Trampa501 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm often bemused to see posters describe the UK as a hellhole. Ok, so prices are absurd, and the corporates dictate our economic life. But hellhole? Sorry, even in the biggest cities we have great parks, museums etc. The climate is actually another plus, rarely too hot, manageable in winter. Not really that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm often bemused to see posters describe the UK as a hellhole. Ok, so prices are absurd, and the corporates dictate our economic life. But hellhole? Sorry, even in the biggest cities we have great parks, museums etc. The climate is actually another plus, rarely too hot, manageable in winter. Not really that bad? you are right, it could be a fantastic place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I guess the thing that's surprising is that despite the fact that the conditions in the UK are pretty benign - no war, no famine, no pestilence etc - we are struggling to get the basics even vaguely right. We already have the worst housing stock in Western Europe and the new stuff we are throwing up is even lower quality. The average British diet is appalling and is causing serious health problems. Many households are working too much and many don't have enough work, and both of these conditions have negative effects on family and community life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Given that we live on a planet of 9 billion competing and often violent humans and of hugely variable temperatures, food and resource production, the UK is pretty close to as good as it gets. It's climatically benign, productive and it's an island. Government-wise, it's fine as well - if you live under the radar and between the cracks. I can get as outraged as the next man about the 1984-style police state; but, you know, that's a philosophical outrage - in practice it doesn't effect me. Much as I hate, hate, hate tax - it isn't too bad. There's no wealth tax and, Mrs JTB and I can live on less than £20k pa so won't even pay income tax one day. In fact we could live off £80k pa or more at a v low tax rate from unwrapped divi income and ISA-wrapped misc income. Even spending taxes are reduceable - brew your own, ride a bike, etc etc etc. And, for those who need it, there is work around and employers aren't as scared off employing people as they are in, say, France. Or, if you want work but not employment then it's quite possible to set up on your own. Nope. Not much to grumble about here in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Apple Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 My mum once told me of a comment one of her friends made about living in a small cluster of new houses, she said: "Its like hell on earth". Apparently a new family had moved in, and the cause of her distress was a teenager with a guitar (actually he wasn't bad, you could hear him practicing from the beer garden). I replied that maybe a stint in Baghdad or Somalia would help put things in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm often bemused to see posters describe the UK as a hellhole. Ok, so prices are absurd, and the corporates dictate our economic life. But hellhole? Sorry, even in the biggest cities we have great parks, museums etc. The climate is actually another plus, rarely too hot, manageable in winter. Not really that bad? I'm probably guilty of this but I agree, it's not a hell hole when it comes to the general environment. If you go to somewhere like India you will see what a hell hole environment can be, However, when it comes to the level of state control, the the level of taxation, the level of blatant corruption here in the UK, in that context, it's a hell hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I can see how this thread is going to go. People in a good economic position are going to say the UK is fine. People in a not-so-good economic position are going to say it isn't. For bonus points we might get some examples of people in good economic positions telling people in not-so-good economic positions to be grateful they aren't dying of starvation in Ethiopia etc. Edited July 27, 2014 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 My mum once told me of a comment one of her friends made about living in a small cluster of new houses, she said: "Its like hell on earth". Apparently a new family had moved in, and the cause of her distress was a teenager with a guitar (actually he wasn't bad, you could hear him practicing from the beer garden). I replied that maybe a stint in Baghdad or Somalia would help put things in perspective. Yes, I have often thought of suggesting similar. You wouldn't even need to go to a war zone - a trip around the sprawling slums of Jakarta or Mumbai would do very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I can see how this thread is going to go. People in a good economic position are going to say the UK is fine. People in a not-so-good economic position are going to say it isn't.Always makes me chuckle when I read about posters with the means to buy a house saying they could live on a guinea a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Most of those other places can't print money to make themselves more wealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I think the UK would be a better place if everyone who chases money realised you can get a better feeling from buying a homeless person a sandwich from a high street Cafe than you will ever get from buying an item for yourself from the shop Accessorize next door. I do neither very often. Edited July 27, 2014 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm probably guilty of this but