[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

mfs1959, on 25 March 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

If their wages go up will fuel follow?

Their wages make up about 0.01% of the cost of fuel.

The Dude, on 25 March 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

You'd best get ready for anarchy then. Make sure you have plenty of guns. Find yourself a cave to defend in.

+1 It's not just about fuel for people popping to the shops. It's everyone who works. Doctors, teachers, shelf stackers, power-station workers, airport staff, checkout operators, along with all the back office staff for those operations - for example, with the pickers in the warehouses picking parts for the cars for the workers who work at the warehouse picking medicines to send to pharmacies etc etc.

Most jobs that are "essential" are done by people who need fuel to travel to work.

All jobs are "essential" else no-one would pay to have them done - with the exception of those in the houses of Parliament and Lords and many quangos. Take away any other group of employees and within a month the country would have serious problems.

AThirdWay, on 26 March 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

To be fair, the TA have come on in leaps and bounds since I left the army 11+ years ago, and the standard of their Cat. C drivers was good even then.

Due to over-commitment of the armed forced by the government, the TA are pretty much being treated like the regular army - particularly where TA members are skilled or semi-skilled, for example, Doctors, mechanics and engineers.

[Andy D]

AThirdWay, on 26 March 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Are you suggesting these drivers don't earn their £45k pa?

It always amuses me when workers demand a bit extra, and the sheeple go off and one. Have you seen the trend of wealth distribution in this country?

Nope but it undermines the unions claim that "According to union officials, fracturing the industry into a patchwork of smaller suppliers is leading to a lowering of standards and pay." - http://www.guardian....l-tanker-strike

In other reports the union are saying it's not about pay...

Unite are just shit stirring in my view, if you've got a complaint with your employer go on strike but when unions encourage workers from multiple companies all to go on strike then perhaps we should start applying anti-competitive behaviour laws to them...

[porca misèria]

deflation, on 26 March 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

However, some drivers at firms have had long established ironclad wage increase contracts that are not reasonable any more. I hear Wincanton tanker drivers are on £16 per hour! If they don't change their terms and conditions, the companies will be undercut by other firms and job losses will follow instead.

Wincanton fell out of the FTSE 250 two or three years back (around the same time Stobart was promoted into it). By that measure, not a company that's prospering.

[Longinthetooth]

Can't help but think the government is expecting some wider general public discontent (don't, for the life of me, understand why!) and this is a first warning shot across the bows. It also disguises training for a wider potential army role should the population have the turmerity to start standing up to say enough is enough.

[bomberbrown]

Ruffneck said:

1332678131[/url]' post='908999617']
get the soldiers to drive trains as well , the train drivers are holding the UK to ransom right now

+1

[fluffy666]

Longinthetooth, on 26 March 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Can't help but think the government is expecting some wider general public discontent (don't, for the life of me, understand why!) and this is a first warning shot across the bows. It also disguises training for a wider potential army role should the population have the turmerity to start standing up to say enough is enough.

If you look at what happened after a couple of days of riots.. they wanted the army on the streets almost straight away.

[SeeYouNextTuesday]

fluffy666, on 26 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

If you look at what happened after a couple of days of riots.. they wanted the army on the streets almost straight away.

Who's they? The government or the people?

[fluffy666]

SeeYouNextTuesday, on 26 March 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Who's they? The government or the people?

The government. I don't think that the majority of 'the people' were that bothered..

[SeeYouNextTuesday]

fluffy666, on 26 March 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

The government. I don't think that the majority of 'the people' were that bothered..

Really? That's not how I recall sentiment from the time.

[AThirdWay]

Andy D, on 26 March 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

Nope but it undermines the unions claim that "According to union officials, fracturing the industry into a patchwork of smaller suppliers is leading to a lowering of standards and pay." - http://www.guardian....l-tanker-strike

In other reports the union are saying it's not about pay...

Unite are just shit stirring in my view, if you've got a complaint with your employer go on strike but when unions encourage workers from multiple companies all to go on strike then perhaps we should start applying anti-competitive behaviour laws to them...

What other reports? The two links I have read mention quotes about cuts in conditions, training and safety. All of these are legitimate reasons for concern as far as I'm concerned. Commercial drivers face a rising challenge every day on the road as traffic gets heavier and the infrastructure collapses under the pressure. More training and greater safety standards should be applied in the face of this, not less.

As for multiple companies going on strike, what did you expect? They face the same challenges every day. This gives them a camaraderie that you don't seem to understand.

This post has been edited by AThirdWay: 26 March 2012 - 01:11 PM

[MongerOfDoom]

RufflesTheGuineaPig, on 26 March 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Their wages make up about 0.01% of the cost of fuel.

If a driver spends 5 hours delivering 10 tonnes of fuel, I make that £80 in direct wage cost (assuming the £16/hour someone had mentioned), and say £40 for NI and benefits. So that is somewhere in the region of 1p a liter?

Maybe we can all become wealthy by paying just a little bit extra for everything?

[geezer466]

Britain will still descend into chaos....

If and it's a very big if as these things always seem to be worked out beforehand there is a strike then there is no where near enough trained army drivers to maintain distribution at current levels.

There will be a designated fuel station in every district where KEY Workers only will be able to purchase fuel.

If you are asking yourself if this is you then you don't qualify.

At the 2000 bash they got so far as nominating the fuel stations and printing the ration cards. As I was then a key worker (not now though) my employer was asked to submit our names to a central database.

Edit to add: News is breaking now that the vote is for a strike...... Now the horsetrading begins.

This post has been edited by geezer466: 26 March 2012 - 03:01 PM

[fluffy666]

geezer466, on 26 March 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Britain will still descend into chaos....

If and it's a very big if as these things always seem to be worked out beforehand there is a strike then there is no where near enough trained army drivers to maintain distribution at current levels.

There will be a designated fuel station in every district where KEY Workers only will be able to purchase fuel.

If you are asking yourself if this is you then you don't qualify.

At the 2000 bash they got so far as nominating the fuel stations and printing the ration cards. As I was then a key worker (not now though) my employer was asked to submit our names to a central database.

Edit to add: News is breaking now that the vote is for a strike...... Now the horsetrading begins.

Interesting thing is that available stocks (i.e. filling station tanks) are perhaps half of what we had in 2000, or even less, due to station closures and stations keeping tanks less full so save on carrying costs.

[SarahBell]

geezer466, on 26 March 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

At the 2000 bash they got so far as nominating the fuel stations and printing the ration cards. As I was then a key worker (not now though) my employer was asked to submit our names to a central database.

Edit to add: News is breaking now that the vote is for a strike...... Now the horsetrading begins.

So who'll get a ration? Everyone or just the essentials?

[MongerOfDoom]

geezer466, on 26 March 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Britain will still descend into chaos....

there is no where near enough trained army drivers to maintain distribution at current levels.

How could you possibly know that? I expect there were people saying "there is no way there is enough stockpiled coal to keep the power on for longer than we can last before starving", indeed some were willing to bet rather a lot on it. Yet it somehow turned out there was plenty and more could be imported.

It is reasonable to expect they will let any strike hurt for a few days so that any public support has time to evaporate. But if it becomes a matter of principle then I rather suspect the government are competent enough to distribute fuel without the striking drivers.