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This isn't for me but been asked elsewhere.
Someone has a HMO AST running till July. Landlord wants to build an extension in May! I advised person that this does not constitute "quiet enjoyment" and landlord should be told to jog on. Tenant wants to be able to leave AST early if work goes ahead.
What I want to know is what are your options if the landlord ignores his obligations and ploughs on regardless? I doubt you can withold rent or just leave (cancel contract) but what other redress do you have if the landlord is an ****?
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Options When Landlord Wants To Do Building Work
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#1
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#2
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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:46 AM
SeeYouNextTuesday, on 23 March 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:
This isn't for me but been asked elsewhere.
Someone has a HMO AST running till July. Landlord wants to build an extension in May! I advised person that this does not constitute "quiet enjoyment" and landlord should be told to jog on. Tenant wants to be able to leave AST early if work goes ahead.
What I want to know is what are your options if the landlord ignores his obligations and ploughs on regardless? I doubt you can withold rent or just leave (cancel contract) but what other redress do you have if the landlord is an ****?
Someone has a HMO AST running till July. Landlord wants to build an extension in May! I advised person that this does not constitute "quiet enjoyment" and landlord should be told to jog on. Tenant wants to be able to leave AST early if work goes ahead.
What I want to know is what are your options if the landlord ignores his obligations and ploughs on regardless? I doubt you can withold rent or just leave (cancel contract) but what other redress do you have if the landlord is an ****?
Sorry, quiet enjoyment doesn't mean what you think it means.
If the LL building whatever doesn't stop the tenant from using whatever part of the building he is contractually allowed to use, then the LL can do what the flip he likes with the rest of the building.
Obviously it isn't on for him to be doing building work in the middle of the night but M-S, 8-6 is perfectly acceptable.
#3
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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:51 PM
tim123, on 24 March 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:
Sorry, quiet enjoyment doesn't mean what you think it means.
If the LL building whatever doesn't stop the tenant from using whatever part of the building he is contractually allowed to use, then the LL can do what the flip he likes with the rest of the building.
Obviously it isn't on for him to be doing building work in the middle of the night but M-S, 8-6 is perfectly acceptable.
If the LL building whatever doesn't stop the tenant from using whatever part of the building he is contractually allowed to use, then the LL can do what the flip he likes with the rest of the building.
Obviously it isn't on for him to be doing building work in the middle of the night but M-S, 8-6 is perfectly acceptable.
******** that was a word beginning in bull, ending in shit.
You must allow contractors access to the house?
This post has been edited by SeeYouNextTuesday: 24 March 2012 - 05:52 PM
#4
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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:43 PM
Need to read up the tenancy agreement imo.
Cit advice.
Either way, you should cover yourself with various letters, photos and meter readings.
Cit advice.
Either way, you should cover yourself with various letters, photos and meter readings.
The views expressed in my posts are my own based upon what I read on other information supplied by other HPC members.
These should not be used a a definitive answer to any posts I attempt to answer.
These should not be used a a definitive answer to any posts I attempt to answer.
#5
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:54 AM
tim123, on 24 March 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:
Sorry, quiet enjoyment doesn't mean what you think it means.
If the LL building whatever doesn't stop the tenant from using whatever part of the building he is contractually allowed to use, then the LL can do what the flip he likes with the rest of the building.
Obviously it isn't on for him to be doing building work in the middle of the night but M-S, 8-6 is perfectly acceptable.
If the LL building whatever doesn't stop the tenant from using whatever part of the building he is contractually allowed to use, then the LL can do what the flip he likes with the rest of the building.
Obviously it isn't on for him to be doing building work in the middle of the night but M-S, 8-6 is perfectly acceptable.
The landlord may only enter to do repairs that are necessary with an ordinary agreement.
This is an HMO so seek legal advice....I suspect the rights are the same.
WARNING
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
#6
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:10 PM
If it is an HMO the LL may enter communal areas regardless. If the work is to be done to areas which the tenant does not have exclusive access to then the LL may proceed at reasonable times. Only if work is to be done to the tenants rooms would he require cooperation. Ofcourse if the LL were to do work that were to deprive the tenant of the use of the property as a dwelling then that is something else. IMHO IANAL.
