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#31 Lagarde's Drift

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:13 PM

Perfect summary - cheers

Unfortunately it doesn't quite apply to life. :)

#32 winkie

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:19 PM

Unfortunately it doesn't quite apply to life. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sROJkkDyKH8
What you don't owe won't worry you.

Less can be more.

#33 Total_Injustice

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

Unfortunately it doesn't quite apply to life. :)


True for the last bit but ...

"If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists"

... says it all for me
Recovery - Noun

1. The act of recovering from sickness, a shock, or a setback
2. Restoration to a former and better condition
3. The regaining of something lost
4. The extraction of useful substances from waste

Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

If RECOVERY is what the country thinks the housing market needs then we're all fuc*ed.


Our taxes are effectively be paying the mortgages of all those 'rescued' over the past few months, and all those on 0.5% interest rates.

#34 Sir Harold m

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

Sorry, but whilst you might be technically correct just look at what you are actually saying.

You are completely accepting of the situation were it is necessary to move into gold in order to be able to buy a home. Indeed moving into and out of gold is not without risk. So how do we understand the level of risk in the current system it certainly isnt accurately reported. Id say the opposite in fact we are lied to every day.

Houses homes investments, this is the nub of the problem. Families should be able to buy a home without selling their futures. Theres a lot of talk on here about being a debt slave and keeping out of debt to remain free. I havent bought yet and I am saving hard so I can buy. Oddly enough I am not a debt slave I am a saving slave. The longer I save, the less I can see the difference between the two.

I am neither accepting nor rejecting it. The world does not owe you a living, nor does it owe you a house. The very fact that you were ( I'm assuming) born in the uk and now have access freely to the net almost certainly puts you in the luckiest 4-5 per cent of humanity by birth. And yet you feel aggrieved that you must make some effort or risk to move further up the ladder.

I would wager almost everything that you have access to free education, welfare , free access to a dwelling that in nearly all material measures will rank in the top 5 per cent on the planet and you are free to improve your life .

You also made the mistake of believing that holding gold is a gamble whereas holding an IOU from a fiat issuer is or ought not tobe .

They are relative to each other ( often inversely) so they are a Both a wager , not just one of them.

Families should not have a right to buy a home, they should have a right to be free to do so or not. It is your choice and if you feel they are currently too high, don't buy, if you are correct your alternative portfolio will outperform housing and you will be able to buy. If you are wrong, you will live with the consequences and will almost certainly enjoy a far superior lifestyle than 95 per cent of humanity.

And yet you still feel unlucky. I despair at your total lack of gratitude and humility.

#35 jammo

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:37 PM

As some one who has played a bit of poker I can asure you that there are certain hands with which you will never win unless you can bluff the rest of the table to throw away better cards. If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists.The only sane response is to walk away from the table and refuse to participate.


Then mug them as they leave the casino :P
Politics comes from the Greek (Poli - Many; Tics - Lies)

#36 hedi

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:53 PM

I am neither accepting nor rejecting it. The world does not owe you a living, nor does it owe you a house. The very fact that you were ( I'm assuming) born in the uk and now have access freely to the net almost certainly puts you in the luckiest 4-5 per cent of humanity by birth. And yet you feel aggrieved that you must make some effort or risk to move further up the ladder.

I would wager almost everything that you have access to free education, welfare , free access to a dwelling that in nearly all material measures will rank in the top 5 per cent on the planet and you are free to improve your life .

You also made the mistake of believing that holding gold is a gamble whereas holding an IOU from a fiat issuer is or ought not tobe .

They are relative to each other ( often inversely) so they are a Both a wager , not just one of them.

Families should not have a right to buy a home, they should have a right to be free to do so or not. It is your choice and if you feel they are currently too high, don't buy, if you are correct your alternative portfolio will outperform housing and you will be able to buy. If you are wrong, you will live with the consequences and will almost certainly enjoy a far superior lifestyle than 95 per cent of humanity.

And yet you still feel unlucky. I despair at your total lack of gratitude and humility.


all true, but easier to think and believe, than live by, as you know.
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#37 Lagarde's Drift

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:57 PM

True for the last bit but ...

"If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists"

... says it all for me


Don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you think that way because you limit yourself. Life is not a zero sum game. Sure, tptb will always take from you, but that does not mean you have to be poor.

It seems to me that quite a few hpcers have some sort of victim mentality.

