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The Nineties


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#61 Sir Harold m

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

I see a bit of a flaw in the argument that today's interest rates being low indicate hp multiples should be higher re: salaries.

Aren't low ir's also an indication of low expected growth in incomes and wealth (nominally) hence the prevailing interest rate should have no effect on hp/income multiple. ?

Edited by Sir Harold m, 15 February 2012 - 08:04 PM.


#62 TheCountOfNowhere

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

Have we got another troll who doesn't actually realise we have already had a decent crash, down about thirty percent in real terms. What he fails to realise is that crazy asking prices in his local area are not the actual purchase price anyone with half a brain is paying. its sad that the young and some idiots are still being conned into paying well over the odds for some basic shelter. This whole thing Will not play out well for anyone paying near 2007 prices.

#63 hotairmail

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:56 PM

http://www.housepric...dpost&p=3254846


:lol: I never realised there was a 'Trolls sub Forum'.

Surely people must realise other posters have memories of what they have said previously?

"The chicken is radiating disorder out into the wider universe."


#64 SNACR

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:03 PM

If you call mortgages, what they in fact really are, a wages advance - so it's for a lender a gamble on the person's lifetime earnings potential.

Does it then look plausible that this country's under-30s will be in secure long-term employment with significantly higher salaries than previous generations?

Personally, I look and have serious doubts if many will find any secure paid employment whatsoever.

#65 hotairmail

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:04 PM

I have found that trolls are liars and liars have to spin webs of deceit and have difficulty keeping their stories straight.

Posters catch so many out that way.


Is it actually Bardon the antipodean Burnely BTLer?

"The chicken is radiating disorder out into the wider universe."


#66 SNACR

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

I am seeing prices drop here in Northern Ireland even though we have already had a 50% crash. There was a middle group of houses put on at 2007 prices and still languishing on the EA books. One I saw yesterday had dropped from 395K to 225K. So when the middle lot gets real if they want to sell houses NI will look more like a 60% drop.

So many young people were sucked in to the property ladder media frenzy and now they are paying the price for it - either re-possession or living on very little while their mortgage eats up most of their wages. What a life.
Paying for an over priced property certainly beats renting -- I don't think.


If NAMA was forced into a proper fire sale in the republic would that pull down prices in NI significantly?

#67 Bruce Banner

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:20 PM

So many young people were sucked in to the property ladder media frenzy and now they are paying the price for it - either re-possession or living on very little while their mortgage eats up most of their wages. What a life.
Paying for an over priced property certainly beats renting -- I don't think.


I saw a TV advertisement for Nationwide this evening..

"Nationwide, we're on your side. 100% mortgages to help first time buyers get onto the property ladder".

Shameful, anything to turn a fast buck at the expense of youngsters embarking on the road to poverty :(.
.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lest there be any doubt.

No I believe prices will fall and am astounded that a so called Conservative led government could act in such a stupid way. As you can see from today, there are 2,000 HtB applicants and it has been on MSM none stop all day and they make up about 3.5% of a typical months mortgages.

BTL is a good potential way to bankruptcy and yes sometimes I make points to hopefully make people think.


#68 Guest_Seethefuture_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

Been reading this forum for about 5 years, but just registered as I wholeheartedly agree with the opening post, granular reduction over years of the real value of houses.

ZIRP for 5-10 years, the increase in both disposable cash and double incomes will keep prices high. The rental laws in this country also lend themselves to high house prices as does the ingrained mindset of the British. Yorkshire Building Society are offering 10 year mortgages at 4.5%. Plus TPTB will not let house prices collapse due to the political implications.

Adding onto that, starter houses in my area, Sheffield, have reached what I consider within the reach of FTBs, single income with decent deposit, at around the 80-90k mark.

Not a troll, agree with the majority of the sentiment on this site, just think there are so many fundamental reasons why this time it might just be wrong.

#69 vlad the impaler

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:49 PM

An interesting thread. My contribution is this:

I personally don't believe that things will go back to the way they were, and I am sorry to say that 'this time it really is different'. Why? The medium we are using to have this discussion.

The rise of the internet, and indeed the absolutely massive increase in both the speed and volume of personal communications is, in my opinion the difference. The internet is a world changer - and it is tearing up the rule book of what came before. The spivs and sharks have not been slow in exploiting it. Aleady we have viral marketing, hype and b*llcrap being spread around by PR companies pushing 'the next big thing'. The BBC in the day at least seems to one big plug for either new movies (Breakfast Time), Antiques (Bargain Hunt) or Property (HUTH etc). The speed with which news travels was unthinkable in the mid 90s. Bubbles are being artifically inflated by certain interested parties (gold, classic cars, collectable watches, houses, even Ebay is not immune. People will collect anything, and the interent has let the cat out of the bag. Very niche and geeky things I used to collect years ago - all have gone nuts in terms of price, and this is because so many people have access to these things through web sales. There are no more bargains, everyone is now too savvy and switched on for that.

So, I am afraid I don't think houses will drop much. The messgae about what a great investment they are is too deeply ingrained in people. The moment something is perceived as a 'bargain', the news travels in a flash and 1000 people jump on it. No longer a bargain.....
"[We] are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of security. And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone. What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade. The years thunder by, the dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed. Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?" - Sterling Hayden

"Stop to consider how the so-called owners of the land got hold of it. They simply seized it by force, afterwards hiring lawyers to provide them with title-deeds. In the case of the enclosure of the common lands, which was going on from about 1600 to 1850, the land-grabbers did not even have the excuse of being foreign conquerors; they were quite frankly taking the heritage of their own countrymen, upon no sort of pretext except that they had the power to do so.
George Orwell."

