[leicestersq]

M, on 24 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Yeah, cos more taxes are better than less taxes

Yes, it is true. Taxes on smoking for example, have discouraged people from smoking and extended the lives of many people. Likewise a tax on parking will encourage people to live closer to where they work, and to walk and cycle, making them fitter and healthier.

On the other side of the equation, tax pays for things like schools and roads and hospitals, which we are all glad of.

[tomandlu]

gadget, on 24 February 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Oh do stop moaning. Do you realise how much the prime city-center real-estate taken up by your car is worth?

They're taxing parking, which is avoidable, not air.....

"Free" parking is actually an enormous government subsisdy. The homes or businesses that could be there instead of enormous car parks would be taxed, so why not the car parks?

As I said, a minor example (my particular bug-bears are the 'traps' that councils build - cameras pointing at badly laid out 'bus-only' junctions and so on). But I think you're missing the point - to describe it as a subsidy on the basis of the value of something that doesn't exist seems odd, but lets assume they replace all the car-parks with offices which people can't then make use of since there's nowhere to park - how does that work?

Aside from that the point I'm making which you don't seem to get is that you can keep on extracting money from people, but that's then money they can't spend elsewhere. So... you've just charged people on the basis of something that doesn't exist, thus removing money that would have been spent on goods bought from a shop - i.e. an existing business.

Do you work for a council by any chance?

[gf3]

My concern is that people will park on the roads outside work and walk. I can see loads of cars parked on main trunk roads. and the works car park empty.

[M'lud]

leicestersq, on 24 February 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Yes, it is true. Taxes on smoking for example, have discouraged people from smoking and extended the lives of many people. Likewise a tax on parking will encourage people to live closer to where they work, and to walk and cycle, making them fitter and healthier.

On the other side of the equation, tax pays for things like schools and roads and hospitals, which we are all glad of.

Utter tosh
HOw will a tax on parking encourage people to live closeer to work? Not many people can chose where to work and chose where to live

I'm not saying all taxes per se are wrong, - like you say schools & hospitals, but taxing something just because you can leads to the empire building that councils are infamous for. They're doing this because they are skint, if they ever balance their books, you think they'll end this tax? No, they'll just find something else to spunk the money away on.

and Why do people need to be taxed so as to behave to extend their lives - it is their choice

more taxes are not a good thing - think about it

[cheeznbreed]

gadget, on 24 February 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Oh do stop moaning. Do you realise how much the prime city-center real-estate taken up by your car is worth?

They're taxing parking, which is avoidable, not air.....

"Free" parking is actually an enormous government subsisdy. The homes or businesses that could be there instead of enormous car parks would be taxed, so why not the car parks?

Not this again.

I presume the car parks are not taxed because no income is levied from them, just as a business which accrues no net income is not subject to corporation tax.. I'm not sure that's a great controversy.

Motorists pay a Vehicle excise duty for the privelidge of being able to put their car on public highways, it is not fair to say that the use of a public highway for parking is 'an enourmous subsidy'.

At the end of the day, if you fancy making it more difficult for people to get to a job, don't be surprised when the jobs go elsewhere. Government ought to be making it as easy as possible for people to get to jobs instead of putting obstacles in the way.

[cheeznbreed]

M, on 24 February 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Utter tosh
HOw will a tax on parking encourage people to live closeer to work? Not many people can chose where to work and chose where to live

I'm not saying all taxes per se are wrong, - like you say schools & hospitals, but taxing something just because you can leads to the empire building that councils are infamous for. They're doing this because they are skint, if they ever balance their books, you think they'll end this tax? No, they'll just find something else to spunk the money away on.

and Why do people need to be taxed so as to behave to extend their lives - it is their choice

more taxes are not a good thing - think about it

Unfortunately, for some, tax revenue is ALWAYS a bit too low.

[LetsGetReadyToTumble]

gadget, on 24 February 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Oh do stop moaning. Do you realise how much the prime city-center real-estate taken up by your car is worth?

