[Chuffy Chuffnell]

wonderpup, on 20 February 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

So it may well be that when we have all transformed ourselves into the ultra efficient low wage production powerhouses we dream of becoming- we discover that there is no spending power left to absorb the products.

Though surely having everything cheap means you don't need much spending power? That is the nature of efficiency.

Of course the major flaw (one which economists ignore) is that energy and resources are finite. To access new energy (eg hydrogen, solar) or new resources (eg on the moon) requires a heck of a lot of investment.

This post has been edited by Chuffy Chuffnell: 20 February 2012 - 12:34 AM

[Lone_Twin]

wonderpup, on 20 February 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

A race to the bottom only ends when the bottom is reached- and who knows how deep that hole will be?

The oddest thing about the Globalists is their failure to grasp that a globlaised economy has no 'outside' - so when we- all at the same time- play the supply side game we end up with a world of exporters with no one to export to.

It's important to be competitive- that's true- but it's even more important that there be something to compete for. And that prize would be the disposable income that the supply side geniuses define as surplus fat on the sleek body of the economy.

So it may well be that when we have all transformed ourselves into the ultra efficient low wage production powerhouses we dream of becoming- we discover that there is no spending power left to absorb the products.

Wages are just a cost of production like any other. If you wish to compete on the basis of high cost you are very welcome to but you won't get far.
Disposable income is not the goal that is a proxy for production. In order to make a claim on the outputs of production we need to produce things ourselves or produce something we can trade. Otherwise why will those chaps over seas send us the stuff they have made?

Or can we rely on their unswerving loyalty to us the kind and benevolent consumer?

[Lone_Twin]

Chuffy Chuffnell, on 20 February 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Though surely having everything cheap means you don't need much spending power? That is the nature of efficiency.

Of course the major flaw (one which economists ignore) is that energy and resources are finite. To access new energy (eg hydrogen, solar) or new resources (eg on the moon) requires a heck of a lot of investment.

"
This.
Resources are the finite factor here. Humans are "making machines" its what we do. When the whole world is making stuff i'm not sure resources will keep up.

Fingers crossed for fusion.

Or massively reduced working hours.

[PopGun]

easy2012, on 19 February 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I also read about many reports about Generation Y in the emerging world refusing to take up low paid, long hours work (while living off their parents). The tide may be turning (and also end of super cheap goods while MPC find new excuses on why inflation is consistently above the target...)

Oh so the entitlement gene isn't isolated in feckless, lazy Western youths after all!?If we're not careful, this could spill out to a worldwide contagion. Obviously we must quarantine this inflexible workforce off (as we did in the west) before it spreads further.

Problem is, where will the free markets go to find their new disciples of hard work and entrepreneurship now? I hear there could be bacteria on Europa, so there's hope yet.

[Lone_Twin]

PopGun, on 20 February 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Oh so the entitlement gene isn't isolated in feckless, lazy Western youths after all!?If we're not careful, this could spill out to a worldwide contagion. Obviously we must quarantine this inflexible workforce off (as we did in the west) before it spreads further.

Problem is, where will the free markets go to find their new disciples of hard work and entrepreneurship now? I hear there could be bacteria on Europa, so there's hope yet.

Wages will be driven up. (unless major african labour markets open up.) This is all good positive stuff. We might get some of our lost industry back.
Good times.

[easy2012]

PopGun, on 20 February 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Oh so the entitlement gene isn't isolated in feckless, lazy Western youths after all!?If we're not careful, this could spill out to a worldwide contagion. Obviously we must quarantine this inflexible workforce off (as we did in the west) before it spreads further.

Problem is, where will the free markets go to find their new disciples of hard work and entrepreneurship now? I hear there could be bacteria on Europa, so there's hope yet.

Don't worry... when the Parent-fare runs out, they will be back to work as they are unable to threaten other citizens to pay for them. Western welfare states operate in a slightly different way, of course.

[goldbug9999]

wonderpup, on 19 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

So that's the target we need to reach in terms of pay in order to become competitive-- £62.50 a week

Thats actually higher than large swathes of eastern europe. In provincial Ukriane for example that would be a be a lawyer/doctor/department manager level salary, factory workers would be on much less. Getting "hard work" out of eastern europeans though is like getting blood out of a stone.