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Doctors According To Voltaire


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#16 TheBlueCat

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:58 AM

Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing.
Voltaire

Has anything changed?

That's probably all still true but some, much even, of the stuff they now prescribe actually works. I have a chronic disease which, 100 years ago would have killed me in my 20s, now I take a daily dose of a relatively cheap drug with no noticeable side effects and have a normal life expectancy. Western medicine and the people that practice it is f*cking brilliant!

#17 Bloo Loo

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:31 AM

A friend of mine is on a ward.

Daily activties are axed at weekends to "cut costs".

Yet every visiting room has new leather sofas ( just delivered)...nurse admin said it was because they had to spend the remainder of the "budget" or lose it next year.
WARNING

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on a gilt or other loan secured on it





#18 aSecureTenant

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:48 AM

My Dad just turned 60.

Diagnosed as Diabetic about 7 years ago - taking increasing amount of medication, having more and more health problems as a result of diabetes.

The 'Diabetes Nurse' told him to eat a good helping of carbs with every meal. Doctor just gave him increasing numbers of pills. I had been trying in vain to get him to switch to a Paleo diet, but no luck.

Finally a few months back things declined to the point where he got scared enough to try Paleo. Lost a stone and a half in three months. Blood sugar better than it's been in 10 years. Just reduced the diabetes medication by half, with a view to reducing it further depending on how things go.

At 60, he is slimmer than I can ever remember. If he loses another half stone, he'll be the same weight he was on his wedding day 30 years ago. It took years of me telling him that the doctor/nurse were wrong; he didn't believe me for a long time.

Needless to say now he does!


Good post, and excellent news for your dad who has got his life back.Posted Image

"Capitalism has defeated communism. It is now well on its way to defeating democracy" ~ David Korten

“To think output and income can be raised by increasing the quantity of money, is like trying to get fat by buying a larger belt” ~ John Maynard Keynes 

 


#19 Bossybabe

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:17 AM

A friend of mine is on a ward.

Daily activties are axed at weekends to "cut costs".

Yet every visiting room has new leather sofas ( just delivered)...nurse admin said it was because they had to spend the remainder of the "budget" or lose it next year.


Simple. Activities cost the STAFF budget and sofa costs the FURNITURE & EQUIPMENT budget. You can't move money between the two. :(
QUOTES:

  • "This is going to hurt you much more than it will hurt me." - Bossybabe
  • "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein.
  • "This fellow is wise enough to play the fool, and to do that well craves a kind of wit. He must observe their mood on whom he jests, The quality of persons, and the time" VIOLA, Twelfth Night, William Shakespeare
  • "Oh, when she's angry, she is keen and shrewd! She was a vixen when she went to school. And though she be but little, she is fierce." - HELENA, A Midsummer Night's Dream, William Shakespeare

#20 RichB

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:20 AM

Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing.
Voltaire

Has anything changed?



It would be interesting to debate the point, however, there is work to be done in the garden.

#21 Britney's Piers

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

They consultants swan around this town in 4x4's with blacked out windows. Yet its the sickest town I've ever seen. Many hobbling about, overweight and with dodgy bones and joints.

Even I think I could cure some of them (if caught early enough) with Vit D and iodine supplementation, removal/elimination of wheat or white flour from the diet.

The Industrial Medical Complex?Or rather the Pharma Fast Food Supermarket Medical Complex?


I was diagnosed with IBS by a GP, given 3 prescriptions, two medicines and one for a synthetic fibre, total cost 18/month for life, and they didn't even work that well. Did some research, changed my diet and take a daily calicum+Vit D supplement. Total cost now 0.58 per month.

#22 MrPin

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:29 PM

I was diagnosed with IBS by a GP, given 3 prescriptions, two medicines and one for a synthetic fibre, total cost 18/month for life, and they didn't even work that well. Did some research, changed my diet and take a daily calicum+Vit D supplement. Total cost now 0.58 per month.



That's crap innit! :lol:

I think my curry,beer, and pickled egg diet keeps me sorted! ;)
Ignorance can be cured! Stupidity cannot!

#23 Bossybabe

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:51 PM

I was diagnosed with IBS by a GP, given 3 prescriptions, two medicines and one for a synthetic fibre, total cost 18/month for life, and they didn't even work that well. Did some research, changed my diet and take a daily calicum+Vit D supplement. Total cost now 0.58 per month.


I've just had a follow up consultation 9 years post stroke. The doc said the best advice she could give me was not to lose weight (which I admit I need to do) but to get out into the sunlight as often as possible. Vit D daily now.
QUOTES:

  • "This is going to hurt you much more than it will hurt me." - Bossybabe
  • "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein.
  • "This fellow is wise enough to play the fool, and to do that well craves a kind of wit. He must observe their mood on whom he jests, The quality of persons, and the time" VIOLA, Twelfth Night, William Shakespeare
  • "Oh, when she's angry, she is keen and shrewd! She was a vixen when she went to school. And though she be but little, she is fierce." - HELENA, A Midsummer Night's Dream, William Shakespeare

#24 Ascii

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:39 PM

Finally a few months back things declined to the point where he got scared enough to try Paleo.


