Total_Injustice Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 If you had 100k for a 50 pc deposit this time last year and you had switched it to gold, ( with a bit of quanto ) you could now almost buy your house . One year to buy half a house? How much more of a ******in crash do you want? If you didn't move to gold ( I didn't) then you chose the wrong currency to invest in, proably because you didn't want to ! Your choice, your outcome, not my fickin problem ! Sorry, but whilst you might be technically correct just look at what you are actually saying. You are completely accepting of the situation were it is necessary to move into gold in order to be able to buy a home. Indeed moving into and out of gold is not without risk. So how do we understand the level of risk in the current system – it certainly isn’t accurately reported. I’d say the opposite in fact we are lied to every day. Houses – homes – investments, this is the nub of the problem. Families should be able to buy a home without selling their futures. There’s a lot of talk on here about being a debt slave and keeping out of debt to remain free. I haven’t bought yet and I am saving hard so I can buy. Oddly enough I am not a debt slave – I am a saving slave. The longer I save, the less I can see the difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Interesting thread. Fact is, we all get dealt a hand, some are better than others. The undeserving get ahead, the righteous behind, it's not fair, but then I guess that's life. Roll with the punches. I think it helps your mental health to try and distance yourself from it all, and look on the bright side. We're certainly living in interesting times, and we'll all be dead soon enough ; historians will write books on the years we're living in right now, it's all come to a head. You can be an interested observer even if it has fked your life choices up. We've all got ringside seats. We've also all got options, not the options you wanted I expect, but that's how it goes. It's not in our power to do anything about it at a government or systemic level, you just need to make the best of what you have and the situation you find yourself in. Think yourself fortunate you didn't succumb to the peer pressure in 2005-2007 and got that 'first rung on the ladder' by mortgaging yourself up to the tune of 200k for a new build 2 bed executive flat you hate but can't sell. We're not at the top of the tree in the blind luck that has been the property game, but we're not at the bottom either. Rentings a bit sh1t but so was buying unless you're 50+, and who'd want to be that old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Interesting thread. Fact is, we all get dealt a hand, some are better than others. The undeserving get ahead, the righteous behind, it's not fair, but then I guess that's life. Roll with the punches. As some one who has played a bit of poker I can asure you that there are certain hands with which you will never win unless you can bluff the rest of the table to throw away better cards. If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists.The only sane response is to walk away from the table and refuse to participate. Edited February 4, 2012 by stormymonday_2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The only sane response is to walk away from the table and refuse to participate. Which means don't live in a property? Don't use money? I dont know how it is possible not to participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total_Injustice Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 As some one who has played a bit of poker I can asure you that there are certain hands with which you will never win unless you can bluff the rest of the table to throw away better cards. If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists.The only sane response is to walk away from the table and refuse to participate. Perfect summary - cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Perfect summary - cheers Unfortunately it doesn't quite apply to life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Unfortunately it doesn't quite apply to life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sROJkkDyKH8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total_Injustice Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Unfortunately it doesn't quite apply to life. True for the last bit but ... "If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists" ... says it all for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Harold m Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Sorry, but whilst you might be technically correct just look at what you are actually saying. You are completely accepting of the situation were it is necessary to move into gold in order to be able to buy a home. Indeed moving into and out of gold is not without risk. So how do we understand the level of risk in the current system – it certainly isn’t accurately reported. I’d say the opposite in fact we are lied to every day. Houses – homes – investments, this is the nub of the problem. Families should be able to buy a home without selling their futures. There’s a lot of talk on here about being a debt slave and keeping out of debt to remain free. I haven’t bought yet and I am saving hard so I can buy. Oddly enough I am not a debt slave – I am a saving slave. The longer I save, the less I can see the difference between the two. I am neither accepting nor rejecting it. The world does not owe you a living, nor does it owe you a house. The very fact that you were ( I'm assuming) born in the uk and now have access freely to the net almost certainly puts you in the luckiest 4-5 per cent of humanity by birth. And yet you feel aggrieved that you must make some effort or risk to move further up the ladder. I would wager almost everything that you have access to free education, welfare , free access to a dwelling that in nearly all material measures will rank in the top 5 per cent on the planet and you are free to improve your life . You also made the mistake of believing that holding gold is a gamble whereas holding an IOU from a fiat issuer is or ought not tobe . They are relative to each other ( often inversely) so they are a Both a wager , not just one of them. Families should not have a right to buy a home, they should have a right to be free to do so or not. It is your choice and if you feel they are currently too high, don't buy, if you are correct your alternative portfolio will outperform housing and you will be able to buy. If you are wrong, you will live with the consequences and will