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Scotland Won't Keep Uk's Aaa Rating If It Gains Independence, Says Fitch


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#16 Peter Hun

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

I don't think you know what you're talking about, and your sentiment is biased to the point of bigotry I'd hazard.

Mods, put into current affairs please.

Or you could just run and hide.

If they were totally independent, they would not have the ability to print another country's currency. So either they'd have to use the GBP with the BoE controlling the money supply and the Scots having no say over it


A big problem would come with the banks, obviously the BoE would not be a lender of last resort so they will have to choose who they report to. Now if that means they have to be headquartered in the UK, the question would be why these banks have so many of their staff employed in a foreign country.

If the banks decide to go from a AAA currency to a lower rating currency, stay in Scotland, then who knows what that amount of debt would do to their economy, the Uk is barely standing now. Dump that on a Scottish banking system and it would be nonviable.

Iceland would be a interesting comparison (only 10x GDP debt), they tried to move the banks to the Euro, didn't happen. They have capital controls and a failing economy to look forward to for a decade or so.

Edited by Peter Hun, 25 April 2012 - 09:22 AM.


#17 AThirdWay

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

Case in point, the delusion that a socialist country of five million is as stable and comparable to a capitalist economy 100 time bigger.

Try a comparison with Panama instead


Now now Peter, don't be silly! I used the US as an example to highlight the lack of regard for the ratings given by Fitch, not as an example of how the Scottish economy will look. I hope your understanding of financial matters is better than your understanding of the English language :lol:

Anyhoo.... I'm no expert on financial matters myself, but I am looking forward to all those lovely petro-dollars working for Scotland and not the rest of the UK. Excluding Lahndan of course.

Or perhaps we should sell for Indian rupees? Decisions, decisions......

#18 Peter Hun

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

Now now Peter, don't be silly! I used the US as an example to highlight the lack of regard for the ratings given by Fitch, not as an example of how the Scottish economy will look. I hope your understanding of financial matters is better than your understanding of the English language :lol:

Anyhoo.... I'm no expert on financial matters myself, but I am looking forward to all those lovely petro-dollars working for Scotland and not the rest of the UK. Excluding Lahndan of course.

Or perhaps we should sell for Indian rupees? Decisions, decisions......



Look at Iceland as a comparison, you cannot ignore the banks as they are going to be much bigger effect on the economy than Oil. Iceland is an energy exporter and resource positive (fish).

Green energy is Scotland real future, not oil; its resources are infinite

Edited by Peter Hun, 25 April 2012 - 09:26 AM.


#19 cashinmattress

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

Or you could just run and hide.



A big problem would come with the banks, obviously the BoE would not be a lender of last resort so they will have to choose who they report to. Now if that means they have to be headquartered in the UK, the question would be why these banks have so many of their staff employed in a foreign country.

If the banks decide to go from a AAA currency to a lower rating currency, stay in Scotland, then who knows what that amount of debt would do to their economy, the Uk is barely standing now. Dump that on a Scottish banking system and it would be nonviable.


If anything, England should be waving the independence banners and saying adieu, because if this forum is the intellectual hotbed some purport it to be, Scottish folk are a bunch of intellectual and fiscal fuddy-duddy's with an English taxpayer supported expense account.

#20 Peter Hun

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:37 AM

If anything, England should be waving the independence banners and saying adieu, because if this forum is the intellectual hotbed some purport it to be, Scottish folk are a bunch of intellectual and fiscal fuddy-duddy's with an English taxpayer supported expense account.



Well I am and indeed many other English are keen for Scottish independence. The problem is the Scots are far less keen as they seem to find all sorts of excuses not to have a vote.

Have a vote tomorrow and get it over or STFU is a valid expression, I'm afraid..

#21 AThirdWay

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:39 AM

Look at Iceland as a comparison, you cannot ignore the banks as they are going to be much bigger effect on the economy than Oil. Iceland is an energy exporter and resource positive (fish).

Green energy is Scotland real future, not oil; its resources are infinite


We have a chance to withdraw from the financially driven economy (and look where that's got us!) to a manufacturing based economy. Renewables being a case in point. Your right, we are ideally placed to both generate and develop renewable energy, but we're losing out at the moment. We can use the limited life of our oil resources to create a tax system that attracts this emerging industry to our country.

Do you think Westminster will do this for us?

The elephant in the room is how we extract ourselves from the financial mess that the UK is in. Obviously, being a Scot, I want to accept the burden of wholly Scottish banks. Those that are headquartered in other countries, or owned by a parent company that is headquartered in other countries, are not our problem.

