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Access For Viewings...


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#1 smifta

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

Quick question. Just handed in notice on my flat after four years renting. Emailed him saying am off. If you want to do viewings then I definitely want to be around in the flat....suggest Sat mornings as best time, etc.

Got the following reply:

"Further we need to market the property and the tenancy agreement allows for us to have access subject to sufficient notice. Leaving only Saturday mornings available for viewings is not workable. As for being present we appreciate the request but to effectively market the property this doesn't work. "

Basically the tone and content really annoyed me. Tenancy agreement says notice, etc... but I want agreement not notice. Also I want to be in if people are nosing about my house! What works for them isnt my problem... they arent paying the rent.

Am going to write back but wanted to check I can object to anybody entering my place to wander about?

#2 Monkey

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:47 PM

you will now get about 10 posts saying "quiet enjoyment of the property" is what you are entiltled to.

which means the LL/LA can only enter without getting permission from you if the place is on fire etc. if you dont want any viewings then tell them, and there is naff all they can do. its in both your interests to work this out and explain to the LL that.

ask for a reduction in rent, if they say no then say no viewings untill i move. there is sod all they can do about it. but expect them to try and be underhand about refferences/deposit

#3 smifta

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

Yeh thanks for advice. Just googled quiet enjoyment... thats just the ticket!

I thought was being fair about the needing to be in the property....and suggesting some good days for viewings.

#4 PropertyAnalyser

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

Hi,

The wording in my AST is "...at dates and times mutually agreed with the tenant."

Check yours, but if it is the same you must agree otherwise they are not allowed to enter your home.

I would suggest a default response like:

Dear landlord/agent.

The proposed date/time for the viewing in your letter dated XX/YY/ZZZZ is not convenient, please contact me again at your earliest convenience to request a new date/time.

Regards,

The tenant.


and just keeps sending the same reply, but always leave it as late as you can or you might end up sending 100's of emails/letters!

Obviously if they suggest a date/time that is convenient tell them :P

Hope that helps.

Edited by PropertyAnalyser, 25 April 2012 - 12:55 PM.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi.

#5 Dorkins

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

The main thing I have learned from this subforum is that the law is not clear about whether a landlord has the right to access a tenanted property without the tenant's permission and when the access is not to perform emergency repairs. The government is creating conflict between landlords and tenants by failing to lay down clear rules.

The law is on neither your side nor your landlord's. The only thing you can do is stick to your guns. Hope it goes well.

#6 zebbedee

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

you will now get about 10 posts saying "quiet enjoyment of the property" is what you are entiltled to.

which means the LL/LA can only enter without getting permission from you if the place is on fire etc. if you dont want any viewings then tell them, and there is naff all they can do. its in both your interests to work this out and explain to the LL that.

ask for a reduction in rent, if they say no then say no viewings untill i move. there is sod all they can do about it. but expect them to try and be underhand about refferences/deposit

This.
But don't simply refuse, it is always best to go with PropertyAnalyser's reply-there can be no comeback for loss as you will be being reasonable but their times are not convenient. If they try and suggest that they will enter when they feel like it or indeed do just enter when they feel like it, then threaten with the police or in the latter that 50toz of gold you had have gone missing haven't they ;)
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
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#7 zebbedee

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:12 PM

The main thing I have learned from this subforum is that the law is not clear about whether a landlord has the right to access a tenanted property without the tenant's permission and when the access is not to perform emergency repairs. The government is creating conflict between landlords and tenants by failing to lay down clear rules.

The law is on neither your side nor your landlord's. The only thing you can do is stick to your guns. Hope it goes well.

Not so. Unless the LL has specifically reserved entry rights but he cannot do this as it would constitute an unfair term and that is why it is always worded 'by mutual agreement'
'The law already provides protection for tenants in respect of their right to decide who may enter their home and their right to quiet enjoyment of their property. A tenant has the right to exclude the landlord from the premises that are let to the tenant, unless the landlord is exercising the limited rights to enter reserved to the landlord in the tenancy agreement. Other than when the landlord is exercising those rights, it is for the tenant to determine if and when the landlord may enter the property. The common parts of a building divided into flats are not, however, the tenants’ property.'
http://www.publicati...111012p0001.htm

'3.32 We would object to a provision giving the landlord an excessive right to enter the rented property. Under any kind of lease or tenancy, a landlord is required by common law to allow his tenants 'exclusive possession' and 'quiet enjoyment' of the premises during the tenancy. In other words, tenants must be free from unwarranted intrusion by anyone, including the landlord. Landlords are unfairly disregarding that basic obligation if they reserve a right to enter the property without giving reasonable notice or getting the tenant's consent, except for good reason.