almost certainly enjoy a far superior lifestyle than 95 per cent of humanity. And yet you still feel unlucky. I despair at your total lack of gratitude and humility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 As some one who has played a bit of poker I can asure you that there are certain hands with which you will never win unless you can bluff the rest of the table to throw away better cards. If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists.The only sane response is to walk away from the table and refuse to participate. Then mug them as they leave the casino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedi Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 I am neither accepting nor rejecting it. The world does not owe you a living, nor does it owe you a house. The very fact that you were ( I'm assuming) born in the uk and now have access freely to the net almost certainly puts you in the luckiest 4-5 per cent of humanity by birth. And yet you feel aggrieved that you must make some effort or risk to move further up the ladder. I would wager almost everything that you have access to free education, welfare , free access to a dwelling that in nearly all material measures will rank in the top 5 per cent on the planet and you are free to improve your life . You also made the mistake of believing that holding gold is a gamble whereas holding an IOU from a fiat issuer is or ought not tobe . They are relative to each other ( often inversely) so they are a Both a wager , not just one of them. Families should not have a right to buy a home, they should have a right to be free to do so or not. It is your choice and if you feel they are currently too high, don't buy, if you are correct your alternative portfolio will outperform housing and you will be able to buy. If you are wrong, you will live with the consequences and will almost certainly enjoy a far superior lifestyle than 95 per cent of humanity. And yet you still feel unlucky. I despair at your total lack of gratitude and humility. all true, but easier to think and believe, than live by, as you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 True for the last bit but ... "If the dealer is rigging the game and ensures his pals always gets the best hands you are sunk before it starts.Those who think the current game is crooked are not moaners but realists" ... says it all for me Don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you think that way because you limit yourself. Life is not a zero sum game. Sure, tptb will always take from you, but that does not mean you have to be poor. It seems to me that quite a few hpcers have some sort of victim mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Which means don't live in a property? Don't use money? I dont know how it is possible not to participate. Start building shanty towns on major landowners parks and do it en masse - just make sure you have wised up media people to front for you inform the local/national population precisely why If the old bill attack you dont fight them! - you know where they live for local retalliation - most know what is going on anyway and at some point refuse to play the elites games anymore (esp as they have been hammered with pay cuts recently or below inflation wage rises) Most are only human with their families to house and feed anyways! Use stealth and block their radio signals - hack their computers if they attack you first etc You have to weed-out the extremist Masons amongst them too who undermine and give out their orders(edicts) Edited February 4, 2012 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 In response to the OP, we're not all STR's. As a prospective FTB who missed out on the bubble on the ride up, I feel quite justified in being pi**ed off about how the game has been rigged, but it's true that bitching about it doesn't get you anywhere. I dutifully saved up a 1x salary deposit over the last 3-4 years, while it seemed the crash must come, and I'm not about to blow that on an overpriced shoebox here in Oxford (a quick rightmove search for property under 180k will show you what I mean). The problem is that it looks like it will take a generation to unwind this mess here, and I'm not prepared to wait another 20-30 years for meaningful change. As a debt free saver getting no benefits and not belonging to a favoured demographic, what to do now is clear for me - emigrate. In the areas of North America I am looking, I could afford a detached house in a decent neighbourhood (with my current wage and current deposit). No contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Which means don't live in a property? Don't use money? I dont know how it is possible not to participate. Oh but they need so much more than just your money and you dont have to give them all of that if you really put your mind to it. Ultimately rigged poker needs the mugs to believe the game is straight. Once that illusion is lost then it is much harder to scam the marks even if it only means that they chuck their hands in earlier rather than raising the stakes. Once that happens the crooks wind up trying to con each other. It is at that stage that the table gets kicked over and blows exchanged. Take that metaphor from the Poker game to society and the wider world and you will see where we are going. Edited February 4, 2012 by stormymonday_2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total_Injustice Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I am neither accepting nor rejecting it. The world does not owe you a living, nor does it owe you a house. The very fact that you were ( I'm assuming) born in the uk and now have access freely to the net almost certainly puts you in the luckiest 4-5 per cent of humanity by birth. And yet you feel aggrieved that you must make some effort or risk to move further up the ladder. I would wager almost everything that you have access to free education, welfare , free access to a dwelling that in nearly all material measures will rank in the top 5 per cent on the planet and you are free to improve your life . You also made the mistake of believing that holding gold is a gamble whereas holding an IOU from a fiat issuer is or ought not tobe . They are relative to each other ( often inversely) so they are a Both a wager , not just one of them. Families should not have a right to buy a home, they should have a right to be free to do so or not. It is your choice and if you feel they are currently too high, don't buy, if you are correct your alternative portfolio will outperform housing and you will be able to buy. If you