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It's Not Our Job To Help Savers, Says Bank Of England


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#31 Police

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:49 PM

There aren't any savers in the banking system. Only creditors and debtors.

#32 Gigantic Purple Slug

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:21 PM

No. Unlike the USA, they BoE has no direct remit for the economy whatsoever. It does have a dual remit though: 'monetary and financial stability'.

The first of these remits used to drive their policy. Now it has been overwhelmed by the second.

And yes, of course the 'economy' affects both of these.

I also believe that 'secrecy' forms a part of meeting those overriiding objectives on the basis that 'confidence' is key. So we will never find out.



EDIT: This better describes the BoE's purpose. The remit earlier is the Monetary Policy Committee and it is clear that the Bank only agreed to the price target whilst Gordo was trying to push support for economic growth...the weasil get out phrase being 'subject to that'. They don't say what they can do to support growth if all their efforts are on meeting the priority of the inflation target.

Having said that, it is clear that Financial Stability has driven ALL their decisions for the last few years.


http://www.bankofeng...es/default.aspx


I find it extremely hard to determine from the remit what the actual remit is.

Ultimately though the issue is that the remit exists, and is issued to the BOE by the government.

If the government is unhappy with the way the BOE acts or interprets the remit, I assume it has the power to intervene as the ultimate authority. The fact that it doesn't tells you all you need to know.

It's not hard to see through the smoke and mirrors on this one.

#33 Democorruptcy

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:43 PM

The only way that could be delivered, was to allow a multi decade credit expansion. And now, people want more of the same!

Sorry, can't be done. There is no way the bank could achieve it, even if it wanted to.



Yes, looking at asia and the EMs in general, you'll see a pattern of negative real rates over much the same period I was talking about above.

Rebalancing?

That means doing a swap, we get negative real rates, some jobs back and affordable domestic investment, they get positive real rates and give up some jobs and get to buy more tat. That's what rebalancing has to mean.

You do want rebalancing don't you?


How come the OBR is predicting an extra £500bn household debt in this parliament then?

Not that "rebalancing" rubbish again. There is no plan to rebalance. If there were the low interest rates would be passed onto businesses instead of them being bled dry by banks. The banks are even trousering money via interest rate swaps. The word "rebalancing" in the UK means "banks stealing to keep their bonuses flowing"

We cannot rebalance if we do not have lower living costs (mainly housing) and input costs. You need cheap raw materials and labour to make things.

Democorruptcy
If you say "Democorruptcy" quickly, it sounds a bit like "Democracy". In a "Democracy" people vote for politicians who represent their interests. In the UK's "Democorruptcy" people can only vote for expense fiddling thieving MPs who are in the hip pocket of big business and the finance sector.

Governbankment
A "Governbankment" is a Government that has no line between itself and banks. It diverts public money (our taxes) to private companies (banks). George Osborne's Help to Buy Bail Banks, will see our taxes go to bankers to cover their losses on mortgages that default. The UK's Governbankment will even pay bankers "reasonable repossession fees" on Help to Bail Bank mortgages that default.

The Funding for Lending Scheme (FLS) is stealing from savers to make them pay for crimes by bankers. Via lower interest on savings, all the bank fines for PPI, LIBOR, interest rates swaps, etc. are being paid by savers so that bankers can keep pocketing bonuses. 

"We need to make a really big change: from an economy built on debt to an economy built on savings" - David Camoron Jan 2009
"Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed" - George Osborne Jan 2009
- So what do Camoron & Osborne do? Print money and leave interest rates at 0.5% when inflation is over 5%

If it is asserted that civilization is a real advance in the condition of man -- and I think that it is, though only the wise improve their advantages -- it must be shown that it has produced better dwellings without making them more costly; and the cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
http://classiclit.ab...en-Part-2_4.htm

I want to tell you my secret now.... I see debt people


#34 tinker

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:50 PM

seriously needs to be a world wide register of these scum and someones law against them......

It would be funny if such a list existed.

The Scumbag Register though I'm sure others could come up with a more descriptive name, just don't call them a c#!t.

#35 MrPin

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:52 PM

Surely the "job" of the BoE is to "help themselves"? :lol: :huh:
Ignorance can be cured! Stupidity cannot!

