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#1 zebbedee

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:29 PM

So a topic related to others here lately.
I received a phone call on Friday from someone claiming to be acting on behalf of my LA in relation to a survey for loft insulation. This was the first I'd heard of it so was a little taken by surprise and told them I would have to find out more before I could go further and told them to phone again yesterday. So emailed the LA who said these folk had been instructed by them. So yesterday they did phone at 4.30 expecting me to just roll over and let them come round last night . As I'm unemployed I said they could come round today, they then tried the 'ok we'll be round sometime', 'no give me a time or don't bother' . When they arrived they measured up the loft and filled in some 'contract' which I had to sign (7 day cooling off so I could well be cancelling this) where the cost item was 'FREE' (why am I being asked to sign for loft insulation in the LL house!!!)

Now, I'm less than happy about this, not so much the insulation but the lack of notice from the LA, the blasé way in which it was assumed I would just let them come when they felt like it and that the LA have given out my name, address and contact telephone number to a third party without my consent nor even bother to forewarn me. There is no mention in the contract I have with them of such actions and

'2 Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes.' http://www.legislati...8/29/schedule/1

Am I overreacting here or should I make a complaint over this to the ICO?

Hope I got all references, could folks who know who they are not mention my LA, thread was pulled before, soz. Cheers
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
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#2 porca misèria

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:54 AM

Your contact details were passed individually to the prospective contractor for a legitimate purpose. I doubt the data protection act would be remotely relevant.

I expect the landlord and LA think you'll be glad to have loft insulation (at least if you're still there next winter). Although communication with you was mishandled, I'd put that down to cockup, unless you have evidence of something more sinister.

#3 zebbedee

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:43 AM

Your contact details were passed individually to the prospective contractor for a legitimate purpose. I doubt the data protection act would be remotely relevant.

I expect the landlord and LA think you'll be glad to have loft insulation (at least if you're still there next winter). Although communication with you was mishandled, I'd put that down to cockup, unless you have evidence of something more sinister.

Yeh, it's possibly legit purpose for the LL but I didn't give them the information so they could send it out to all and sundry, yes better insulation is always good. There is also the issue, I have now been boxed into signing to have work done on the LL house (albeit free) but have nothing from either the LL/LA to say that the work can be done. As far as on paper I could in principle be held liable should in the future they say they hadn't consented. Should surely it not be a case of the LA send a letter to me explaining that they would like to arrange an appointment for these 'surveyors', who would then show up, measure up and then get a signature out of the LL/LA for the work and then the LL/LA can arrange with me some suitable arrangement for any inconvenience.

I feel like taking it up with the ICO because of how I now feel boxed in by them and the total disregard for my rights which is a running theme with the LA. I am going to cancel this contract within the cooling off period and tell the LA to sort out the signing up for the work themselves.

Edited by zebbedee, 02 May 2012 - 02:44 AM.

As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith

#4 The Eagle

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:11 AM

You shouldn't have signed anything, at least I wouldn't have. I would have told them to go get the written consent of the landlord. Now if for some reason the loft insulation is badly done you will be responsible for any remedial or removal work.
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#5 porca misèria

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

You shouldn't have signed anything, at least I wouldn't have. I would have told them to go get the written consent of the landlord. Now if for some reason the loft insulation is badly done you will be responsible for any remedial or removal work.

Indeed, I'd want at least to have discussed with the landlord/agent exactly what I was signing for, particularly any consequences that might disrupt my life.

I just don't think data protection is a way to do that. If the agent has been tried and proven useless then the obvious person would be the lettings ombudsman. Whoops, did I just invent a post that could be created without any requirement for a new quango, but within the existing TDS?

#6 zebbedee

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:01 AM

You shouldn't have signed anything, at least I wouldn't have. I would have told them to go get the written consent of the landlord. Now if for some reason the loft insulation is badly done you will be responsible for any remedial or removal work.

Yep, easily said after the event, wished I hadn't myself but at the time it was the easiest way to get these 2 salesmen out the door and exercise the cancellation rights than endure the hard sell.
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith

#7 Rozza

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:27 PM

Yep, easily said after the event, wished I hadn't myself but at the time it was the easiest way to get these 2 salesmen out the door and exercise the cancellation rights than endure the hard sell.


Assuming you have cancelled i think thats the right thing to do, you dont want to be help accountable for anyone fiddling with the property, personally i would suggest having a word with the LA and tell them they are not to give out your contact details to anybody, maybe slip in the fact they are breaking the law without outright stating it (im not 100% sure in this case if they are or arent)

#8 zebbedee

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

Assuming you have cancelled i think thats the right thing to do, you dont want to be help accountable for anyone fiddling with the property, personally i would suggest having a word with the LA and tell them they are not to give out your contact details to anybody, maybe slip in the fact they are breaking the law without outright stating it (im not 100% sure in this case if they are or arent)

Yeh, sent a letter recorded delivery today cancelling the contract, I was thinking of taking it up with ICO as if it is legal then no harm no foul but if not they should be held to account. This is the last straw so we're looking for somewhere else now. I can't understand what they are up to, it's possible they may be able to argue that the contractor is in relation to the tenancy and so it's not outside the processing of the data purpose but then its nothing to do with us per se until an appointment has been arranged between us and the LA and then boxing us in as we were. There should never have been a contact presented for us to sign to have work done on the LL property (the contractors new it was rented they had been instructed to do the survey by the LL). I'm really after what would you do kind of opinions, I don't feel I'm overreacting but maybe I am. In hindsight I should have insisted that they contact the LA and arrange it through them fully up to getting an appointment arranged woth us through the agents as they are the LL agents after all.

Edited by zebbedee, 03 May 2012 - 02:40 PM.

As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith

#9 Damocles

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:12 PM

I am not sure I can make a lot of sense of this. Why would anyone want to pressure someone into signing a contract where the cost to the customer is zero?

#10 zebbedee

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

I am not sure I can make a lot of sense of this. Why would anyone want to pressure someone into signing a contract where the cost to the customer is zero?

Its some scheme/government/council thing, so they'll get paid just I would presume not by me/LL (well certainly not by me) I was more concerned with having signed it that if work went ahead and remedial action was needed then I'm liable for the loss incurred as although the LL/LA instructed them to carry out the survey there was nothing in writing to me permitting the work but I would be saying go ahead. The whole thing is a mess because they (the LL/LA) should have first got in contact with me and arranged things through them and all I would have been doing was allowing their contractors access. But what transpired was the first I knew of it was a phone call out of the blue from the contractors. Now the email (I received after mailing them) is handy but doesn't go so far as consent from the LL for the work that the contract I had signed agrees to.
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith

#11 tim123

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:19 PM

I am not sure I can make a lot of sense of this. Why would anyone want to pressure someone into signing a contract where the cost to the customer is zero?


ask A4E that (they have a lot of experience - allegedly)

tim

Edited by tim123, 04 May 2012 - 12:22 PM.


#12 porca misèria

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:53 PM

I am not sure I can make a lot of sense of this. Why would anyone want to pressure someone into signing a contract where the cost to the customer is zero?

I get that once a year with the servicing of the boiler (which is a legal responsibility of the landlord). A routine matter, and I'm happy to sign for it.




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