( i would suggest doing this before the 15th of June to secure the current price) You then have 30 days in which to come over and have a look and decide if you want to go to private purchase contract.
You as the client would then cover the cost of flights from the UK to Malaga and would also need to pay for a couple of nights accom which lets face it wouldnt be a lot (normally Thursday - Saturday) If you chose to do this with www.propertyshowrooms.com we would then cover the cost of your flight by private jet with property logic from Malaga to Oujda. We would then tour you around La Saidia, go for some lunch and then fly back to Malaga the same day.
The worst case scenario is that you reserve a property, come over to have a look and then say " andy its not for me" we would then get you your reservation deposit back........but the main thing is you would have seen it.

With superior it is slightly different as they say that the client pays for the flights from the UK to Malaga and also from Malaga to Melia with Superior picking up the bill for the accom. If you didnt want to go ahead then superior would charge a £100 admin fee from your reservation deposit.......but again at least you would have seen it.

Both companies take you into Fadesa´s office to see the 2 and 3 bed apartments so either way you will have a better idea of what is all about.

I always say to people that you can to as much research as you want at exhibitions or on the internet but there is nothing better than standing on the development yourself. For the amount of money that you are looking to invest and in the grander scheme of things to pay for a couple of flights and some accomodation and have the experience of seeing it is worth every penny.

#109 fabs35

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 01:20 PM

Hi fabs,

If you want to get all of the info currently available without getting involved with agents and to compare all developers in La Saidia please check out the following websites.

www.lejardindefleur.com - Property Logic
www.oasismorocco.com - Superior
www.fadesa.co.uk - Fadesa
www.grupotasa.com - Tasa

Also dont worry about asking lots of questions as you must make sure that you feel comfortable with any purchase you make. It is very easy for agents to sit there and say that it is a great investment and it does have great rental potential, but its not their money.

I would advise that you first of all try and pin it down to a certain development and then go over and have a look. I presume that you are in the UK???

As an example with jardin de fleur you could put down a fully refundable 3000€ / £2000 reservation to take a property of the market ( i would suggest doing this before the 15th of June to secure the current price) You then have 30 days in which to come over and have a look and decide if you want to go to private purchase contract.
You as the client would then cover the cost of flights from the UK to Malaga and would also need to pay for a couple of nights accom which lets face it wouldnt be a lot (normally Thursday - Saturday) If you chose to do this with www.propertyshowrooms.com we would then cover the cost of your flight by private jet with property logic from Malaga to Oujda. We would then tour you around La Saidia, go for some lunch and then fly back to Malaga the same day.
The worst case scenario is that you reserve a property, come over to have a look and then say " andy its not for me" we would then get you your reservation deposit back........but the main thing is you would have seen it.

With superior it is slightly different as they say that the client pays for the flights from the UK to Malaga and also from Malaga to Melia with Superior picking up the bill for the accom. If you didnt want to go ahead then superior would charge a £100 admin fee from your reservation deposit.......but again at least you would have seen it.

Both companies take you into Fadesa´s office to see the 2 and 3 bed apartments so either way you will have a better idea of what is all about.

I always say to people that you can to as much research as you want at exhibitions or on the internet but there is nothing better than standing on the development yourself. For the amount of money that you are looking to invest and in the grander scheme of things to pay for a couple of flights and some accomodation and have the experience of seeing it is worth every penny.


Hi Andy

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not sure that I was clear enough in my previous post - if the management company are going to be offering 3% yield (I know that this is not set in stone), how does this translate to the £1000 to £2000 per week that Dog box mentions?

Just to fill you in, I am from the UK and am looking to purchase a coastal property in Morocco that I can use 2/3 weekends per year and rent out as much as possible for the rest of the year. I am considering both the Saidia project and the Port Lixus project as well as any possible Emaar resort.

#110 dogbox

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 01:58 PM

Hi Andy

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not sure that I was clear enough in my previous post - if the management company are going to be offering 3% yield (I know that this is not set in stone), how does this translate to the £1000 to £2000 per week that Dog box mentions?

