[skomer]

http://www.guardian....-fiscal-compact

Ireland will be the first country in the eurozone to give a democratic verdict on the German-backed rules for the single currency after Dublin announced it would hold a referendum on the treaty.

The euro declined on foreign exchanges after the Irish prime minister Enda Kenny told the Dáil that the Republic's chief law officer had advised the cabinet that "on balance" a referendum should be held under the terms of the Irish constitution.

Kenny is now expected to fight for concessions from Brussels on the terms of Ireland's swingeing euro bailout as the price for heading off a potentially embarrassing electoral rejection of the "fiscal compact" tightening rules for the 17 eurozone members.

Ireland, which has twice rejected EU treaties, must hold a referendum on any international treaty that has an impact on the country's sovereignty. The plebiscite on the EU fiscal compact would have to be held by Easter and by June at the latest.

The taoiseach said: "It gives the Irish people the opportunity to reaffirm Ireland's commitment to membership of the euro, which remains a fundamental pillar of our economic and jobs strategy. More binding and enforceable fiscal rules as a result of ratification will be good for both Ireland and the wider eurozone, and will cement growing international confidence in Ireland's recovery."

Neil Mellor, of the bank BNY Mellon, said Dublin's announcement raised fresh doubts about the future of the single currency, even before the latest bailout for Greece has been released. "It's death by a thousand cuts," he said.

[R K]

When G-Pap announced a referendum Merkozy removed him and installed their own Viceroy.

If it looks like a 'No' (and it does on recent polling) he'll be out.

[wonderpup]

Interesting how democracy is now a clear and present danger to the European Project- if I ever get a chance to vote against it in any way shape or form I will do so.

And I was firmly pro EU until I saw the Germans in action against the Greeks- I hope they choke on it.

Whatever the EU is it has nothing to with the well being of the ordinary people of Europe.

This post has been edited by wonderpup: 28 February 2012 - 08:00 PM

[georgia o'keeffe]

wonderpup, on 28 February 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Interesting how democracy is now a clear and present danger to the European Project- if I ever get a chance to vote against it in any way shape or form I will do so.

And I was firmly pro EU until I saw the Germans in action against the Greeks- I hope they choke on it.

Whatever the EU is it has nothing to with the well being of the ordinary people of Europe.

i thought it would still be your wet dream, regulation squared, central planning, apparatchiks, forced wealth redistribution, nothings actually changed apart from money running out

[57percent]

Red Knight, on 28 February 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

When G-Pap announced a referendum Merkozy removed him and installed their own Viceroy.

If it looks like a 'No' (and it does on recent polling) he'll be out.

Will be very interesting to see where this goes. I'd be surprised if Ireland said 'yes' .... but what then??

[LetsGetReadyToTumble]

57percent, on 28 February 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Will be very interesting to see where this goes. I'd be surprised if Ireland said 'yes' .... but what then??

Where's our referendum? I cannot believe we have given our democracy away without a vote, and we Brits are sitting on our a r s e s doing nothing about it.

[Monkey]

this could get very interesting

[wonderpup]

Quote

i thought it would still be your wet dream, regulation squared, central planning, apparatchiks, forced wealth redistribution, nothings actually changed apart from money running out

The EU had a choice to make in Greece- save the people or save the banks- they chose the banks.

And that will be their undoing.

[GreenWarwick]

Monkey, on 28 February 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

this could get very interesting

Well, I'll have a vote on it...although as my NO "votes" on lisbon didn't amount to much I'm wondering if it's worth the effort....

[georgia o'keeffe]

wonderpup, on 28 February 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

The EU had a choice to make in Greece- save the people or save the banks- they chose the banks.

And that will be their undoing.

No its actually Greeces choice, they can leave the EU tomorrow if they want, never had to join, could have left any time, its entirely up to the population, they either want to or they dont and if their politicians have other ideas then they deal with them, its always been Greeces choice but just like you it seems they put too much faith in their politicians actually giving a toss about the people they were supposedly representing (dont laugh) and in this case Greece, next year someone else, in a few years someone else, theyve all just been running a large degree debt cycle and the beauty of these rare events is that they show politicians up for what they actually are in the wider scheme of things, irrelevant and fundamentally unnecessary, countries are made up of people, wealth is created by people acting, not politicians, politicians are no more or less than modern societies parasites redistributing to them and their friends the whole multi decadal cycle but noone gives a toss until the debt cycle runs its course and quelle suprise currency union in Europe once again goes exactly the same way as every other attempted major currency union in Europe when the debt cycle ends (its not like this hasnt been tried before going in to the top of debt cycles going back throughout Europes chequered and bloody history), down the sh!tter of social deterioration all created by politicians selling their country out in the name of vanity, money and Power

This post has been edited by Tamara De Lempicka: 28 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

[interestrateripoff]

So how many referendums will they hold until they finally vote yes?

[okaycuckoo]

Prediction: the Irish will horsetrade and pass the referendum.

Been following this since the Irish vote on the SEA in 1986. I bet the referendum proposition will have a rider about future referendums ie. Irish fiscal authority to be subjugated to EU commission control - but debt to be written off, or at least Germany to assume payment of unsecured bondholders in Irish banks. Something crude.

Won't do much for employment or house prices, but public sector has already taken a big hit, benefits will be paid, and voters will evade tax like their fathers did in the 1970s.

[Deckard]

okaycuckoo, on 28 February 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Prediction: the Irish will horsetrade and pass the referendum.

+1

I bet secret negotiations with EUSSRO authorities are already in full swing

[OnlyMe]

Tamara De Lempicka, on 28 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

No its actually Greeces choice, they can leave the EU tomorrow if they want, never had to join, could have left any time, its entirely up to the population, they either want to or they dont and if their politicians have other ideas then they deal with them, its always been Greeces choice but just like you it seems they put too much faith in their politicians actually giving a toss about the people they were supposedly representing (dont laugh) and in this case Greece, next year someone else, in a few years someone else, theyve all just been running a large degree debt cycle and the beauty of these rare events is that they show politicians up for what they actually are in the wider scheme of things, irrelevant and fundamentally unnecessary, countries are made up of people, wealth is created by people acting, not politicians, politicians are no more or less than modern societies parasites redistributing to them and their friends the whole multi decadal cycle but noone gives a toss until the debt cycle runs its course and quelle suprise currency union in Europe once again goes exactly the same way as every other attempted major currency union in Europe when the debt cycle ends (its not like this hasnt been tried before going in to the top of debt cycles going back throughout Europes chequered and bloody history), down the sh!tter of social deterioration all created by politicians selling their country out in the name of vanity, money and Power

They were going to have a a vote on leaving weren't they?

A few days later the prime minister was outsted and the bankers parachuted in.

[georgia o'keeffe]

OnlyMe, on 28 February 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

They were going to have a a vote on leaving weren't they?

A few days later the prime minister was outsted and the bankers parachuted in.

and the Greeks accepted it, like i say its Greeces choice

This post has been edited by Tamara De Lempicka: 28 February 2012 - 10:00 PM