#38 erranta

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:58 PM

Which means don't live in a property? Don't use money? I dont know how it is possible not to participate.


Start building shanty towns on major landowners parks and do it en masse

- just make sure you have wised up media people to front for you
inform the local/national population precisely why

If the old bill attack you dont fight them!
- you know where they live for local retalliation
- most know what is going on anyway and at some point refuse to play the elites games anymore (esp as they have been hammered with pay cuts recently or below inflation wage rises) Most are only human with their families to house and feed anyways!

Use stealth and block their radio signals - hack their computers if they attack you first etc

You have to weed-out the extremist Masons amongst them too who undermine and give out their orders(edicts)

Edited by erranta, 04 February 2012 - 06:09 PM.

"The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit." Proverbs Ch18 v.11

Whistle Blow!
You know 'IT' makes sense!

Exploitation & corrupt Government / Elite Rule? They have nowhere to hide if we all EXPOSE their corruption!


"Most propaganda is NOT designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give MORAL COWARDS an excuse not to think at all!"


#39 Quicken

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:58 PM

In response to the OP, we're not all STR's. As a prospective FTB who missed out on the bubble on the ride up, I feel quite justified in being pi**ed off about how the game has been rigged, but it's true that bitching about it doesn't get you anywhere. I dutifully saved up a 1x salary deposit over the last 3-4 years, while it seemed the crash must come, and I'm not about to blow that on an overpriced shoebox here in Oxford (a quick rightmove search for property under 180k will show you what I mean). The problem is that it looks like it will take a generation to unwind this mess here, and I'm not prepared to wait another 20-30 years for meaningful change.

As a debt free saver getting no benefits and not belonging to a favoured demographic, what to do now is clear for me - emigrate.

In the areas of North America I am looking, I could afford a detached house in a decent neighbourhood (with my current wage and current deposit). No contest.
Remember, if you need Government 'help' to get a mortgage then you are subprime.

Bubble Killer: Wages and salaries for the middle income quintile of non-retired households fell in real terms from 33,100 in 2007/08 to 28,300 in 2011/12. 15% fall.

My Songs: Money for Nothing, Home Foreclosed

#40 stormymonday_2011

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:03 PM

Which means don't live in a property? Don't use money? I dont know how it is possible not to participate.


Oh but they need so much more than just your money and you dont have to give them all of that if you really put your mind to it.

Ultimately rigged poker needs the mugs to believe the game is straight. Once that illusion is lost then it is much harder to scam the marks even if it only means that they chuck their hands in earlier rather than raising the stakes. Once that happens the crooks wind up trying to con each other. It is at that stage that the table gets kicked over and blows exchanged. Take that metaphor from the Poker game to society and the wider world and you will see where we are going.

Edited by stormymonday_2011, 04 February 2012 - 06:05 PM.

The certainty of misery is preferable to the the misery of uncertainty

#41 Total_Injustice

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

I am neither accepting nor rejecting it. The world does not owe you a living, nor does it owe you a house. The very fact that you were ( I'm assuming) born in the uk and now have access freely to the net almost certainly puts you in the luckiest 4-5 per cent of humanity by birth. And yet you feel aggrieved that you must make some effort or risk to move further up the ladder.

I would wager almost everything that you have access to free education, welfare , free access to a dwelling that in nearly all material measures will rank in the top 5 per cent on the planet and you are free to improve your life .

You also made the mistake of believing that holding gold is a gamble whereas holding an IOU from a fiat issuer is or ought not tobe .

They are relative to each other ( often inversely) so they are a Both a wager , not just one of them.

Families should not have a right to buy a home, they should have a right to be free to do so or not. It is your choice and if you feel they are currently too high, don't buy, if you are correct your alternative portfolio will outperform housing and you will be able to buy. If you are wrong, you will live with the consequences and will almost certainly enjoy a far superior lifestyle than 95 per cent of humanity.

And yet you still feel unlucky. I despair at your total lack of gratitude and humility.


Again I agree that you are technically correct - I'm not moaning because of the 'wrong' choices I have or have not made. I am angry over the constant changing of the goal posts, that have repeatedly gone against the more risk-adverse members of the UK.

As for the right to be able to buy an affordable house, again you're correct it's not a right. However, if we accept that both mum and dad need to work every hour they can to pay the mortgage - best we don't complain when their children start to go off the rails.