I accept this is unlikely to happen ;) but as oor loon Alex Salmond (I'm not a big fan btw!) said recently, even if we accept the per capita burden, how are we worse off?

#22 AThirdWay

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

Well I am and indeed many other English are keen for Scottish independence. The problem is the Scots are far less keen as they seem to find all sorts of excuses not to have a vote.

Have a vote tomorrow and get it over or STFU is a valid expression, I'm afraid..


And why should we be driven by your opinion? Nothing personal but if you are (as your info tell's me) in Krakow, then you should have even less say in the matter than anyone in the UK!

The SNP have outlined when the referendum shall be held, and did so before the last election. External influeces are just background noise now.

#23 CrashInHand

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:57 AM

Better for everyone if governments could not borrow any monies. B)

One would hope if it's more expensive to borrow they would borrow less. :rolleyes: :lol:

#24 homeless

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

Why is it allways only about money?

Way i see it quality of life matters much more, we think were richer here because we earn triple what someone say in peru earn, yet i see more contented happy people in peru. For your average joe, there aint much between peru, scotland, estonia, zanzibar we all just scrape buy spending most on keeping a roof over our head and feeding ourselves.

#25 billfunk

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9224182/Scotland-wont-keep-UKs-AAA-rating-if-it-gains-independence-says-Fitch.html

'Although the precise division of UK assets and liabilities has not yet been established



I would be more interested if anyone had informed opinions on this.

Too much debt taken on by Scotland would make independence unviable. Too little and it would in effect be theft from the English.

#26 Peter Hun

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:21 PM

And why should we be driven by your opinion? Nothing personal but if you are (as your info tell's me) in Krakow, then you should have even less say in the matter than anyone in the UK!

The SNP have outlined when the referendum shall be held, and did so before the last election. External influeces are just background noise now.



Indeed the opinion of the English as as valid as the opinion of the Poles in Poland, which makes you wonder why the Scots get so upset and argue about it with teh English. Its other Scots who need persuading.

Renewables being a case in point. Your right, we are ideally placed to both generate and develop renewable energy, but we're losing out at the moment. We can use the limited life of our oil resources to create a tax system that attracts this emerging industry to our country.

Do you think Westminster will do this for us?


Yes, they already are.

The biggest investment in building the High Voltage DC transmission line to the south - and that will need to be paid for by the English, I thought it was already approved. Westminster already offers major tax incentives for wind power (much to the chagrin of most posters on this right wing forum). Whats stopping wind development is Scottish people objecting to it, not the tax regime.

When Scotland gets independence I expect even more objections - 'spoiling our countryside to benefit the English'

Edited by Peter Hun, 25 April 2012 - 10:23 PM.


#27 Kurt Barlow

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

Look at Iceland as a comparison, you cannot ignore the banks as they are going to be much bigger effect on the economy than Oil. Iceland is an energy exporter and resource positive (fish).

Green energy is Scotland real future, not oil; its resources are infinite


Potentially- if they build the HVDC line. Otherwise do you mean embodied energy in exported aluminium?

#28 AThirdWay

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

Indeed the opinion of the English as as valid as the opinion of the Poles in Poland, which makes you wonder why the Scots get so upset and argue about it with teh English. Its other Scots who need persuading.


I'm not upset, just responding to an OP that finished with "oh joy.Does that mean we get to keep them?". Plus a wee smiley :D I'm happy to promote independance, whether it's to us Scots, or the rest of the UK.

Yes, they already are.

The biggest investment in building the High Voltage DC transmission line to the south - and that will need to be paid for by the English, I thought it was already approved. Westminster already offers major tax incentives for wind power (much to the chagrin of most posters on this right wing forum). Whats stopping wind development is Scottish people objecting to it, not the tax regime.


Surely, the Western HVDC line is proposed to benefit England? I understand that generated power will be transmitted FROM, not TO, Hunterston? If we were an independent nation, then I could understand your point, but we're not. Hence, the UK will subsidise this development.

I'm happy to say that you've strengthened the arguement for independance. All those loverly GBP's streaming in from our renewables!

As to tax incentives for renewable generation, they're available to the whole of the UK, and try telling Donald Trump that Scot's don't want wind farms :D

When Scotland gets independence I expect even more objections - 'spoiling our countryside to benefit the English'


When Scot's get independence, I expect most Scot's to step up to the plate and earn their place amongst the Worlds nations. Most of the NIMBY's I see on TV, especially in the isles, don't have Scottish accents. Guess which accent the have......




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