3.33 The same principles apply to terms giving excessive rights to the landlord to demand access for prospective new tenants or purchasers to view the premises.'
http://www.oft.gov.u...erms/oft356.pdf

Edited by zebbedee, 25 April 2012 - 01:16 PM.

As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith

#8 Dorkins

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:31 PM

Not so. Unless the LL has specifically reserved entry rights but he cannot do this as it would constitute an unfair term and that is why it is always worded 'by mutual agreement'
'The law already provides protection for tenants in respect of their right to decide who may enter their home and their right to quiet enjoyment of their property. A tenant has the right to exclude the landlord from the premises that are let to the tenant, unless the landlord is exercising the limited rights to enter reserved to the landlord in the tenancy agreement. Other than when the landlord is exercising those rights, it is for the tenant to determine if and when the landlord may enter the property. The common parts of a building divided into flats are not, however, the tenants’ property.'
http://www.publicati...111012p0001.htm

'3.32 We would object to a provision giving the landlord an excessive right to enter the rented property. Under any kind of lease or tenancy, a landlord is required by common law to allow his tenants 'exclusive possession' and 'quiet enjoyment' of the premises during the tenancy. In other words, tenants must be free from unwarranted intrusion by anyone, including the landlord. Landlords are unfairly disregarding that basic obligation if they reserve a right to enter the property without giving reasonable notice or getting the tenant's consent, except for good reason.

3.33 The same principles apply to terms giving excessive rights to the landlord to demand access for prospective new tenants or purchasers to view the premises.'
http://www.oft.gov.u...erms/oft356.pdf


So if a landlord reserves the right to access for viewings after giving reasonable notice, consent is not required? Positively feudal.

#9 zebbedee

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

So if a landlord reserves the right to access for viewings after giving reasonable notice, consent is not required? Positively feudal.

No
'The law already provides protection for tenants in respect of their right to decide who may enter their home and their right to quiet enjoyment of their property', and this is overriding, you cannot blanket refuse to accede to the LL request for entry which they may have put in place in the contract 'by mutual agreement' but it can always be inconvenient for you.
]
Edit
Indeed
'Landlords are unfairly disregarding that basic obligation if they reserve a right to enter the property without giving reasonable notice or getting the tenant's consent, except for good reason'

Edited by zebbedee, 25 April 2012 - 02:12 PM.

As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.

"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.c...iff011909.html" My link

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith

#10 Son of Taeper

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:15 PM

Need to be fair I think on both sides.
If you're moving out, and you told them, get it mutual.
Double bolt the door while your out if you have any concerns, but a pile of dirty washing might help as well just to make sure it is mutual.
The views expressed in my posts are my own based upon what I read on other information supplied by other HPC members.
These should not be used a a definitive answer to any posts I attempt to answer.

#11 cybernoid

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:32 PM

You were perfectly reasonable, actually going further than you needed to by offering a mutually convenient time.

In view of the tone of the response I would tell them they cannot access the property until the end of the tenancy, and withdraw your previous generous offer of co-operation. Lock the door in a way that prevents their entry if this is possible.

With the DPS in place tenants dont need to take this kind of sh1t anymore.

#12 Flopsy

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:14 AM

I initially offered Wednesday afternoons to agents for viewings at a flat. Needed to take the LL to the small claims court to get my bond back at the end as this was before the DPS.

The LL argued that I had been unreasonable by not allowing viewings but the small claims court judge didn't agree with this. I had been more than reasonable he thought. I also offered evidence of behaviour by the agents when they thought I was out which included entering the property when I was very ill in the bathroom. The sympathy of the small claims court was with me. My LL had hired a lawyer previous to the small claims court but he backed off quickly when he found out about all of this.

Be careful with people who enter your flat as you may end up with dog muck on your carpet as we did and photos taken without permission of the rooms with your private property on display.

Good luck. It is good that you are having this exchange my email so you will have evidence if needed later.

Edited by Flopsy, 26 April 2012 - 04:16 AM.


#13 porca misèria

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:15 AM

Be careful with people who enter your flat as you may end up with dog muck on your carpet as we did and photos taken without permission of the rooms with your private property on display.

You could end up with worse than that!

Not so very long ago I was viewing a rental house, and found I'd been multi-booked: there were other prospective tenants at the same time. The house in question (which was actually rather nice) was full of an outgoing tenant's belongings. There would've been absolutely nothing to stop me (or of course anyone) helping myself to the old tenant's belongings while the agent was talking to someone else.

[to name names]

That agent was "Your Move", who I now avoid. I don't want to be party to that sort of thing, nor do I want it happening to me!

Edited by porca misèria, 26 April 2012 - 07:16 AM.





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