I'd try negotiating with him on the basis that I can be a difficult barsteward if I like, "want the work done without visits from HSE, HMRC, police etc-let me out of the contract"
I'd try negotiating with him on the basis that I can be a difficult barsteward if I like, "want the work done without visits from HSE, HMRC, police etc-let me out of the contract"
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
#7
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:54 PM
zebbedee, on 27 March 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:
If it is an HMO the LL may enter communal areas regardless.snip
is that right?
Surely if the landlord can enter, then so can anyone else off the street.
WARNING
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
#8
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:23 PM
Bloo Loo, on 27 March 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:
is that right?
Surely if the landlord can enter, then so can anyone else off the street.
Surely if the landlord can enter, then so can anyone else off the street.
If the LL has had any sense then yes-theyll have let the room to the tenant and use of communal area but not exclusive to the detriment of LL rights to those areas.
When a LL may not enter is if they have let the whole of the dwelling to the tenants but this would be unusual for an HMO as the LL has responsibilities for enduring the cleanliness and safety of the communal areas and would in normal curcumastances keep access to these for cleaning etc.
Flat shares would be different as the whole of the dwelling will be let to the tenants individually and collectively, so for access even to say a garden the LL would require permission from the tenants.
Edit for but not yes anyone off the street, the LL has rights (and responsibilities) over communal areas, Joe from the street doesn't.
This post has been edited by zebbedee: 27 March 2012 - 02:27 PM
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:03 PM
zebbedee, on 27 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:
If the LL has had any sense then yes-theyll have let the room to the tenant and use of communal area but not exclusive to the detriment of LL rights to those areas.
When a LL may not enter is if they have let the whole of the dwelling to the tenants but this would be unusual for an HMO as the LL has responsibilities for enduring the cleanliness and safety of the communal areas and would in normal curcumastances keep access to these for cleaning etc.
Flat shares would be different as the whole of the dwelling will be let to the tenants individually and collectively, so for access even to say a garden the LL would require permission from the tenants.
Edit for but not yes anyone off the street, the LL has rights (and responsibilities) over communal areas, Joe from the street doesn't.
When a LL may not enter is if they have let the whole of the dwelling to the tenants but this would be unusual for an HMO as the LL has responsibilities for enduring the cleanliness and safety of the communal areas and would in normal curcumastances keep access to these for cleaning etc.
Flat shares would be different as the whole of the dwelling will be let to the tenants individually and collectively, so for access even to say a garden the LL would require permission from the tenants.
Edit for but not yes anyone off the street, the LL has rights (and responsibilities) over communal areas, Joe from the street doesn't.
heres a link from Landlord zone on just this topic
http://www.landlordz...-communal-areas
WARNING
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
#10
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:08 PM
AFAIK this is a student share and as a student I always let on a house basis rather than rooms.
No locks on doors etc, unlike when I later lived in a full on HMO.
No locks on doors etc, unlike when I later lived in a full on HMO.
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:22 PM
SeeYouNextTuesday, on 27 March 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:
AFAIK this is a student share and as a student I always let on a house basis rather than rooms.
No locks on doors etc, unlike when I later lived in a full on HMO.
No locks on doors etc, unlike when I later lived in a full on HMO.
If it is an HMO and the LL has reserved rights over communal areas then there's not a lot the tenant can do so long as the LL carries out the work at reasonable times and does not deprive the tenant what they are paying rent for. If either do not apply then police/council/keep the builders out at the LL cost (but be very sure of your own grounding if you do that or it could end up your cost)
If its a shared house then the LL may not enter without prior consent (but that may come from one of the others living there and need only be from one of them) and neither may his representatives (the builders), any attempt to do so would be a matter for the police to deal with assuming they attempt to foce entry. The locks may be changed so long as they are changed back prior to returning possession of the house, the LL will never know if they do not try to enter without permission. If they were to try and broke your locks in the process they would have to make reparations. Don't change locks to communal areas of HMO's.