Just to fill you in, I am from the UK and am looking to purchase a coastal property in Morocco that I can use 2/3 weekends per year and rent out as much as possible for the rest of the year. I am considering both the Saidia project and the Port Lixus project as well as any possible Emaar resort.


If I were buying with my own tastes uppermost I would possibly go for Portlixus, however I have been told you get sand blasted on the beach!

In terms of investment however I preferred LJDF as Saidia should draw the winter crowds to a greater degree than say Portlixus due to extensive facilities, ie - people more likely to part with cash on a winter break knowing that if weather is poor they can still have a great time. Also Port Lixus property is quite a bit more expensive.

In terms of Emaar I like the look of Tinja, real class and understated but I suspect the prices will be pretty strong.

The real ace with Saidia for me is that the 8 international hotels plus 1000 seat conferance centre will act as a draw thus expanding exposure to the rented property considerably.

Depends what you are buying for I guess.
And God said unto Luke 'come forth and thee shall have eternal life', but Luke came fifth and won a toaster.

'My children are Christian' is like saying 'my children are Conservatives' - at least have the common decency to let the little blighters make up thier own minds

#111 andy welland

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 02:07 PM

Attached File  DSC01396.JPG   58.08KB   92 downloadsAttached File  DSC01395.JPG   57.71KB   110 downloadsAttached File  DSC01388.JPG   69.5KB   114 downloads

Hi Andy

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not sure that I was clear enough in my previous post - if the management company are going to be offering 3% yield (I know that this is not set in stone), how does this translate to the £1000 to £2000 per week that Dog box mentions?

Just to fill you in, I am from the UK and am looking to purchase a coastal property in Morocco that I can use 2/3 weekends per year and rent out as much as possible for the rest of the year. I am considering both the Saidia project and the Port Lixus project as well as any possible Emaar resort.


You are talking about Fadesa who are offering a Gaurenteed rental scheme which is based on a % of the purchase price.

As an example lets just say the property is worth 150,000€ and you were getting a rental return of 3% for the first year you would expect to get back before any deductions about 4500€. This money would then be used to help pay off your mortgage. The reason that it is low is because that it Gaurenteed. You may find that your property only has clients in it 10 weeks of the year and that the company charged £1000 a week but you would still get your 3% of the purchase price.

It is what i would regard as low risk. Sometimes the people that are buying are not interested in making a profit from the rental as long as it is covering the costs of the property, they are more concerned with the capital growth as this is the larger sum of money that interests them.

What i think Dog Box is refering to is private rentals or using the services of a rental management company that Jardin de Fleur then get in place. This would not be gaurenteed but has the potential to offer higher returns. He would still have to pay out a fee to the management company. But lets just say he only manages to rent it out for 2 weeks of the year at £1500 per week he would still have to payout a % to the rental management company and walk away with less than Fadesa are offering but that is a higher risk. If things go really well for him he might get 20 weeks and walk away with a nice tidy little profit and still be able to use it on the weeks that it wasnt rented out. This option is more flexible, has higher returns but also comes with a higher risk.

Normally with Gaurenteed Rental schemes it can be that you have limited use on your property or sometimes have to pay to use it....check out the contract with a lawyer before signing to anything.

Also with regards to Port - Lixus and Eemar as everyone seems to be talking about i have got one of our guys in contact with both of these companies and will post any news that i get ASAP. Our guy was stood on the plot of Port - Lixus last week and said it is stunning, at the moment they are in the process of building the show homes and apart from that there are a couple of porta cabins( pictures attached )

Sorry they are not the best

Hope this is of some help

Edited by andy welland, 13 June 2006 - 02:09 PM.


#112 fabs35

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 02:54 PM

Attached File  DSC01396.JPG   58.08KB   92 downloadsAttached File  DSC01395.JPG   57.71KB   110 downloadsAttached File  DSC01388.JPG   69.5KB   114 downloads

You are talking about Fadesa who are offering a Gaurenteed rental scheme which is based on a % of the purchase price.

