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Amazon-7Bn Sales, No Uk Corporation Tax


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#16 daddybear

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:07 AM

There is an answer and it is quite simple

Scrap the existing tax system and move to LVT and VAT only

Then nothing escapes

Would never happen though because we would need 70% less tax inspectors and accountants and 40% less lawyers

#17 Saving For a Space Ship

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:26 AM

Added back in by popular demand.


Thanks, I've now outsourced my back room of oompa loompa 'creatives' to China, for not coming up with the subtitles quickly enough.


Amazon tax situation 'undermines UK High Street'


http://news.bbc.co.u...000/9711255.stm

Estimated 40 Million of tax dodged

#18 ParticleMan

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:07 AM

The Grauniad

Just out of interest, can anyone tell me what the basis of AMZN's (in particular, but the whole class of vampyric shell game players in general) claim on...

1/ UK land title
2/ UK policing and justice
3/ UK contract law

... is?

Reason I ask is given AMZN have effectively opted out of UK Inc, the left ought to be encouraging the rabble to go and take what they can from the warehouses (and carparks outside them, and trucks that supply them), encouraging AMZN's downstream consumers to participate in "settlement arbitrage" (ie selectively default on payment), encouraging AMZN's counterparties (and employees) to tear up their contracts, and encouraging the UK public sector to charge what the market (ie AMZN) will bear for any social good consumed (those private militias really cost a packet to run - I don't see any reason at all why the "local" constabularies can't price their service accordingly).

(the usual leftist editorial generally just leaves at least two thirds of the population wondering why they pony up their protection money to the racketeers)

Edited by ParticleMan, 06 April 2012 - 09:12 AM.


#19 tricksters

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

Scrap the existing tax system and move to LVT and VAT only
Then nothing escapes


Sounds a grim scenario. Think I would prefer to escape.

#20 Saving For a Space Ship

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

Just out of interest, can anyone tell me what the basis of AMZN's (in particular, but the whole class of vampyric shell game players in general) claim on...


Instead of a G.Sachs ' Giant Vampire Squid'. perhaps Amazon are more of a 'Giant Angler Fish' shining their online light into the Uk from distant Luxembourg (though arguably, resource-wise, shining it from China, where most stuff they sell is made)

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Edited by Saving For a Space Ship, 06 April 2012 - 09:48 AM.


#21 mfp123

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:19 AM

if the goods are stored and shipped from within the uk they should have to pay corporation tax on their activities within the country.

if they register in Luxembourg and ship from Luxembourg then they can take advantage of the tax break all they want.

so either they should move their activities or they must pay tax, other wise they are getting a competitive advantage on everyone else and at the same time contributing very little to the country.

#22 trevor_1977

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:10 PM

if the goods are stored and shipped from within the uk they should have to pay corporation tax on their activities within the country.

if they register in Luxembourg and ship from Luxembourg then they can take advantage of the tax break all they want.

so either they should move their activities or they must pay tax, other wise they are getting a competitive advantage on everyone else and at the same time contributing very little to the country.



Totally agree as they are getting an unfair advantage .

#23 easy2012

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

if the goods are stored and shipped from within the uk they should have to pay corporation tax on their activities within the country.

if they register in Luxembourg and ship from Luxembourg then they can take advantage of the tax break all they want.

so either they should move their activities or they must pay tax, other wise they are getting a competitive advantage on everyone else and at the same time contributing very little to the country.


But presumably a Luxembourg company, let say, washingmachinedirect who contract indesit in the UK to do all the warehouse and deliveries is ok. Mainly because the two companies do not have common owners. However, Amazon S.A.RL and Amazon.co.uk are technically two distinct companies and as long as the transaction are at arm length, it is exactly the same situation as washingmachinedirect.

I imagine Tesco can get away with such arrangements as well, people will order from Tesco.LU and then collect form Tesco stores in the UK who act as fufillment agents. Same applies to Argos etc.