are wrong, you will live with the consequences and will almost certainly enjoy a far superior lifestyle than 95 per cent of humanity. And yet you still feel unlucky. I despair at your total lack of gratitude and humility. Again I agree that you are technically correct - I'm not moaning because of the 'wrong' choices I have or have not made. I am angry over the constant changing of the goal posts, that have repeatedly gone against the more risk-adverse members of the UK. As for the right to be able to buy an affordable house, again you're correct it's not a right. However, if we accept that both mum and dad need to work every hour they can to pay the mortgage - best we don't complain when their children start to go off the rails. I'm really just saying that there used to be a common sense balence and right now (and for some time previously) the odds are stacked against many of us. We shouldn't need to be financial gurus and understand the complexities of bond markets and gold prices in order to protect ourselves from 'the system'. Edited February 4, 2012 by Total_Injustice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBingo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 the young are the hpc saviours. if you are fifty or sixty and sitting on your 1m pound property hoping to sell in 10 years for 2m and retire, i am affraid you are in for a nasty shock. where on earth do you think someone who is 30 now is going to get that sort of money, When they earn £200k a year and a loaf of bread costs £7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Again I agree that you are technically correct - I'm not moaning because of the 'wrong' choices I have or have not made. I am angry over the constant changing of the goal posts, that have repeatedly gone against the more risk-adverse members of the UK. As for the right to be able to buy an affordable house, again you're correct it's not a right. However, if we accept that both mum and dad need to work every hour they can to pay the mortgage - best we don't complain when their children start to go off the rails. I'm really just saying that there used to be a common sense balence and right now (and for some time previously) the odds are stacked against many of us. We shouldn't need to be financial gurus and understand the complexities of bond markets and gold prices in order to protect ourselves from 'the system'. Setting up shanty towns (not playing or paying into their systems) depriving the BTL and council tax Usurer brigades of their funds - will collapse the whole deck as BTL's quickly default and the bankers glaringly go bankrupt again! Millions of immigrants would join you too - to save cash! Serves them right for telling Porkies time and time again - but then THEY are the trough-ERs Just saying Edited February 4, 2012 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBingo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 If the old bill attack you dont fight them! - you know where they live for local retalliation Any other emergency services you want to wait outside their house to attack? Maybe a paramedic, or fireman? Or is it just police constables you want to wait till their walking out their front door with their misses and kid before you and a bunch of your leftie mates assault them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Any other emergency services you want to wait outside their house to attack? Maybe a paramedic, or fireman? Or is it just police constables you want to wait till their walking out their front door with their misses and kid before you and a bunch of your leftie mates assault them. I lean to the left - cos I is listening to someone Full post read >>> If the old bill attack you dont fight them! - you know where they live for local retalliation - most know what is going on anyway and at some point refuse to play the elites games anymore (esp as they have been hammered with pay cuts recently or below inflation wage rises) Most are only human with their families to house and feed anyways! Use stealth and block their radio signals - hack their computers if they attack you first etc Your ruse is outed - like a pack of cards Bingo - you have 'fallen' Edited February 4, 2012 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBingo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 No what you mean is make a passive aggressive nuisance of yourself until you get moved on, resist until you think your justified in turning up at some blokes house where his wife and kids are and jump them with your mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) No what you mean is make a passive aggressive nuisance of yourself until you get moved on, resist until you think your justified in turning up at some blokes house where his wife and kids are and jump them with your mates. Nothing different from the psychology of Kettling crowds or being "tooled up" to fight unarmed citizens on peaceful marches! The police are either with the people - or with a corrupt, bent elite that rule over us at present Look at the corruption pouring out from MET 'big cheese' (remember 2007) headquarters - the multiple resignations in disgrace by the most senior members - those who supposedly uphold the law! Their choice if their homes get what's coming Edited February 4, 2012 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Blizzard) Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 a lot of people on here recently are getting disgruntled about how things have panned out... People who don't moan and complain, don't change anything. Gandhi, what a whiner. Martin Luther King, always complaining and whinging. Jesus Christ? ...and so on, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People who don't moan and complain, don't change anything. Gandhi, what a whiner. Martin Luther King, always complaining and whinging. Jesus Christ? ...and so on, and so on. Hahahahhhahahhahhahahaahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Harold m Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People who don't moan and complain, don't change anything. Gandhi, what a whiner. Martin Luther King, always complaining and whinging. Jesus Christ? ...and so on, and so on. You are so right. There is no real difference between having no civil rights and watching impotently whilst your family are systematically beaten and raped by state supported thugs and not being able to trade up to a four bed detached with half an acre. The two predicaments are virtually identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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