As an example lets just say the property is worth 150,000€ and you were getting a rental return of 3% for the first year you would expect to get back before any deductions about 4500€. This money would then be used to help pay off your mortgage. The reason that it is low is because that it Gaurenteed. You may find that your property only has clients in it 10 weeks of the year and that the company charged £1000 a week but you would still get your 3% of the purchase price.

It is what i would regard as low risk. Sometimes the people that are buying are not interested in making a profit from the rental as long as it is covering the costs of the property, they are more concerned with the capital growth as this is the larger sum of money that interests them.

What i think Dog Box is refering to is private rentals or using the services of a rental management company that Jardin de Fleur then get in place. This would not be gaurenteed but has the potential to offer higher returns. He would still have to pay out a fee to the management company. But lets just say he only manages to rent it out for 2 weeks of the year at £1500 per week he would still have to payout a % to the rental management company and walk away with less than Fadesa are offering but that is a higher risk. If things go really well for him he might get 20 weeks and walk away with a nice tidy little profit and still be able to use it on the weeks that it wasnt rented out. This option is more flexible, has higher returns but also comes with a higher risk.

Normally with Gaurenteed Rental schemes it can be that you have limited use on your property or sometimes have to pay to use it....check out the contract with a lawyer before signing to anything.

Also with regards to Port - Lixus and Eemar as everyone seems to be talking about i have got one of our guys in contact with both of these companies and will post any news that i get ASAP. Our guy was stood on the plot of Port - Lixus last week and said it is stunning, at the moment they are in the process of building the show homes and apart from that there are a couple of porta cabins( pictures attached )

Sorry they are not the best

Hope this is of some help


Hi Andy

Thank you for the pictures!

Apologies - I didn't realise that Jardin de Fleur allow private rentals. I had assumed that you could only have rental income through the guaranteed rental scheme.

I look forward to hearing more on the Port Lixus and Emaar projects. Once there is more onfo available, I'll get in touch with you for some details.

Thanks again!

#113 The Soup Dragon

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 04:53 PM

Andy - It is my understanding that much of the land round Saidia development is owned by the government and that certainly to the westermost side the area is protected and designated as a bird sanctuary. Is this your understanding? I realise that land use can change, just looking to check that information I've been given is correct.

DogBox et all. I've looked at a few sites to get feel for likely rentals and as Andy has mentioned there isn't a lot that is directly comparable. (Only now are large developments of Saidia's quality being constructed.) My gut feel is that rental will be near the £1k a week mark. Here's one site that has plenty of quality villas and riads for rental: http://www.homeliday...morocco_r11.asp

#114 dogbox

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 05:00 PM

Andy - It is my understanding that much of the land round Saidia development is owned by the government and that certainly to the westermost side the area is protected and designated as a bird sanctuary. Is this your understanding? I realise that land use can change, just looking to check that information I've been given is correct.

DogBox et all. I've looked at a few sites to get feel for likely rentals and as Andy has mentioned there isn't a lot that is directly comparable. (Only now are large developments of Saidia's quality being constructed.) My gut feel is that rental will be near the £1k a week mark. Here's one site that has plenty of quality villas and riads for rental: http://www.homeliday...morocco_r11.asp


2 more rental sites:

www.fleewinter.co.uk
www.villasofmorocco.com

THE STARTING RENT IS 3500EUROS PER WEEK low season on villasofmorocco.

I have read on many occasions that the adjacent land is a nature reserve. Also some islands just off the beach are reserves.

Edited by dogbox, 13 June 2006 - 05:03 PM.

And God said unto Luke 'come forth and thee shall have eternal life', but Luke came fifth and won a toaster.

'My children are Christian' is like saying 'my children are Conservatives' - at least have the common decency to let the little blighters make up thier own minds

#115 andy welland

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 05:02 PM

[quote name='The Soup Dragon' date='Jun 13 2006, 04:53 PM' post='399110']
Andy - It is my understanding that much of the land round Saidia development is owned by the government and that certainly to the westermost side the area is protected and designated as a bird sanctuary. Is this your understanding? I realise that land use can change, just looking to check that information I've been given is correct.