I can see a lot of sense in eschewing some things (mainly highly refined carbs), but I can't see much sense in applying the same to whole grains/legumes etc which I gather the Paleo diet does. There's certainly plenty of evidence to suggest that consumption of both is a good thing (Med diet etc).

I'm always bemused by the contents of people's trolleys at the supermarket - full to the brim more often than not with brightly coloured packaged foods. Have we forgotten how to start from the basics?

Anyway back to topic; there's still an element of truth to what Voltaire says and I think that will be the case for a long time. The human body is pretty darn complicated and given the current compensation culture (is that an unintended consequence of free market healthcare?) I can't see any great innovations ahead, just the usual gradual trudge. A doctor just follows a text book after all, the advances aren't made at ground level and that slows things down (though of course I doubt most would be content to be guinea pigs). We've just scratched the surface really I think.

#25 Byron

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:59 PM

Trouble with quacks is that they are technocrats. They see everything in isolation, in laboratory conditions, and ignorant of other concerns.

Seems hardly a week goes by without the BMA calling for smoking to be fully criminalized (because obviously that works with other narcotics, prohibition of alcohol etc)

Ignoring the futility of it, what about freedom to do what i damn well please with my body.

Same with the Police. Sure they could get crime down if they had complete control in a police state, but i consider my privacy more important than living in a crime free world.
Same with the transport people. I know im more likely to die doing 80mph than 40mph, its a risk im happy to take.

Technocrats maybe scientifically correct. It doesnt mean they are 'right'

+1

#26 libspero

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

By the time your forty the only person qualified to be your doctor** should be yourself. The Internet makes this infinitely easier.

(** I'm talking GP here not specialist consultant or surgeon )


I won't get started on GPs.. but +1 to that :D

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#27 hotairmail

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:39 PM

Unfortunately, this is the problem. Doctors all know that one of the most useful things for diabetes is weight loss, which is most easily achieved with a careful diet (containing lots of complex slow-release carbohydrates, such as whole grains, etc.), appropriate exercise, etc.

The problem is that advising a patient to take up such a diet is totally ineffectual. This has been trialled over and over, advising people to eat a good diet and lose weight, simply doesn't work (because the advice isn't followed until it's bordering on too late).

The difficulty is that many pills (including various anti-diabetic medications), but also statins, do work. The fact is that the most effective thing a doctor can do is prescribe sugar lowering drugs, blood pressure lowering drugs and statins, to a patient with type 2 diabetes. It's not that losing weight doesn't work - it does. It's just that *advising* weight loss doesn't.


Another excellent post.

I hope you are in a position of responsibility and earn lots of money.

"The chicken is radiating disorder out into the wider universe."


#28 shipbuilder

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:51 PM

My Dad just turned 60.

Diagnosed as Diabetic about 7 years ago - taking increasing amount of medication, having more and more health problems as a result of diabetes.

The 'Diabetes Nurse' told him to eat a good helping of carbs with every meal. Doctor just gave him increasing numbers of pills. I had been trying in vain to get him to switch to a Paleo diet, but no luck.

Finally a few months back things declined to the point where he got scared enough to try Paleo. Lost a stone and a half in three months. Blood sugar better than it's been in 10 years. Just reduced the diabetes medication by half, with a view to reducing it further depending on how things go.

At 60, he is slimmer than I can ever remember. If he loses another half stone, he'll be the same weight he was on his wedding day 30 years ago. It took years of me telling him that the doctor/nurse were wrong; he didn't believe me for a long time.

Needless to say now he does!


My Dad's approaching 70 and has been a Type 1 Diabetic since his 20s and probably owes his life to advice from doctors on a number of occasions when he thought he knew better. Having said that, he nearly died because the disease was initially missed.
This isn't to challenge your opinion, merely to point out that for every negative story that we hear about the medical profession, there are many other positives, which people tend to forget.

To add more generally, as ChumpusRex has noted, doctors, from GPs to surgeons, are generally well aware of the role of prevention in healthcare - diet, excercise and lifestyle and it is the first thing that they will advise a patient on, so the frequent generalisations I read to the contrary are speculative nonsense, I'm afraid.
Unfortunately most people simply don't listen and in fact in most cases seem to actually want the pill because it is the easier option.

Edited by shipbuilder, 08 April 2012 - 09:53 PM.


#29 shipbuilder

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:57 PM

Trouble with quacks is that they are technocrats. They see everything in isolation, in laboratory conditions, and ignorant of other concerns.

Seems hardly a week goes by without the BMA calling for smoking to be fully criminalized (because obviously that works with other narcotics, prohibition of alcohol etc)

Ignoring the futility of it, what about freedom to do what i damn well please with my body.

Same with the Police. Sure they could get crime down if they had complete control in a police state, but i consider my privacy more important than living in a crime free world.
Same with the transport people. I know im more likely to die doing 80mph than 40mph, its a risk im happy to take.

Technocrats maybe scientifically correct. It doesnt mean they are 'right'


I completely agree with what your saying about individual freedom, however with an NHS, or even an insurance-based health system, you are effectively 'socialising your losses'.




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