I'm really just saying that there used to be a common sense balence and right now (and for some time previously) the odds are stacked against many of us. We shouldn't need to be financial gurus and understand the complexities of bond markets and gold prices in order to protect ourselves from 'the system'.

Edited by Total_Injustice, 04 February 2012 - 06:15 PM.

Recovery - Noun

1. The act of recovering from sickness, a shock, or a setback
2. Restoration to a former and better condition
3. The regaining of something lost
4. The extraction of useful substances from waste

Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

If RECOVERY is what the country thinks the housing market needs then we're all fuc*ed.


Our taxes are effectively be paying the mortgages of all those 'rescued' over the past few months, and all those on 0.5% interest rates.

#42 KingBingo

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:29 PM

the young are the hpc saviours. if you are fifty or sixty and sitting on your 1m pound property hoping to sell in 10 years for 2m and retire, i am affraid you are in for a nasty shock. where on earth do you think someone who is 30 now is going to get that sort of money,



When they earn 200k a year and a loaf of bread costs 7.
The truth is that the economies of rich countries, including the UK, are being kept alive by another and astonishingly under-reported bull market in government debt. This is the bond bubble; and when it bursts, as it surely will, the result will be a recession far deeper than the crash from which we are trying to recover.

Allister Heath
17 September 2011

#43 erranta

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:38 PM

Again I agree that you are technically correct - I'm not moaning because of the 'wrong' choices I have or have not made. I am angry over the constant changing of the goal posts, that have repeatedly gone against the more risk-adverse members of the UK.

As for the right to be able to buy an affordable house, again you're correct it's not a right. However, if we accept that both mum and dad need to work every hour they can to pay the mortgage - best we don't complain when their children start to go off the rails.

I'm really just saying that there used to be a common sense balence and right now (and for some time previously) the odds are stacked against many of us. We shouldn't need to be financial gurus and understand the complexities of bond markets and gold prices in order to protect ourselves from 'the system'.


Setting up shanty towns (not playing or paying into their systems) depriving the BTL and council tax Usurer brigades of their funds - will collapse the whole deck as BTL's quickly default and the bankers glaringly go bankrupt again!

Millions of immigrants would join you too - to save cash!

Serves them right for telling Porkies time and time again - but then THEY are the trough-ERs

Just saying ;)

Edited by erranta, 04 February 2012 - 07:38 PM.

"The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit." Proverbs Ch18 v.11

Whistle Blow!
You know 'IT' makes sense!

Exploitation & corrupt Government / Elite Rule? They have nowhere to hide if we all EXPOSE their corruption!


"Most propaganda is NOT designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give MORAL COWARDS an excuse not to think at all!"


#44 KingBingo

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

If the old bill attack you dont fight them!
- you know where they live for local retalliation



Any other emergency services you want to wait outside their house to attack?

Maybe a paramedic, or fireman? Or is it just police constables you want to wait till their walking out their front door with their misses and kid before you and a bunch of your leftie mates assault them.
The truth is that the economies of rich countries, including the UK, are being kept alive by another and astonishingly under-reported bull market in government debt. This is the bond bubble; and when it bursts, as it surely will, the result will be a recession far deeper than the crash from which we are trying to recover.

Allister Heath
17 September 2011

#45 erranta

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:28 PM

Any other emergency services you want to wait outside their house to attack?

Maybe a paramedic, or fireman? Or is it just police constables you want to wait till their walking out their front door with their misses and kid before you and a bunch of your leftie mates assault them.


I lean to the left - cos I is listening to someone :P

Full post read >>>
If the old bill attack you dont fight them!
- you know where they live for local retalliation
- most know what is going on anyway and at some point refuse to play the elites games anymore (esp as they have been hammered with pay cuts recently or below inflation wage rises) Most are only human with their families to house and feed anyways!

Use stealth and block their radio signals - hack their computers if they attack you first etc

Your ruse is outed - like a pack of cards Bingo - you have 'fallen'

Edited by erranta, 04 February 2012 - 07:29 PM.

"The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit." Proverbs Ch18 v.11

Whistle Blow!
You know 'IT' makes sense!

Exploitation & corrupt Government / Elite Rule? They have nowhere to hide if we all EXPOSE their corruption!


"Most propaganda is NOT designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give MORAL COWARDS an excuse not to think at all!"





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