#36 Democorruptcy

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

Surely the "job" of the BoE is to "help themselves"? :lol: :huh:


Being on the MPC is a path to riches.

Lucrative consultancies with banks and house builders.

Democorruptcy
If you say "Democorruptcy" quickly, it sounds a bit like "Democracy". In a "Democracy" people vote for politicians who represent their interests. In the UK's "Democorruptcy" people can only vote for expense fiddling thieving MPs who are in the hip pocket of big business and the finance sector.

Governbankment
A "Governbankment" is a Government that has no line between itself and banks. It diverts public money (our taxes) to private companies (banks). George Osborne's Help to Buy Bail Banks, will see our taxes go to bankers to cover their losses on mortgages that default. The UK's Governbankment will even pay bankers "reasonable repossession fees" on Help to Bail Bank mortgages that default.

The Funding for Lending Scheme (FLS) is stealing from savers to make them pay for crimes by bankers. Via lower interest on savings, all the bank fines for PPI, LIBOR, interest rates swaps, etc. are being paid by savers so that bankers can keep pocketing bonuses. 

"We need to make a really big change: from an economy built on debt to an economy built on savings" - David Camoron Jan 2009
"Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed" - George Osborne Jan 2009
- So what do Camoron & Osborne do? Print money and leave interest rates at 0.5% when inflation is over 5%

If it is asserted that civilization is a real advance in the condition of man -- and I think that it is, though only the wise improve their advantages -- it must be shown that it has produced better dwellings without making them more costly; and the cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
http://classiclit.ab...en-Part-2_4.htm

I want to tell you my secret now.... I see debt people


#37 hotairmail

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:57 PM

How come the OBR is predicting an extra £500bn household debt in this parliament then?

Not that "rebalancing" rubbish again. There is no plan to rebalance. If there were the low interest rates would be passed onto businesses instead of them being bled dry by banks. The banks are even trousering money via interest rate swaps. The word "rebalancing" in the UK means "banks stealing to keep their bonuses flowing"

We cannot rebalance if we do not have lower living costs (mainly housing) and input costs. You need cheap raw materials and labour to make things.


Funny you should say that. I noted a change in the annual Monetary Policy Committee remit letters from Gordo's time....third para

I think there is an honest 'intent' - just that they don't know how to do it...certainly their other dearly held beliefs stop them from doing so.


http://www.bankofeng...etter110323.pdf


Posted Image

Edited by hotairmail, 13 April 2012 - 06:58 PM.

"The chicken is radiating disorder out into the wider universe."


#38 Democorruptcy

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:08 PM

Funny you should say that. I noted a change in the annual Monetary Policy Committee remit letters from Gordo's time....third para

I think there is an honest 'intent' - just that they don't know how to do it...certainly their other dearly held beliefs stop them from doing so.


http://www.bankofeng...etter110323.pdf


Posted Image


"sustainable and balanced growth that is more evenly shared across the country and industries"!!

Nothing could be further away than what they are doing. Everyone in the UK is facing higher living costs to keep London property prices high.

Industries?

Index of production for manufacturing was 100.5 in Q2 2007, 92.1 in Q2 2011.
Output index for business services & finance was 105.0 in Q2 2007, 104.7 in Q2 2011.

Democorruptcy
If you say "Democorruptcy" quickly, it sounds a bit like "Democracy". In a "Democracy" people vote for politicians who represent their interests. In the UK's "Democorruptcy" people can only vote for expense fiddling thieving MPs who are in the hip pocket of big business and the finance sector.

Governbankment
A "Governbankment" is a Government that has no line between itself and banks. It diverts public money (our taxes) to private companies (banks). George Osborne's Help to Buy Bail Banks, will see our taxes go to bankers to cover their losses on mortgages that default. The UK's Governbankment will even pay bankers "reasonable repossession fees" on Help to Bail Bank mortgages that default.

The Funding for Lending Scheme (FLS) is stealing from savers to make them pay for crimes by bankers. Via lower interest on savings, all the bank fines for PPI, LIBOR, interest rates swaps, etc. are being paid by savers so that bankers can keep pocketing bonuses. 