I agree, it's not a hell hole when it comes to the general environment. If you go to somewhere like India you will see what a hell hole environment can be, However, when it comes to the level of state control, the the level of taxation, the level of blatant corruption here in the UK, in that context, it's a hell hole. If you think corruption is bad here... A few days ago we met some Indian friends who live in Mumbai - we see them every summer and they are always in despair about the levels of corruption, constantly getting worse. You have to grease palms for so many things we could not imagine here. I well remember being naively shocked years ago when an Indian colleague in Muscat where we were living, told me that he had to send some money to his wife back home for some emergency or other. He would have to send a fair bit extra, since the person dishing it out at the other end at the bank or money transfer place would need his palm greased before handing it over. Surely not! I said. Oh, yes, he shrugged - that's how it is back home. I did ask the friends once how the politicians get elected, if they are so blatantly corrupt. The woman said it was pretty simple really - they go round the appalling slums promising e.g. to supply electricity, and once elected they probably will actually do it up to a point. So the mass of poor people go on voting for them - they don't much care about higher levels of corruption involving millions or billions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 If you think corruption is bad here... A few days ago we met some Indian friends who live in Mumbai - we see them every summer and they are always in despair about the levels of corruption, constantly getting worse. You have to grease palms for so many things we could not imagine here. I well remember being naively shocked years ago when an Indian colleague in Muscat where we were living, told me that he had to send some money to his wife back home for some emergency or other. He would have to send a fair bit extra, since the person dishing it out at the other end at the bank or money transfer place would need his palm greased before handing it over. Surely not! I said. Oh, yes, he shrugged - that's how it is back home. I did ask the friends once how the politicians get elected, if they are so blatantly corrupt. The woman said it was pretty simple really - they go round the appalling slums promising e.g. to supply electricity, and once elected they probably will actually do it up to a point. So the mass of poor people go on voting for them - they don't much care about higher levels of corruption involving millions or billions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustYield Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 How is this even a thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 If you think corruption is bad here... A few days ago we met some Indian friends who live in Mumbai - we see them every summer and they are always in despair about the levels of corruption, constantly getting worse. You have to grease palms for so many things we could not imagine here. I well remember being naively shocked years ago when an Indian colleague in Muscat where we were living, told me that he had to send some money to his wife back home for some emergency or other. He would have to send a fair bit extra, since the person dishing it out at the other end at the bank or money transfer place would need his palm greased before handing it over. Surely not! I said. Oh, yes, he shrugged - that's how it is back home. I did ask the friends once how the politicians get elected, if they are so blatantly corrupt. The woman said it was pretty simple really - they go round the appalling slums promising e.g. to supply electricity, and once elected they probably will actually do it up to a point. So the mass of poor people go on voting for them - they don't much care about higher levels of corruption involving millions or billions. I can imagine. The Indian's inherited the English method of governance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm often bemused to see posters describe the UK as a hellhole. Ok, so prices are absurd, and the corporates dictate our economic life. But hellhole? Sorry, even in the biggest cities we have great parks, museums etc. The climate is actually another plus, rarely too hot, manageable in winter. Not really that bad? Manageable climate in winter? Well maybe if you don't live in Somerset, Dawlish, the Thames valley or Aberystwyth or one of the places that will get a battering next winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 If you think corruption is bad here... A few days ago we met some Indian friends who live in Mumbai - we see them every summer and they are always in despair about the levels of corruption, constantly getting worse. You have to grease palms for so many things we could not imagine here. I well remember being naively shocked years ago when an Indian colleague in Muscat where we were living, told me that he had to send some money to his wife back home for some emergency or other. He would have to send a fair bit extra, since the person dishing it out at the other end at the bank or money transfer place would need his palm greased before handing it over. Surely not! I said. Oh, yes, he shrugged - that's how it is back home. I did ask the friends once how the politicians get elected, if they are so blatantly corrupt. The woman said it was pretty simple really - they go round the appalling slums promising e.g. to supply electricity, and once elected they probably will actually do it up to a point. So the mass of poor people go on voting for them - they don't much care about higher levels of corruption involving millions or billions. +100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I can imagine. The Indian's inherited the English method of governance What planet do you live on? Have you ever had to bribe the Council to collect your rubbish or admit your children to a state school? Seriously I do wonder if some people on this site have ever got beyond Dover.