There is a way to even things out - cut corporation tax to 0%....... (I have not quite consider what this mean to a big government, but that is for another day)..

#24 leigh delamere

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:12 PM

what's to stop, say, Tesco from 'relocating' to Luxembourg and classifying its UK stores as 'fulfillment' centres? Just asking!


I listened to a "File On Four" about this practice a while back, and according to the program Boots and Burger King already use similar accounting sleight of hand to shift profits to countries with lower tax rates.

Of course if you are a simple high-street butcher for example, HMRC have templates of how much profit you should be making and will simply issue you with a demand if they think you are under-declaring, which you then have to prove is incorrect at your own expense.

#25 winkie

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:19 PM

...he's not the problem...it's the people putting tax on warm pasties ...they are missing the serious tricks...not very bright...but we voted for them .... :rolleyes:




....the final straw.....the pasty tax.....people can only take so much, the ones with the least end up paying the most, even down to taxing the food out of their mouths. :rolleyes:
What you don't owe won't worry you.

Less can be more.

#26 JPJPJP

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

put the tax rates down to a level that attracts corp HQs here

- all those high paid jobs paying income tax, NI and then spending money here (instead of Lux / CH)
- bit of corp tax too

If UK doesn't do it soon, then it won't have a good infrastructure to do it even if tax rates went to 0

#27 MarkG

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:33 PM

If UK doesn't do it soon, then it won't have a good infrastructure to do it even if tax rates went to 0


Britain is screwed in no small part because it's full of idiots who think that corporations paying more tax will result in them paying less. In reality, if Amazon UK had to pay more tax, they would increase prices so their customers have to pay more; Amazon then becomes just a conduit to pick the pockets of ordinary Britons and hand the money to useless wasters in the government.

As you say, if you really want to increase the amount of tax you collect, you should cut corporate tax to zero and collect all that income tax, NI and VAT from the highly-paid jobs at the corporate HQs which would move there. But the idiot left only care about screwing over corporations, so it will never happen and few corporations would trust future governments not to do a bait-and-switch if it did.
"If the world operates as one big market, every employee will compete with every person anywhere in the world who is capable of doing the same job. There are lots of them and many of them are hungry." -- Andy Grove, Intel.

#28 Saving For a Space Ship

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:44 AM

Britain is screwed in no small part because it's full of idiots who think that corporations paying more tax will result in them paying less. In reality, if Amazon UK had to pay more tax, they would increase prices so their customers have to pay more; Amazon then becomes just a conduit to pick the pockets of ordinary Britons and hand the money to useless wasters in the government.

As you say, if you really want to increase the amount of tax you collect, you should cut corporate tax to zero and collect all that income tax, NI and VAT from the highly-paid jobs at the corporate HQs which would move there. But the idiot left only care about screwing over corporations, so it will never happen and few corporations would trust future governments not to do a bait-and-switch if it did.


Businesses charge the maximum prices the market will allow, they do not drop their prices because they are paying lower taxes.

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship, 07 April 2012 - 06:45 AM.


#29 MarkG

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

Businesses charge the maximum prices the market will allow, they do not drop their prices because they are paying lower taxes.


Yes, you're right. Companies will never, ever raise prices just because they're suddenly forced to hand over 25% of their profits to the government. How could I have been so stupid?
"If the world operates as one big market, every employee will compete with every person anywhere in the world who is capable of doing the same job. There are lots of them and many of them are hungry." -- Andy Grove, Intel.

#30 JPJPJP

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:04 AM

corporates are smart enough to work on the total tax burden, not just focus on corporation tax

and bosses are wise enough to realise their staff want a nice place to live and work

The UK has a real chance, for now, to reduce the total tax burden on companies and entice those that are considering tax efficient options to come here (or not to leave here).

I say again, if the infrastructure deteriorates much more, that chance will be much lower.

FWIW on rates, I would go for 11% corp tax, 40% total employment tax (employer + employee) on anything over the first 12k (which would be fully tax free).

Would it work? Probably with a bit of tweaking.




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