It is probably an HMO as the law makes it one when there are so many people living together who are not related, if a student gaff there may not be provision in the agreement that the LL reserves access and you/they should read the agreement carefully. You never know the LL may have just whacked off a standard agreement which could include all sorts they have not doen (cleaning communal areas anyone) in which case it has been paid for and not provided and could be used as a lever to secure release from the contract-threat of small claims anyone?
This post has been edited by zebbedee: 27 March 2012 - 03:26 PM
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
#12
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:33 PM
zebbedee, on 27 March 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:
If it is an HMO and the LL has reserved rights over communal areas then there's not a lot the tenant can do so long as the LL carries out the work at reasonable times and does not deprive the tenant what they are paying rent for. If either do not apply then police/council/keep the builders out at the LL cost (but be very sure of your own grounding if you do that or it could end up your cost)
If its a shared house then the LL may not enter without prior consent (but that may come from one of the others living there and need only be from one of them) and neither may his representatives (the builders), any attempt to do so would be a matter for the police to deal with assuming they attempt to foce entry. The locks may be changed so long as they are changed back prior to returning possession of the house, the LL will never know if they do not try to enter without permission. If they were to try and broke your locks in the process they would have to make reparations. Don't change locks to communal areas of HMO's.
It is probably an HMO as the law makes it one when there are so many people living together who are not related, if a student gaff there may not be provision in the agreement that the LL reserves access and you/they should read the agreement carefully. You never know the LL may have just whacked off a standard agreement which could include all sorts they have not doen (cleaning communal areas anyone) in which case it has been paid for and not provided and could be used as a lever to secure release from the contract-threat of small claims anyone?
If its a shared house then the LL may not enter without prior consent (but that may come from one of the others living there and need only be from one of them) and neither may his representatives (the builders), any attempt to do so would be a matter for the police to deal with assuming they attempt to foce entry. The locks may be changed so long as they are changed back prior to returning possession of the house, the LL will never know if they do not try to enter without permission. If they were to try and broke your locks in the process they would have to make reparations. Don't change locks to communal areas of HMO's.
It is probably an HMO as the law makes it one when there are so many people living together who are not related, if a student gaff there may not be provision in the agreement that the LL reserves access and you/they should read the agreement carefully. You never know the LL may have just whacked off a standard agreement which could include all sorts they have not doen (cleaning communal areas anyone) in which case it has been paid for and not provided and could be used as a lever to secure release from the contract-threat of small claims anyone?
I used HMO on the basis that it is a few adults living in a house and coming under that legislation rather than the sort of rent a room agrrements you are referring to. Student shares, I assumed, are still done on a house basis. It was when I were a lad. Use of house and garden and havign to keep them tidy. How can you sign a tenancy for use of the house and the garden or yard or drive or whatever and then the landlord think he can just build on it?
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:40 PM
SeeYouNextTuesday, on 27 March 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:
I used HMO on the basis that it is a few adults living in a house and coming under that legislation rather than the sort of rent a room agrrements you are referring to. Student shares, I assumed, are still done on a house basis. It was when I were a lad. Use of house and garden and havign to keep them tidy. How can you sign a tenancy for use of the house and the garden or yard or drive or whatever and then the landlord think he can just build on it?
It may or may not be an HMO and may or may not require licensing and it may or may not have LL access rights in the agreements Did they sign individual agreements and what do they say. It really turns on whether the LL has reserved rights over and above 24 hours notice for inspection etc.
http://www.direct.go...dards/DG_189200
http://www.spareroom.../info-faq/HMOs/
http://hmolandlady.wordpress.com/
This post has been edited by zebbedee: 27 March 2012 - 03:48 PM
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:36 AM
This surprises me as how does it all work with insurance?
What if a tenant was injured due to the work , I doubt the landlords insurance for the building work would be in place if tenants were in situ but I am not too sure.
What if a tenant was injured due to the work , I doubt the landlords insurance for the building work would be in place if tenants were in situ but I am not too sure.
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