#70 8 year itch

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:54 PM

Been reading this forum for about 5 years, but just registered as I wholeheartedly agree with the opening post,

how fortuitous

There is no ladder.

JY


No need to sell up, the next phase of the economics cycle is going to be very positive for anyone that owns property.

All I'm sayings is, don't listen to the property bears people, they are wrong.


#71 Si1

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:55 PM

An interesting thread. My contribution is this:

I personally don't believe that things will go back to the way they were, and I am sorry to say that 'this time it really is different'. Why? The medium we are using to have this discussion.

The rise of the internet, and indeed the absolutely massive increase in both the speed and volume of personal communications is, in my opinion the difference. The internet is a world changer - and it is tearing up the rule book of what came before. The spivs and sharks have not been slow in exploiting it. Aleady we have viral marketing, hype and b*llcrap being spread around by PR companies pushing 'the next big thing'. The BBC in the day at least seems to one big plug for either new movies (Breakfast Time), Antiques (Bargain Hunt) or Property (HUTH etc). The speed with which news travels was unthinkable in the mid 90s. Bubbles are being artifically inflated by certain interested parties (gold, classic cars, collectable watches, houses, even Ebay is not immune. People will collect anything, and the interent has let the cat out of the bag. Very niche and geeky things I used to collect years ago - all have gone nuts in terms of price, and this is because so many people have access to these things through web sales. There are no more bargains, everyone is now too savvy and switched on for that.

So, I am afraid I don't think houses will drop much. The messgae about what a great investment they are is too deeply ingrained in people. The moment something is perceived as a 'bargain', the news travels in a flash and 1000 people jump on it. No longer a bargain.....


what a load of old codswallop

speculation is 1000s of years old, human nature is not going top be changed by the internet

what you seem to be implying is that the internet makes for a more efficient market with more informed participants

which is patently untrue given that we have just also suffered the biggest credit crunch in human history

what can be overvalued in the age of the internet can also be undervalued in the age of the internet

what about Northern Ireland? Japan?

and if everybody was so well financially informed - why oh were the trading volumes for the stockmarket so low in early 2009? why were almost everybody I met giving me funny looks for me buying up shares by the bucketload?

you provide no evidence for your assertion, which remains just that, an assertion without foundation

house prices are toast

#72 Si1

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:06 AM

So, I am afraid I don't think houses will drop much. The messgae about what a great investment they are is too deeply ingrained in people.


sorry but I had to highlight this

what an utterly uneducated ill-thought-out lightweight and generally unsupportable lamentable piece of bum-crunching bubble speak

hilarious

#73 dervis

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:10 AM

An interesting thread. My contribution is this:

I personally don't believe that things will go back to the way they were, and I am sorry to say that 'this time it really is different'. Why? The medium we are using to have this discussion.

The rise of the internet, and indeed the absolutely massive increase in both the speed and volume of personal communications is, in my opinion the difference. The internet is a world changer - and it is tearing up the rule book of what came before. The spivs and sharks have not been slow in exploiting it. Aleady we have viral marketing, hype and b*llcrap being spread around by PR companies pushing 'the next big thing'. The BBC in the day at least seems to one big plug for either new movies (Breakfast Time), Antiques (Bargain Hunt) or Property (HUTH etc). The speed with which news travels was unthinkable in the mid 90s. Bubbles are being artifically inflated by certain interested parties (gold, classic cars, collectable watches, houses, even Ebay is not immune. People will collect anything, and the interent has let the cat out of the bag. Very niche and geeky things I used to collect years ago - all have gone nuts in terms of price, and this is because so many people have access to these things through web sales. There are no more bargains, everyone is now too savvy and switched on for that.

So, I am afraid I don't think houses will drop much. The messgae about what a great investment they are is too deeply ingrained in people. The moment something is perceived as a 'bargain', the news travels in a flash and 1000 people jump on it. No longer a bargain.....


Know what you mean; its a really different environment. What will be reallly interesting is to see what kind of country we'll be living in ten year's hence, when this thread will be dug up and pored over! :lol:
You cannot treat the UK as a whole where house prices are concerned. Trust me, Northern Ireland is not London! Within London itself there are massive variations. In my area of South London I'd seen prices and properties stagnate for ages; but worryingly, in the last two months or so, I've seen a rash of activity, with quite a few sold signs up, and there are so many that they cannot all have taken losses. The house across the road from me went in three weeks. What the hell is going on? I wonder if some of that foreign money is being invested into other areas of the city?

#74 Greg Bowman

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:09 AM

What about the trend for increasing precarity of employment? Okay, so both husband and wife might be employed but they are more likely to experience unemployment with permanent jobs increasingly hard to come by. The difference between now and when a single wage earner was supporting the household is also that the single wage earner, barring the loss of the industry they were employed in, may well have had a job for life.

Would like to see some statistics about when having two wage earners became increasingly common but I think that trend was on the rise long before the mid-nineties bottom for the housing market.


Slightly old data but there hasn't been a dramatic change in job tenure since the 1970's http://www.cepr.org/pubs/eep/articles/
What does that mean?

#75 Greg Bowman

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:15 AM

sorry but I had to highlight this

what an utterly uneducated ill-thought-out lightweight and generally unsupportable lamentable piece of bum-crunching bubble speak


+1 but so was this

You think that people will never realise or be bothered that they have become debt slaves and the government can print wealth?

Talking about a nation that pours billions into the national lottery and engages in binge drinking and gutter culture like Big Brother :)
What does that mean?




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