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Always makes me chuckle when I read about posters with the means to buy a house saying they could live on a guinea a day. A guinea was around 8.5g of gold, IIRC. About £215 today. Not so tough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) What planet do you live on? Have you ever had to bribe the Council to collect your rubbish or admit your children to a state school? Seriously I do wonder if some people on this site have ever got beyond Dover.... Well, it depends on how you see corruption. I'm forced to pay £1800 in local tax a year to have my bins collect, which the council tell me costs them about £30 per year. I then have to pay 60% of my income in taxes aportion of which is used so children can go to school, If I want them to go to a "decent" school I have to £400K for a shoe box house to live near a school just so they can get in. If I dont pay tyhe taxes I am jailed. If I take my child out of school to go on holiday they fine me, even though I am paying for the service. Corruption comes in many forms. Do you not actually believe there are MPs/council officials that do actually take back handers in the UK too ? It's the english way: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/sarah-ferguson-caught-in-750k-bribery-scandal-2010245 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parliamentary_expenses_scandal If your rich you can even buy time with the British PM. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28443588 For the record, I've been round india and use to frequently go to Bangalore. I've seen most of the world apart from south America. Seriously I do wonder if some people on this site have ever look past the end of their nose got beyond Dover.... Edited July 27, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 What planet do you live on? Have you ever had to bribe the Council to collect your rubbish or admit your children to a state school? Seriously I do wonder if some people on this site have ever got beyond Dover.... Me too. But it's no use telling them - they don't want to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisina Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 What planet do you live on? Have you ever had to bribe the Council to collect your rubbish or admit your children to a state school? Seriously I do wonder if some people on this site have ever got beyond Dover.... Oh Dear Someone feeling superior?Travel does not always broaden the mind yu know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I can see how this thread is going to go. People in a good economic position are going to say the UK is fine. People in a not-so-good economic position are going to say it isn't.For bonus points we might get some examples of people in good economic positions telling people in not-so-good economic positions to be grateful they aren't dying of starvation in Ethiopia etc.Don't think it's going to go like that. More like if you think the UK is a hell hole open a newspaper other than the wail or t*** on page 3, view a late night grown up documentary or occasionally tune into something other than London Cab radio or talk shite sport and thank your lucky stars you have UK residency It's got nothing to do with economic status current , previous or future on a personal basis. Edited July 27, 2014 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I can see how this thread is going to go. People in a good economic position are going to say the UK is fine. People in a not-so-good economic position are going to say it isn't. For bonus points we might get some examples of people in good economic positions telling people in not-so-good economic positions to be grateful they aren't dying of starvation in Ethiopia etc. Of course, our own positions and experience will colour our views - we are (mostly) human, after all. But I've been poor in the UK in the past - and, having seen abroad, thank my lucky stars that I was poor in the UK not somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Given that we live on a planet of 9 billion competing and often violent humans and of hugely variable temperatures, food and resource production, the UK is pretty close to as good as it gets. It's climatically benign, productive and it's an island. Government-wise, it's fine as well - if you live under the radar and between the cracks. I can get as outraged as the next man about the 1984-style police state; but, you know, that's a philosophical outrage - in practice it doesn't effect me. Much as I hate, hate, hate tax - it isn't too bad. There's no wealth tax and, Mrs JTB and I can live on less than £20k pa so won't even pay income tax one day. In fact we could live off £80k pa or more at a v low tax rate from unwrapped divi income and ISA-wrapped misc income. Even spending taxes are reduceable - brew your own, ride a bike, etc etc etc. And, for those who need it, there is work around and employers aren't as scared off employing people as they are in, say, France. Or, if you want work but not employment then it's quite possible to set up on your own. Nope. Not much to grumble about here in the UK. Will you please stop talking sense. This isn't what OT is all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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