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Is this chap mis-representing how much he's actualloy getting?
Income = £20k
Benefits = £20k, however this is equivalent to something around £30k as a take-home salary
Therefore total income is somewhere nearer £50k, with his disposableincome at something nearer £30k total.
(that's not including the employer contributions, or the empoyer contributions that have been 'missed' by paying benefits...)
Working And On Benefits
How to double your salary
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#76
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:06 AM
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Nothing sedates rationality like large doses of effortless money. After a heady experience of that kind, normally sensible behaviour drift into behaviour akin to that of Cinderella at the ball. They know that overstaying the festivities...will eventually bring on pumpkins and mice. But they nevertheless hate to miss a single minute of what is a helluva party. Therefore, the giddy participants all plan to leave just seconds before midnight. There's a problem, though: They are dancing in a room in which the clocks have no hands."
My favorite post ever:
By Ruffles the Guinea Pig
Nothing sedates rationality like large doses of effortless money. After a heady experience of that kind, normally sensible behaviour drift into behaviour akin to that of Cinderella at the ball. They know that overstaying the festivities...will eventually bring on pumpkins and mice. But they nevertheless hate to miss a single minute of what is a helluva party. Therefore, the giddy participants all plan to leave just seconds before midnight. There's a problem, though: They are dancing in a room in which the clocks have no hands."
My favorite post ever:
By Ruffles the Guinea Pig
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#77
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:30 AM
1swellfoop, on 21 February 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:
Stick your savings in a SIPP or other pension and they don't count as savings for benefits though ( and they'll even add another 20% to it for you).
Obviously you can't then touch it until retirement age.
Obviously you can't then touch it until retirement age.
Correct, but retirement age is 55.
[color="#4169E1"]2013 Predictions (as at January 2013)
1. Nationwide & Halifax will show a nominal house price decline of 3% or less across 2013. Falls will be steeper for flats, starter homes, unemployment blackspots and in the North and Wales. Falls will be shallower for 3+ bedroom family homes and in London and the South East.
2. Land Registry and Acadametrics declines will be less than Nationwide and Halifax because they also include cash purchases, which will constitute a growing share of total house buying.
3. The base rate will remain exceptionally low in 2013.
4. RPI will be higher in 2013 than 2012, but by the end of the 2013 will be about 3-4%.
5. FTSE will be over 6500 by the end of 2013, corporate profits will grow, but driven by cost cutting and overseas earnings rather than domestic demand.
6. Owner occupancy rates in Britain will decline further as <25% deposit mortgages remain restricted.
7. Greece will still be in Europe by the end of 2013, but the underlying problems won't have gone away and at some later point they'll have to abandon the Euro.
8. Unemployment will finish the year at about 2.5 million. Median pay will fall further behind average pay as inequality continues to grow.
1. Nationwide & Halifax will show a nominal house price decline of 3% or less across 2013. Falls will be steeper for flats, starter homes, unemployment blackspots and in the North and Wales. Falls will be shallower for 3+ bedroom family homes and in London and the South East.
2. Land Registry and Acadametrics declines will be less than Nationwide and Halifax because they also include cash purchases, which will constitute a growing share of total house buying.
3. The base rate will remain exceptionally low in 2013.
4. RPI will be higher in 2013 than 2012, but by the end of the 2013 will be about 3-4%.
5. FTSE will be over 6500 by the end of 2013, corporate profits will grow, but driven by cost cutting and overseas earnings rather than domestic demand.
6. Owner occupancy rates in Britain will decline further as <25% deposit mortgages remain restricted.
7. Greece will still be in Europe by the end of 2013, but the underlying problems won't have gone away and at some later point they'll have to abandon the Euro.
8. Unemployment will finish the year at about 2.5 million. Median pay will fall further behind average pay as inequality continues to grow.
#78
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:33 AM
ingermany, on 22 February 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:
Isn't the benefits system just an acknowledgement of the facts:
1. The cost of living has risen beyond the reach of the average salary.
2. Without large helpings of benefits there would be a lot of poverty and a long hard recession/depression.
3. Benefits are needed to subsidize high house prices. Average wage of 20k doesn't get or pay a mortgage. Add in 20k of benefits=40k=no problem.
1. The cost of living has risen beyond the reach of the average salary.
2. Without large helpings of benefits there would be a lot of poverty and a long hard recession/depression.
3. Benefits are needed to subsidize high house prices. Average wage of 20k doesn't get or pay a mortgage. Add in 20k of benefits=40k=no problem.
Average voters feel entitled to an above average life style and below average voters feel entitled to an average life style.
[color="#4169E1"]2013 Predictions (as at January 2013)
1. Nationwide & Halifax will show a nominal house price decline of 3% or less across 2013. Falls will be steeper for flats, starter homes, unemployment blackspots and in the North and Wales. Falls will be shallower for 3+ bedroom family homes and in London and the South East.
