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The Uk Will Be Ok


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#1 RedRum

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

I've lived and worked abroad and but still like it here. My parents moved to the UK from more troubled lands in the 1950s and think it's paradise.

There are problems, both immediate and long-term, but I'm still optimistic.

Here are a few things that I think we have going for us:

-We have lots of arable land and farming expertise. We could import less if we needed to
-Plenty of fish and seafood (albeit it not every species these days), especially if fishing rights were enforced
-Good climate and generally plenty of water
-We still have some gas and oil, also plenty of coal. Spare land could be used for biomass production
-We have lots of untapped renewable energy sources
-We're an island - our borders could be defended
-We have our own currency
-We're still a major exporter and still have specialist manufacturing expertise that doesn't exist in China
-We have some of the best universities in the world
-We remain a major global finance centre; it's all gone wrong, but surely it's better for that concentration of energy and talent to be tamed and based here than abroad?
-Ties with the US, another country with structural problems but still a major superpower
-A long history of stability and tolerance

I think we have a painful transition process ahead of us, but will emerge stronger and better. This will involve a reduction in living standards and less 'free' stuff, but is that a bad thing?

Does anybody else like it here?


-

#2 the_duke_of_hazzard_left

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:01 PM

I've lived abroad. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else than the UK.

Well, London specifically. I wouldn't want to live in Hull either.

I'd also live in New York. That's about it really.

#3 JohnLennon

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:31 PM

Will it fvck

LABOUR
UNFUNDED BENEFITS
EU MEMBERSHIP
DWINDLING OIL RESERVES
BANKS
CHAV MENTALITY
THE BBC
IMMIGRATION


CAN I MENTION LABOUR TWICE

#4 Dorkins

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:38 PM

You say "we" a lot, but do you personally own or have access to any of the capital you just mentioned? If not, this creates an opportunity for somebody to establish a system in which you end up paying a lot for the use of capital which is not actually that scarce. If you don't like that system you could try to use your political power to get it removed, but that relies on having a political system which is responsive to your wishes. Does the UK have that?

#5 rantnrave

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:33 PM

Good article in Time magazine a couple of weeks' back, which undermined the claim that the West appears to be falling behind the emerging economies. Essentially it argued that the credit expansion of the last decade lifted a lot of export-led emerging economies to an extent that their underlying developmental problems could be swept under the carpet. As the West undergoes the correction it obviously needs, growth rates in those economies are dwindling and problems such as cronyism, corruption, bureaucracy and more are having as big a restrictive impact now as they did before the last decade. Those issues in other countries that kept the West competitive have not been addressed whatsoever.

I am confident for the UK in the long-run (not the short or, to a lesser extent, the medium) though. On the whole, we have an educational level that most of the rest of the word would love to have. In the next decade or so, the reins of power will start passing down to members of the priced-out generation too. I hope we don't have to wait that long, but it's a get out of jail card that might at least help those in their early 20s now.

It's amazing how bleak situations can turn around. Compare public sentiment in the early 80s to the late 80s, ditto for the early and late 90s. This is a particularly long tunnel we're going through (and totally brought upon ourselves), but there is light at the end of it. We just can't see it yet.

#6 JohnLennon

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 04:47 PM

if the future is so rosy why this then?

Posted Image

Doesn't it reek a bit of , oh sh1t there is no house price growth, no more loans to be borrowed, no more manufacturing industry, no innovation, no more growth other than that from money printing, no savings to pay the boomers pensions, no savings to pay the scroungers benefits, no capital in any of the banks

Surely they didn't just reduce interest rates to zero, Japan deflation style for a laugh?

This is the end of fiat

#7 swissy_fit

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 05:51 PM

I've lived and worked abroad and but still like it here. My parents moved to the UK from more troubled lands in the 1950s and think it's paradise.

There are problems, both immediate and long-term, but I'm still optimistic.

Here are a few things that I think we have going for us:

-We have lots of arable land and farming expertise. We could import less if we needed to
-Plenty of fish and seafood (albeit it not every species these days), especially if fishing rights were enforced
-Good climate and generally plenty of water
-We still have some gas and oil, also plenty of coal. Spare land could be used for biomass production
-We have lots of untapped renewable energy sources
-We're an island - our borders could be defended
-We have our own currency
-We're still a major exporter and still have specialist manufacturing expertise that doesn't exist in China
-We have some of the best universities in the world
-We remain a major global finance centre; it's all gone wrong, but surely it's better for that concentration of energy and talent to be tamed and based here than abroad?
-Ties with the US, another country with structural problems but still a major superpower
-A long history of stability and tolerance

I think we have a painful transition process ahead of us, but will emerge stronger and better. This will involve a reduction in living standards and less 'free' stuff, but is that a bad thing?

