[OnlyMe]

Must have been a mad rush to commit to more windfarms before this study came out - offshore will be a pig to maintain compared to onshore.

Wind farm study ‘demonstrates economic flaws’
http://www.skegnesss...flaws-1-4650763

Published on Sunday 6 January 2013 14:56

New evidence demonstrating the economic impracticality of onshore turbines confirms what a ‘dreadful investment’ wind energy has been, local opponents to the technology claim.

A study published recently by the Renewable Energy Foundation claims a turbine’s economic life-span is only 10 to 15 years rather than the 20 to 25 years previously forecasted by the industry and used for government projections.

The decline in performance, derived from ‘rigorous statistical analysis’ of wind farms in the UK and Denmark, would have serious consequences for carbon reduction estimates, which had been based on the previous turbine life-span.

[TheBigBean]

The subsidies from the government are for the generation of electricity not the equipment itself i.e. if they stop working there is no tariff. If they do not last as long as expected then it is the investors who will lose their money - doubtlessly few tears will be shed for them from the anti-wind brigade.

[OnlyMe]

TheBigBean, on 06 January 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

The subsidies from the government are for the generation of electricity not the equipment itself i.e. if they stop working there is no tariff. If they do not last as long as expected then it is the investors who will lose their money - doubtlessly few tears will be shed for them from the anti-wind brigade.

The money will be provided up front, by us, so when non-delivery of energy 15-20 years down the line occurs it will be too late and the money gone.

http://www.telegraph...178-a-year.html

Wind farms to increase energy bills by £178 a year
Energy bills are poised to rise by up to £178 a year under a deal struck between George Osborne and the Liberal Democrats to pay for a series of wind farms and nuclear power stations.
Wind farm forced to close after complaints over the noise
Green policies have added to the increasing costs of gas and electricity. Photo: ALAMY
Rowena Mason

By Rowena Mason

9:55PM GMT 22 Nov 2012

Comments872 Comments

Under the biggest reforms to the energy market in decades, households and businesses will have to pay £7.6billion a year towards the cost of building “greener” power stations by 2020.

[byron78]

Given that the study was conducted anonymously (without any of the data being released into the public domain) by a bloke whose previously published titles include ‘The myth of green jobs’ and ‘Why wind energy is so expensive’ I'm going to file this report under "probably not very impartial."

Don't get me wrong I'm not defending wind energy (I'm certainly not an advocate).

I don't really know why you'd need to "study" how long a wind turbine lasts though... surely you can just go and have a look at the condition of some of the Danish ones (they have after all had them in some capacity for 30+ years).

[TheBigBean]

The money is provided up front by investors. They then receive money from "us" for as long energy is generated. No generation, no money from "us" to the investors. I'm happy to educate and explain, but I don't have the energy to argue.

[byron78]

TheBigBean, on 06 January 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

The money is provided up front by investors. They then receive money from "us" for as long energy is generated. No generation, no money from "us" to the investors. I'm happy to educate and explain, but I don't have the energy to argue.

That's my understanding of how it works as well - to be honest if you've some experience of this and can be bothered to explain I for one would be grateful.

[OnlyMe]

byron78, on 06 January 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

That's my understanding of how it works as well - to be honest if you've some experience of this and can be bothered to explain I for one would be grateful.

When push comes to shove we all know that money will be found (taken) to spare embarrassment.

[alexw]

byron78, on 06 January 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Given that the study was conducted anonymously (without any of the data being released into the public domain) by a bloke whose previously published titles include ‘The myth of green jobs’ and ‘Why wind energy is so expensive’ I'm going to file this report under "probably not very impartial."

Don't get me wrong I'm not defending wind energy (I'm certainly not an advocate).

I don't really know why you'd need to "study" how long a wind turbine lasts though... surely you can just go and have a look at the condition of some of the Danish ones (they have after all had them in some capacity for 30+ years).

[Goat]

byron78, on 06 January 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Given that the study was conducted anonymously (without any of the data being released into the public domain) ..... I'm going to file this report under "probably not very impartial."

The only problem is that a quick google brings up all of the information that you say is not published. Analysis of Wind Farm Performance in UK and Denmark

[erranta]

TheBigBean, on 06 January 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

The money is provided up front by investors. They then receive money from "us" for as long energy is generated. No generation, no money from "us" to the investors. I'm happy to educate and explain, but I don't have the energy to argue.

They get Money from us plus Guaranteed subsidies for life of project.
They get paid when turbines are not turning and when turbines are switched off cos local grids can't take the overload.

Now they are expected to give peak wattage for only 10-15 years instead of 25
A complete fekkin con job - pushing energy bills through the roof


28 Feb 2011 – Wind turbines are so expensive that Holland recently became the first country in Europe to abandon its EU renewable energy target, ...

(Reuters) - When the Netherlands built its first sea-based wind turbines in 2006, they were seen as symbols of a greener future.

Towering over the waves of the North Sea like an army of giants, blades whipping through the wind, the turbines were the country's best hope to curb carbon emissions and meet growing demand for electricity.

The 36 turbines -- each one the height of a 30-storey building -- produce enough electricity to meet the needs of more than 100,000 households each year.

But five years later the green future looks a long way off. Faced with the need to cut its budget deficit, the Dutch government says offshore wind power is far too expensive and that it cannot afford to subsidize the entire cost of 18 cents per kilowatt hour -- some 4.5 billion euros last year.

The government now plans to transfer the financial burden to households and industrial consumers in order to secure the funds for wind power and try to attract private sector investment.

It will start billing consumers and companies in January 2013 and simultaneously launch a system under which investors will be able to apply to participate in renewable energy projects.

But the new billing system will reap only a third of what was previously available to the industry in subsidies -- the government forecasts 1.5 billion euros every year -- while the pricing scale of the investment plan makes it more likely that interested parties will choose less expensive technologies than wind.

The outlook for Dutch wind projects seems bleak.

9/12/10 - Denmark to abandon future onshore wind farms in the country

This post has been edited by erranta: 07 January 2013 - 06:47 AM

[BNS]

Meanwhile in China.

http://www.telegraph...om-thorium.html

21 conventional nuclear power plants being built 51 being started this year and 120 new plants and additional reactors put online at existing facilities.