2. Land Registry and Acadametrics declines will be less than Nationwide and Halifax because they also include cash purchases, which will constitute a growing share of total house buying.
3. The base rate will remain exceptionally low in 2013.
4. RPI will be higher in 2013 than 2012, but by the end of the 2013 will be about 3-4%.
5. FTSE will be over 6500 by the end of 2013, corporate profits will grow, but driven by cost cutting and overseas earnings rather than domestic demand.
6. Owner occupancy rates in Britain will decline further as <25% deposit mortgages remain restricted.
7. Greece will still be in Europe by the end of 2013, but the underlying problems won't have gone away and at some later point they'll have to abandon the Euro.
8. Unemployment will finish the year at about 2.5 million. Median pay will fall further behind average pay as inequality continues to grow.
1. Nationwide & Halifax will show a nominal house price decline of 3% or less across 2013. Falls will be steeper for flats, starter homes, unemployment blackspots and in the North and Wales. Falls will be shallower for 3+ bedroom family homes and in London and the South East.
2. Land Registry and Acadametrics declines will be less than Nationwide and Halifax because they also include cash purchases, which will constitute a growing share of total house buying.
3. The base rate will remain exceptionally low in 2013.
4. RPI will be higher in 2013 than 2012, but by the end of the 2013 will be about 3-4%.
5. FTSE will be over 6500 by the end of 2013, corporate profits will grow, but driven by cost cutting and overseas earnings rather than domestic demand.
6. Owner occupancy rates in Britain will decline further as <25% deposit mortgages remain restricted.
7. Greece will still be in Europe by the end of 2013, but the underlying problems won't have gone away and at some later point they'll have to abandon the Euro.
8. Unemployment will finish the year at about 2.5 million. Median pay will fall further behind average pay as inequality continues to grow.
#79
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:37 AM
The trouble I have is that its like house prices, the day I decide to play the game is the day this mutha turns and the process of reverting to mean begins in earnest.
#80
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:52 AM
ingermany, on 22 February 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:
Isn't the benefits system just an acknowledgement of the facts:
1. The cost of living has risen beyond the reach of the average salary.
1. The cost of living has risen beyond the reach of the average salary.
Yes, but it is bizarre that the best way to access these benefits is to have as many children as possible. Benefits don't seem designed to help poor people on low incomes, they are breeding subsidies accessible to people with plenty of wealth as long as it is in the form of housing equity.
#81
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:10 AM
I must admit I'm very puzzled as to the motives of the bbc. Have they deliberately picked examples that highlight the excesses of our benefits system, or is this the best they could come up with in terms of eliciting sympathy? If the former, how does this square with the commonly-expressed opinion on this site that the bbc are a bunch of commies or something?
It's very hard to tell from reading it what the intent is - it's defiantly neutral.
It's very hard to tell from reading it what the intent is - it's defiantly neutral.
Buy my book "All the Way Home"
#82
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:31 AM
SeeYouNextTuesday, on 22 February 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:
The trouble I have is that its like house prices, the day I decide to play the game is the day this mutha turns and the process of reverting to mean begins in earnest.
+1
#83
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:58 AM
ingermany, on 22 February 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:
Isn't the benefits system just an acknowledgement of the facts:
1. The cost of living has risen beyond the reach of the average salary.
2. Without large helpings of benefits there would be a lot of poverty and a long hard recession/depression.
3. Benefits are needed to subsidize high house prices. Average wage of 20k doesn't get or pay a mortgage. Add in 20k of benefits=40k=no problem.
1. The cost of living has risen beyond the reach of the average salary.
2. Without large helpings of benefits there would be a lot of poverty and a long hard recession/depression.
3. Benefits are needed to subsidize high house prices. Average wage of 20k doesn't get or pay a mortgage. Add in 20k of benefits=40k=no problem.
Yep. Don't get the hate for this guy. He's got a disabled kid and works a full-time proper job. A middle of the road white collar worker could have had the same lifestyle on one income without a big benefits package a generation or two ago. The system's wrong, not this father.
Consume The Mainstream Media http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5UTHRx0a4...feature=channel
#84
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:16 AM
I've just had a look at working/child tax credit tables. I have two kids so in my case:
Income Handout
------- ---------
£20,000 £4,755
£25,000 £2,705
£30,000 £ 655
So the marginal rate is £2000 in benefits lost per £5000 in income gains. (40%)
So with income/NI included, your marginal rate is around 65%.
I'm getting more and more tempted to salary sacrifice even more and more of my salary to get some of this free cash, use the 25% tax-fee amount to clear the mortgage at 55 and retire early.
I always wondered why people on a third of my salary were doing so well.
Income Handout
------- ---------
£20,000 £4,755
£25,000 £2,705
£30,000 £ 655
So the marginal rate is £2000 in benefits lost per £5000 in income gains. (40%)
So with income/NI included, your marginal rate is around 65%.