Does anybody else like it here?
-

Yes it's lovely, but as another poster pointed out, the thieves and shysters(Politicians and bankers) have control and are using their poor counterparts (benefits and poorly-educated classes) to retain power. Until that changes, the UK will continue to go downhill.
It's a good country to be rich in, especially London IMO.
If you want to know what the next political move will be, ask yourself what will suit the banks, and behold, the answer will come to you.

The Credit Crunch :
The logical financial outcome is deflation. The logical political outcome is inflation. (Thanks to Injin 21st Sept 2008)

#8 blackgoose

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

I've lived and worked abroad and but still like it here. My parents moved to the UK from more troubled lands in the 1950s and think it's paradise.

There are problems, both immediate and long-term, but I'm still optimistic.

Here are a few things that I think we have going for us:

-We have lots of arable land and farming expertise. We could import less if we needed to
-Plenty of fish and seafood (albeit it not every species these days), especially if fishing rights were enforced
-Good climate and generally plenty of water
-We still have some gas and oil, also plenty of coal. Spare land could be used for biomass production
-We have lots of untapped renewable energy sources
-We're an island - our borders could be defended
-We have our own currency
-We're still a major exporter and still have specialist manufacturing expertise that doesn't exist in China
-We have some of the best universities in the world
-We remain a major global finance centre; it's all gone wrong, but surely it's better for that concentration of energy and talent to be tamed and based here than abroad?
-Ties with the US, another country with structural problems but still a major superpower
-A long history of stability and tolerance

I think we have a painful transition process ahead of us, but will emerge stronger and better. This will involve a reduction in living standards and less 'free' stuff, but is that a bad thing?

Does anybody else like it here?
-


Scotland might leave. That would leave the UK and especially England with one of the highest population densities in the world, meaning that farmland per person is not very high. Similarly, Scotland would take with it much of the fisheries, oil, gas and coal and renewable energy.
Being an island doesnt make it much easier to defend borders anymore - military technology has moved on.
China is graduating so many graduates who have studied all of their lives 60+ hours a week - it will not be long before they take over in specialist manufacturing.
We have 2 some great universities that international academics flock to, but we also have lots of poor universities stuffed with students who are studying useless things and getting drunk a lot.
The days of US looking fondly to the UK are coming to an end. Obama is the first of a new breed of politician who has a more diverse background and looks more to the world stage than just the UK.

Having said that - I am optimistic about the future. I believe that technological progress will be so great that the quality of life will increase dramatically for everyone in the world. Our relative position in the world will continue to decline, but individual quality of life will be better.

#9 okaycuckoo

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:59 PM

-We remain a major global finance centre; it's all gone wrong, but surely it's better for that concentration of energy and talent to be tamed and based here than abroad?

All fair points except that one.

London is a major global finance centre because it invites crooks from across the globe. It should pay a premium for using our currency and declare independence, like Monaco.

Ultimately the globe has a big problem with the City - the JPM losses are the latest in a long line permitted by wild-west regulation.

I say build a big wall around it and make Snake Plissken the mayor.

#10 Superted187

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:27 AM

It costs £40 for a return train ticket that goes 35 miles. This kind of infrastructural issue won't help us

#11 DeepLurker

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:29 AM

On the whole, we have an educational level that most of the rest of the word would love to have.

Typos rear their ugly little heads at the worst possible moment, don't they? ;)
Food, shelter; both are basic necessities of life.
If you call out for cheaper food, you are a saint.
If you call out for cheaper shelter, you are ostracised, ridiculed, even your partners and family feel slightly ashamed of you.

#12 Democorruptcy

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

I've lived and worked abroad and but still like it here. My parents moved to the UK from more troubled lands in the 1950s and think it's paradise.

There are problems, both immediate and long-term, but I'm still optimistic.