Hi Soup Dragon,

From the way that it has been explained to me the information that you have been given is the same as i have been told. I am sure you would also have heard that they cannot build anything either in or around the Saidia project for 15 years after the project is completed. I do agree with you that the use of land can change.......just look at the Costa del Sol.

#116 andy welland

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 05:21 PM

Hi Andy

Thank you for the pictures!

Apologies - I didn't realise that Jardin de Fleur allow private rentals. I had assumed that you could only have rental income through the guaranteed rental scheme.

I look forward to hearing more on the Port Lixus and Emaar projects. Once there is more onfo available, I'll get in touch with you for some details.

Thanks again!



Hi Fabs,

Bit of news on Port - Lixus for everyone but it certainly wasnt what i was expecting.

Please see notes from an email just sent to me.

1st phase delayed...will be released in June...villas starting at at least 400.000 Euros...350m2 built on plot with pool of 1.200m2.

Is this what we were expecting?????

Andy

#117 Radio

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 06:29 PM

In this week's Sunday Times:

"One of Britain's most senior military strategists has warned that western civilisation faces a threat on a par with the Barbarian invasions that destroyed the Roman empire.....
Rear Admiral Chris Parry said......north African pirates could be attacking yachts and beaches in the Mediterranean within ten years........
The direct effects of third world instability will soon lick at the edges of the western world as pirate gangs mount smash-and-grab raids on holidaymakers".

(Extracted from a presentation given at the United Services Institute).

Could be the pirates might start closer to home, looting the expensive villas of rich infidels.

Sounds like scaremongering, but we live in a very unstable world. 5 star luxury resorts might look a tempting target to people living in third world poverty.

#118 fabs35

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 11:23 AM

Wow......I was expecting to pay a premium but wasn't expecting €400k - assuming they are of a similar spec to the Saidia villas. Hopefully they will have reasonably priced appartments.

Once again, please let me know as soon as you hear anything.

Thanks.

#119 HOF

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 11:34 AM

Seems cheap, but what impresses me about Morocco is the combination of fantastic beaches, 3 hour flights and a Government heel bent on putting everything in place to ensure it becomes a world class tourism market, for example no income Tax on rents coupled with huge infrastructure investment to include a tunnel being built between Gibralter and Tangier.
Also many UK agents are selling the place which is a sure sign of market momentum.

To really make a decent investment I suggest the Mediterrania Saidia site. It offers total security and luxury, unlike the other smaller out on a limb sites. This will be crucial to rental markets. You can buy a marina berth for £10000 on a 60 year lease, I suspect the rental return on this alone will be significant.

Gucci, Armani and Budha Bars have all aquired commercial premisses on this site - that in itself will create hype and expectation. There are appartments from about £70000, these will become golddust within 5 years.


Hi Dogbox

You can no longer buy a marina berth for £10,000 I just got the latest prices and they are €71,339.45 plus 20% tax on top of that for an 18m berth which is not so cheap after all.

Pity, I would have taken one for £10,000 but at £48,000 its like buying another property.

#120 andy welland

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 11:39 AM

Wow......I was expecting to pay a premium but wasn't expecting €400k - assuming they are of a similar spec to the Saidia villas. Hopefully they will have reasonably priced appartments.

Once again, please let me know as soon as you hear anything.

Thanks.



Hi Fabs,

As an example the JDF villas are starting at 260,000€ for a villa that is 145sqm on a plot of about 350 - 450sqm and they are about to release 24 Villas at 350 - 400sqm on plots of 1000sqm + for 750,000€

Even if you took the plot away on both and just looked at the price per sqm on living area alone then Saidia is about an average of 1834.05€ per sqm compared to 1000€ per sqm in Port - Lixus.

Hopefully this same kind of figure would be applicable to the apartments. I have just bashed out some figures on my calculator and came up with about £78,000 for an apartment of the same sqm as Jardin de Fleur.

Please bare in mind this is only guess work and dont take this figure to be true.




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