They're taxing parking, which is avoidable, not air.....

"Free" parking is actually an enormous government subsisdy. The homes or businesses that could be there instead of enormous car parks would be taxed, so why not the car parks?

It's part of the employment infrastructure.
You'll be taxing the toilets next.

[Ungeared]

LetsGetReadyToTumble, on 24 February 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

It's part of the employment infrastructure.
You'll be taxing the toilets next.

They do, 20 pence for a pee in Devizes

[MrPin]

LetsGetReadyToTumble, on 24 February 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

It's part of the employment infrastructure.
You'll be taxing the toilets next.

Having a crap at work is a taxable benefit!

Having worked in Bristol, I used to take the bus or walk it. It is congested. I honestly wouldn't like to have to drive into Bristol for work.

I disagree with this new proposal however!

[gadget]

cheeznbreed, on 24 February 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I presume the car parks are not taxed because no income is levied from them, just as a business which accrues no net income is not subject to corporation tax.. I'm not sure that's a great controversy.

I wasn't talking about income or corporation tax.

I was talking about council tax and business rates. Paid regardless of income.

You can argue about taxes being too high or too low but as to whether x or y should be taxed i think driving is a better thing to be taxed than most.

It has big external costs. Even to other drivers (congestion). Possibbly even more than smoking i'd say (where the costs are mostly born by the smoker) Now driving is already taxed pretty heavily so maybe this extra £1 a day tips it over the edge i dunno. But to say it's an outrage that parking is going to be taxed...

[Ungeared]

MrPin, on 24 February 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Having a crap at work is a taxable benefit!

Having worked in Bristol, I used to take the bus or walk it. It is congested. I honestly wouldn't like to have to drive into Bristol for work.

I disagree with this new proposal however!

I await the next squeeze

[oligotroph]

not a problem if you work for a large public sector employer, just make sure you drive to a different office every other day and claim it all back on expenses!

[gadget]

tomandlu, on 24 February 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

As I said, a minor example (my particular bug-bears are the 'traps' that councils build - cameras pointing at badly laid out 'bus-only' junctions and so on). But I think you're missing the point - to describe it as a subsidy on the basis of the value of something that doesn't exist seems odd, but lets assume they replace all the car-parks with offices which people can't then make use of since there's nowhere to park - how does that work?

Aside from that the point I'm making which you don't seem to get is that you can keep on extracting money from people, but that's then money they can't spend elsewhere. So... you've just charged people on the basis of something that doesn't exist, thus removing money that would have been spent on goods bought from a shop - i.e. an existing business.

Do you work for a council by any chance?

No i don't work for a council. But I am a biased Londoner so don't see driving to work as a human right (in fact it appears like hell on earth to me). If you don't have a parking space you'll get to work some other way. Trains, buses, bikes etc.

How about build blocks of flats on the car parks and walk to work?!

This post has been edited by gadget: 24 February 2012 - 06:20 PM

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Has Ryan-air takenover the running of the councils.

The public sector must be in real trouble to start with this kind of nonsense.

Milton Keynes council has been eeking out every penny in parking from motorists in the last couple of years. Has got so silly I just stopped shopping there.

The public sector shouldbe there to benefir the public...not tax them into oblivion so they can have massive salaries and great pensions.

The sooner the real cuts come to the Uk the better, we need a lean affordable transparent sane public sector.

This post has been edited by TheCountOfNowhere: 24 February 2012 - 07:10 PM

[TheBlueCat]

leicestersq, on 24 February 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Yes, it is true. Taxes on smoking for example, have discouraged people from smoking and extended the lives of many people. Likewise a tax on parking will encourage people to live closer to where they work, and to walk and cycle, making them fitter and healthier.

On the other side of the equation, tax pays for things like schools and roads and hospitals, which we are all glad of.

By that logic we should tax everyone at 100% of income then the world would be perfect, no-one would ever get sick, eat unhealthy food, drive a car or do anything very much since there would be no point in working. Oh, wait, I think I justed spotted the flaw.