Here are a few things that I think we have going for us:

-We have lots of arable land and farming expertise. We could import less if we needed to (How can we import less when the population is growing?)
-Plenty of fish and seafood (albeit it not every species these days), especially if fishing rights were enforced (Why do we have fishing quotas then?)
-Good climate and generally plenty of water (Plenty of water? We had drought warnings all over the place until wettest April on record saved us. Larger population needs more water)
-We still have some gas and oil, also plenty of coal. Spare land could be used for biomass production (Some! Why do we import coal?)
-We have lots of untapped renewable energy sources (Scotland could do OK)
-We're an island - our borders could be defended (Do you mean you want a war? When we cannot afford defense and have aircfrat carriers with no planes. Our border is open to anyone in the EU see land and water)
-We have our own currency (So that we can have our wealth stolen by devaluation and be asset stripped by foreigners)
-We're still a major exporter and still have specialist manufacturing expertise that doesn't exist in China (Input costs too high and such as China are advancing)
-We have some of the best universities in the world (Pity they are too expensive for lots of our students so foreigners will take more places)
-We remain a major global finance centre; it's all gone wrong, but surely it's better for that concentration of energy and talent to be tamed and based here than abroad? (Finance is draining our economy. The larger it is the larger the drain)
-Ties with the US, another country with structural problems but still a major superpower (They shipped us lots of their subprime debt, they like us because we are a semi-criminal money laundering economy and they can use London to fleece the world)
-A long history of stability and tolerance (If all your points were right that might continue.... pity we are now a kleptocracy and eventually it will lead to overcrowding, racial tension and social unrest)

I think we have a painful transition process ahead of us, but will emerge stronger and better. This will involve a reduction in living standards and less 'free' stuff, but is that a bad thing?

Does anybody else like it here?


See above

Democorruptcy
If you say "Democorruptcy" quickly, it sounds a bit like "Democracy". In a "Democracy" people vote for politicians who represent their interests. In the UK's "Democorruptcy" people can only vote for expense fiddling thieving MPs who are in the hip pocket of big business and the finance sector.

Governbankment
A "Governbankment" is a Government that has no line between itself and banks. It diverts public money (our taxes) to private companies (banks). George Osborne's Help to Buy Bail Banks, will see our taxes go to bankers to cover their losses on mortgages that default. The UK's Governbankment will even pay bankers "reasonable repossession fees" on Help to Bail Bank mortgages that default.

The Funding for Lending Scheme (FLS) is stealing from savers to make them pay for crimes by bankers. Via lower interest on savings, all the bank fines for PPI, LIBOR, interest rates swaps, etc. are being paid by savers so that bankers can keep pocketing bonuses. 

"We need to make a really big change: from an economy built on debt to an economy built on savings" - David Camoron Jan 2009
"Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed" - George Osborne Jan 2009
- So what do Camoron & Osborne do? Print money and leave interest rates at 0.5% when inflation is over 5%

If it is asserted that civilization is a real advance in the condition of man -- and I think that it is, though only the wise improve their advantages -- it must be shown that it has produced better dwellings without making them more costly; and the cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
http://classiclit.ab...en-Part-2_4.htm

I want to tell you my secret now.... I see debt people


#13 Guest_JohnBrown_*

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:11 PM

All fair points except that one.

London is a major global finance centre because it invites crooks from across the globe. It should pay a premium for using our currency and declare independence, like Monaco.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

The medieval, unaccountable Corporation of London is ripe for protest

Working beyond the authority of parliament, the Corporation of London undermines all attempts to curb the excesses of finance

As Nicholas Shaxson explains in his fascinating book Treasure Islands, the Corporation exists outside many of the laws and democratic controls which govern the rest of the United Kingdom. The City of London is the only part of Britain over which parliament has no authority. In one respect at least the Corporation acts as the superior body: it imposes on the House of Commons a figure called the remembrancer: an official lobbyist who sits behind the Speaker's chair and ensures that, whatever our elected representatives might think, the City's rights and privileges are protected. The mayor of London's mandate stops at the boundaries of the Square Mile. There are, as if in a novel by China Miéville, two cities, one of which must unsee the other.

Several governments have tried to democratise the City of London but all, threatened by its financial might, have failed. As Clement Attlee lamented, "over and over again we have seen that there is in this country another power than that which has its seat at Westminster." The City has exploited this remarkable position to establish itself as a kind of offshore state, a secrecy jurisdiction which controls the network of tax havens housed in the UK's crown dependencies and overseas territories. This autonomous state within our borders is in a position to launder the ill-gotten cash of oligarchs, kleptocrats, gangsters and drug barons. As the French investigating magistrate Eva Joly remarked, it "has never transmitted even the smallest piece of usable evidence to a foreign magistrate". It deprives the United Kingdom and other nations of their rightful tax receipts.

It has also made the effective regulation of global finance almost impossible. Shaxson shows how the absence of proper regulation in London allowed American banks to evade the rules set by their own government. AIG's wild trading might have taken place in the US, but the unit responsible was regulated in the City. Lehman Brothers couldn't get legal approval for its off-balance sheet transactions in Wall Street, so it used a London law firm instead. No wonder priests are resigning over the plans to evict the campers. The Church of England is not just working with Mammon; it's colluding with Babylon.






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