"We need to make a really big change: from an economy built on debt to an economy built on savings" - David Camoron Jan 2009
"Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed" - George Osborne Jan 2009
- So what do Camoron & Osborne do? Print money and leave interest rates at 0.5% when inflation is over 5%

If it is asserted that civilization is a real advance in the condition of man -- and I think that it is, though only the wise improve their advantages -- it must be shown that it has produced better dwellings without making them more costly; and the cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
http://classiclit.ab...en-Part-2_4.htm

I want to tell you my secret now.... I see debt people


#39 scepticus

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:35 PM

I notice the NIRP warning siren hasn't been sounding recently.

Why's that do you think ?


The swiss two-year note went negative day before yesterday I think , quite a bit negative. Two year note!

I couldn't be bothered to update the nirp thread. I'm looking for a bigger event for future updates.

#40 Game_Over

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:44 PM

For most of the period since the 70s, real interest rates have been very reliably positive:

Posted Image

Going back further into the 20th century, you do see a sustained period of negative real interest rates during and after the war. Further back than that back into gold standard days in the 19th century, you see a lot of volatility with large swings in the real interest rate, positive and negative.

So in recent times, relative to the very long run average, savers have been very consistently favoured with an unprecedented period in which positive real rates have persisted.

So given that borrowers have been systematically punished relative to savers for 4 decades, the save our savers meme looks distinctly selfish, and myopic.

Also consider that perhaps the long period of saver-favouritism and relatively high real rates, may well be is a primary reason for the excessive levels of indebtedness we now face.


You are ignoring decades of an ever growing welfare state which is in the process of bankrupting every government in the West.

If you pay the majority of the population to do nothing, then government debt will rise until governments are forced to default

It has f*ck all to do with banking, interest rates or savers

these are just symptoms of the disease - not the disease itself.

And in case you hadn't noticed - real interest rates are continuing to rise.

:blink:

#41 Game_Over

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:46 PM

The swiss two-year note went negative day before yesterday I think , quite a bit negative. Two year note!

I couldn't be bothered to update the nirp thread. I'm looking for a bigger event for future updates.


So you think that the Swiss economy is representative then!!!!!!!

Let me know when Spain's two year notes go negative

:blink:

#42 Take Me Back To London!

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:48 PM

Savers have a choice, they don't have to save with the Bank of England....there is the rest of the world don't they know. ;)


Exactly.

I have always been a rate tart and my cash savings had to come out a few years back when the BoE really started taking the slash.
Bankers may well have acted as if they’ve been sitting in the casino during the boom years. But it was a state-owned casino, with governments as the croupiers, and central bankers behind the bar giving out free booze.

John Stepek

#43 Game_Over

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

Their job is to control inflation.

Thery are refusing to do that.

Their interest rate setting powers should be removed.

No one has every voted for these people and they are crippling most of the country....but than bankers are ok.

Funny that,...no bias whatsoever, its all in the aid of the economy.

Will one MP not stand up and fight for the other 99.99999999999% of the country ?


They are transferring wealth from creditors to debtors

the banks are just middle men who are taking a cut on the transaction

But the banks are not being given money

debtors are

And the government is the biggest debtor of all

:blink:

#44 Take Me Back To London!

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

You are ignoring decades of an ever growing welfare state which is in the process of bankrupting every government in the West.

If you pay the majority of the population to do nothing, then government debt will rise until governments are forced to default

:blink:


I watched last week the last episode of BBC 2's The Tube documentary and there was a foreign worker, maybe Polish, working nights down on the Underground in a tunnel cleaning gang and he could not understand how the UK could pay people to do nothing, it just did not make sense to him.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!, 13 April 2012 - 07:58 PM.

Bankers may well have acted as if they’ve been sitting in the casino during the boom years. But it was a state-owned casino, with governments as the croupiers, and central bankers behind the bar giving out free booze.

John Stepek

#45 Gigantic Purple Slug

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:00 PM

The swiss two-year note went negative day before yesterday I think , quite a bit negative. Two year note!

I couldn't be bothered to update the nirp thread. I'm looking for a bigger event for future updates.


I guess I was wondering whether you saw recent policy as responsible for delaying what you see as inevitable.

I beleive the timescale for negative rates (if we get them at all) has been extended.

Edit : I suppose a negative swiss 2 year note is a fair enough response to this belief.

Edited by Gigantic Purple Slug, 13 April 2012 - 08:02 PM.





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