I'm getting more and more tempted to salary sacrifice even more and more of my salary to get some of this free cash, use the 25% tax-fee amount to clear the mortgage at 55 and retire early.
I always wondered why people on a third of my salary were doing so well.
1. Fiat currency is just a liars promise. Do you trust your central bank?
2. For a 40% taxpayer, marginal rate is >60% when including employee/employers NI and loss of child benefit from Jan 2013. What's the point doing any work at this rate?
2. For a 40% taxpayer, marginal rate is >60% when including employee/employers NI and loss of child benefit from Jan 2013. What's the point doing any work at this rate?
#85
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:20 PM
"Benefits are a good thing, and if society can afford it, they should be paid."
And therein lies the problem.
And therein lies the problem.
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:34 PM
Warwick-Watcher, on 21 February 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:
Wasting almost £6,000 a year on the kiddeee fyddlers organisation (i.e. the church).
It gets better... Presumably the church is a registered charity which is able to claim Gift Aid from the government on its donations. What little income tax Mr Ade pays through his job will end up in the hands of the church anyway.
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:46 PM
CrashedOutAndBurned, on 22 February 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:
Yep. Don't get the hate for this guy. He's got a disabled kid and works a full-time proper job. A middle of the road white collar worker could have had the same lifestyle on one income without a big benefits package a generation or two ago. The system's wrong, not this father.
Up to a point I'd agree. However, having enough disposable income to give a fairly hefty chunk to the church and make early payments on his mortgage rather crosses the line...
Buy my book "All the Way Home"
#88
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:25 PM
It's just struck me that if the tax-credit benefits are the same for employed or self-employed, then there will be people out there who get:
20k net earnings after tax
20k benefits
20k cash in hand.
but you won't find them volunteering their story in the newspapers.
this thought may or may not have been influenced by having the plasterer in today.
20k net earnings after tax
20k benefits
20k cash in hand.
but you won't find them volunteering their story in the newspapers.
this thought may or may not have been influenced by having the plasterer in today.
#89
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:44 PM
CrashedOutAndBurned, on 22 February 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:
Yep. Don't get the hate for this guy. He's got a disabled kid and works a full-time proper job. A middle of the road white collar worker could have had the same lifestyle on one income without a big benefits package a generation or two ago. The system's wrong, not this father.
Absolutely agree. there is no cause whatsoever to vilify those who are just following the rules that have been drafted by the political establishment. In any case, the real"beneficiaries" are owners of land and property. The benefits keep the property values up by ensuring that families on low incomes can service large mortgages. The money is being siphoned from the young, the single, and those in rented accommodation and being fed to those who have property portfolios. The actual claimants are just blameless intermediaries in the process of theft.
#90
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:59 PM
Dorkins, on 22 February 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:
Yes, but it is bizarre that the best way to access these benefits is to have as many children as possible. Benefits don't seem designed to help poor people on low incomes, they are breeding subsidies accessible to people with plenty of wealth as long as it is in the form of housing equity.
Breeding potential future taxpayers is rewarded?
If you say "democorruptcy" quickly, it sounds a bit like "democracy". In a "democracy" people vote for politicians who represent their interests. In the UK's "democorruptcy" people can only vote for expense fiddling thieving MPs who are in the hip pocket of big business and the finance sector.
The Funding for Lending Scheme (FLS) is stealing from savers to make them pay for crimes by bankers. Via lower interest on savings, all the bank fines for PPI, LIBOR and interest rates swaps are now being paid by savers so that bankers can keep pocketing bonuses.
"We need to make a really big change: from an economy built on debt to an economy built on savings" - David Camoron Jan 2009
"Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed" - George Osborne Jan 2009
- So what do Camoron & Osborne do? Print money and leave interest rates at 0.5% when inflation is over 5%
If it is asserted that civilization is a real advance in the condition of man -- and I think that it is, though only the wise improve their advantages -- it must be shown that it has produced better dwellings without making them more costly; and the cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
http://classiclit.ab...en-Part-2_4.htm
Did you recognise the two robbers in my avatar? Clue: One got a knighthood and inflation linked pension, the other a 150 year prison sentence.
The Funding for Lending Scheme (FLS) is stealing from savers to make them pay for crimes by bankers. Via lower interest on savings, all the bank fines for PPI, LIBOR and interest rates swaps are now being paid by savers so that bankers can keep pocketing bonuses.
"We need to make a really big change: from an economy built on debt to an economy built on savings" - David Camoron Jan 2009
"Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed" - George Osborne Jan 2009
- So what do Camoron & Osborne do? Print money and leave interest rates at 0.5% when inflation is over 5%
If it is asserted that civilization is a real advance in the condition of man -- and I think that it is, though only the wise improve their advantages -- it must be shown that it has produced better dwellings without making them more costly; and the cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
http://classiclit.ab...en-Part-2_4.htm
Did you recognise the two robbers in my avatar? Clue: One got a knighthood and inflation linked pension, the other a 150 year prison sentence.