Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Estonian Public Transport To Be Made Free


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#1 plnouparouvpred

plnouparouvpred

    HPC Poster

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

Tallinn city administration has claimed that the official decision will have to be made in September and the public transport will become free in January 2013

Estonia’s budget surplus widened to 1 percent of gross domestic product last year, compared with 0.2 percent in 2010, Public debt relative to economic output grew to 6 percent from 5.8 percent a year earlier, the office said.

link



#2 thecrashingisles

thecrashingisles

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,148 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:18 PM

Tallinn city administration has claimed that the official decision will have to be made in September and the public transport will become free in January 2013


The things which are possible when you have a competent government!

#3 DeepLurker

DeepLurker

    HPC Senior Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,667 posts
  • Location:Snorbans ("we are considerably richer than you")

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:31 PM

The things which are possible when you have a competent government!

Just to be 100% clear: was that intended as sarcasm?
Food, shelter; both are basic necessities of life.
If you call out for cheaper food, you are a saint.
If you call out for cheaper shelter, you are ostracised, ridiculed, even your partners and family feel slightly ashamed of you.

#4 thecrashingisles

thecrashingisles

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,148 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

Just to be 100% clear: was that intended as sarcasm?


No. A budget surplus and low public debt makes it possible for governments to do things that would be unimaginable to a country in our position.

#5 Dorkins

Dorkins

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,628 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:45 PM

Doesn't seem like a great idea. People will just overconsume public transport. I see the consequences of all-you-can-eat travelcards in London all the time: people flag down buses carrying 50+ people in order to travel one stop, sometimes less than 100m. Total waste of other people's time and fossil fuel energy, but such is human nature!

#6 Nationalist

Nationalist

    HPC Senior Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

I have occasionally wondered what the costs of making the trains free in the UK would be. They are already heavily subsidised - so if you make them free you (1) lose the ticket revenue, and (2) save the costs of running ticket offices, barriers, inspectors, enforcement etc. I wonder what the money gap would be if you closed that lot down, and if it wouldn't just be worth the government stepping in and saying we'll hand over the extra £X billion for general convenience.

#7 pilchardthecat

pilchardthecat

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,542 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:00 PM

Free petrol for everyone too?
-------
My new blog

#8 Timak

Timak

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,225 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:21 PM

Don't regard these figures as being realistic but lets just think:

The local train costs £1000 an hour to run
There are 10 trains an hour and they are filled at 30% capacity on average
They run on a timetable so go when they are scheduled to not when they are filled
Fees from passengers bring in £1000 an hour after cost of collection is taken into account

If it were made free:
Same costs of £1000 an hour
Same number of trains
But number of users doubles with 60% of spaces filled on the average train
However there is a net income less of £1000 an hour per train to the city

So in order for it to make sense for it to be free:
The costs to the city associated with other forms of transport - road maintenance etc - would have to come down
The extra money in commuters pockets would have to be spent in the local businesses and be clawed back into the city's coffers by replacement fees/taxes to ensure it is fiscally neutral
___________________________________________________________________________________________________The correct answer to every statement is "It's a little bit more complicated than that"

#9 corevalue

corevalue

    HPC Senior Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,741 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:53 PM

it might reduce the balance of trade due to the lowering of oil imports, and thus be beneficial to the government; however, they'd lose a huge amount of tax revenue from fuel sales. Guess it would never happen here then.
When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

#10 scrappycocco

scrappycocco

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,204 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

I have occasionally wondered what the costs of making the trains free in the UK would be. They are already heavily subsidised - so if you make them free you (1) lose the ticket revenue, and (2) save the costs of running ticket offices, barriers, inspectors, enforcement etc. I wonder what the money gap would be if you closed that lot down, and if it wouldn't just be worth the government stepping in and saying we'll hand over the extra £X billion for general convenience.


as if a union is going to allow this lol.....

#11 LiveAndLetBuy

LiveAndLetBuy

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,334 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:13 PM

I have occasionally wondered what the costs of making the trains free in the UK would be. They are already heavily subsidised - so if you make them free you (1) lose the ticket revenue, and (2) save the costs of running ticket offices, barriers, inspectors, enforcement etc. I wonder what the money gap would be if you closed that lot down, and if it wouldn't just be worth the government stepping in and saying we'll hand over the extra £X billion for general convenience.


Rather than doing away with fees altogether I think there's probably some optimal fee that is low enough that 99% of the people are prepared to pay it regardless, so you can get away with only having automated barriers and a metro-style zoned fare system. That way you can still heavily reduce ticketing costs, while still getting some revenue.

It's just a pity that any spare cash that ends up in people's pockets will immediately be absorbed by a corresponding increase in house prices.

#12 Voice of Reason

Voice of Reason

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:22 PM

The Estonians have apparently done really well in recent years moving to a free market economy. This doesn't seem very free market on face value, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt but I'd love to know what the reasoning is behind it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#13 SarahBell

SarahBell

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,080 posts
  • Location:Mars.

Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:34 PM

Doesn't seem like a great idea. People will just overconsume public transport. I see the consequences of all-you-can-eat travelcards in London all the time: people flag down buses carrying 50+ people in order to travel one stop, sometimes less than 100m. Total waste of other people's time and fossil fuel energy, but such is human nature!


Don't kids travel free in London?
Whoever you are, I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

#14 darwin

darwin

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,289 posts
  • Location:West London

Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:42 PM

Don't kids travel free in London?

Yes

#15 TheBlueCat

TheBlueCat

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,690 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:04 PM

The Estonians have apparently done really well in recent years moving to a free market economy. This doesn't seem very free market on face value, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt but I'd love to know what the reasoning is behind it.

Might simply be that they think it costs as much to collect fares as they get back? Also note that Tallin only has 400K people living there, so comparisons with somewhere like London don't really work.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users