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#1 S S

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:15 PM

I don't like Ballymena are anywhere near there yet. Still loads of half build stuff out there. The local big building firms don't have a hope in hell of shifting their significant stock at those prices. The resell market (especially 4 beds) is screwed. Even those dodgy 3 beds SS was talking about buying up a year or more ago are still falling like a stone. Where are all these Ballymena investors to snap these "high" yielding bargains up?
The thing with Ballymena is, there really are no jobs apart from a few big factories.

Lots and lots of BTL there though.



Do you mean these dodgy 3 bedroom houses sale agreed a few days ago in the Ballymena area?

http://www.propertyp...dential&st=sale

House 1, 3 bedroom house 50k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 608 pa total 5513 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 2, 3 bedroom house 48k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 376 pa total 5281 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 4, 3 bedroom house 40k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 645 pa total 5550 pa Gross yield 13.8%..

Minimum gross yield of 11% assuming the property sold for the asking price,sounds ok to me. But I would buy at auction or direct from the bank (i've been offered a few like for around 30k ish each.

As for lots and lots of BTL's in Ballymena. There's no more than in other similar areas.

Larne Area 58 available
Ballymoney Area 63 available
Ballymena Area 65 available
Carrickfergus Area 73 available
Coleraine Area 381available (big student area)

Edited by S S, 02 November 2011 - 01:17 PM.


#2 2buyornot2buy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:10 PM

Do you mean these dodgy 3 bedroom houses sale agreed a few days ago in the Ballymena area?

http://www.propertyp...dential&st=sale

House 1, 3 bedroom house 50k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 608 pa total 5513 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 2, 3 bedroom house 48k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 376 pa total 5281 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 4, 3 bedroom house 40k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 645 pa total 5550 pa Gross yield 13.8%..

Minimum gross yield of 11% assuming the property sold for the asking price,sounds ok to me. But I would buy at auction or direct from the bank (i've been offered a few like for around 30k ish each.

As for lots and lots of BTL's in Ballymena. There's no more than in other similar areas.

Larne Area 58 available
Ballymoney Area 63 available
Ballymena Area 65 available
Carrickfergus Area 73 available
Coleraine Area 381available (big student area)


Yes S.S those are the dodgy areas I'm talking about thanks.

#3 tinbin

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:41 PM

Do you mean these dodgy 3 bedroom houses sale agreed a few days ago in the Ballymena area?

http://www.propertyp...dential&st=sale

House 1, 3 bedroom house 50k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 608 pa total 5513 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 2, 3 bedroom house 48k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 376 pa total 5281 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 4, 3 bedroom house 40k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 645 pa total 5550 pa Gross yield 13.8%..

Minimum gross yield of 11% assuming the property sold for the asking price,sounds ok to me. But I would buy at auction or direct from the bank (i've been offered a few like for around 30k ish each.

As for lots and lots of BTL's in Ballymena. There's no more than in other similar areas.

Larne Area 58 available
Ballymoney Area 63 available
Ballymena Area 65 available
Carrickfergus Area 73 available
Coleraine Area 381available (big student area)


I'm all for ppl having endeavour to make money, having said that I am not a fan of the levels of housing benefit that are currently provided by the government. I really do hope the bottom falls out of it ... and soon.

There are so many private landlords dependant on DHSS payments it is unreal. The sooner it is reformed the better. Its a personal opinion of mine but it doesnt sit well with me that someone can borrow money on an interest only basis, then charge a rent which covers the interest payments on the loan and the rates for the property with the government then duly paying for this under the housing benefit scheme. Realistically it is the tax payer who picks up the bill for what many have viewed as a 'get rich quick scheme'. I hope that those who abuse this system on all sides get whats coming to them, with the pending benefit reforms they probably will and when the sh** hits the fan it will be messy.

Its all not a fairy tale story as you may make out. I know of a house in an area similar which recently went without a tenant for 2 weeks. Within this period the house was stripped from top to bottom by the friendly locals. The very flag stones in the garden where lifted ... either way you would have had hefty insurance premiums to pay or a large bill to put the house back to normal. Bye bye rental yield.

Might work for some ... but it has a shelf life and will prob bring more probs than it is worth in the long run. Good luck to you if you think otherwise

#4 S S

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:10 AM

I'm all for ppl having endeavour to make money, having said that I am not a fan of the levels of housing benefit that are currently provided by the government. I really do hope the bottom falls out of it ... and soon.

There are so many private landlords dependant on DHSS payments it is unreal. The sooner it is reformed the better. Its a personal opinion of mine but it doesnt sit well with me that someone can borrow money on an interest only basis, then charge a rent which covers the interest payments on the loan and the rates for the property with the government then duly paying for this under the housing benefit scheme. Realistically it is the tax payer who picks up the bill for what many have viewed as a 'get rich quick scheme'. I hope that those who abuse this system on all sides get whats coming to them, with the pending benefit reforms they probably will and when the sh** hits the fan it will be messy.

Its all not a fairy tale story as you may make out. I know of a house in an area similar which recently went without a tenant for 2 weeks. Within this period the house was stripped from top to bottom by the friendly locals. The very flag stones in the garden where lifted ... either way you would have had hefty insurance premiums to pay or a large bill to put the house back to normal. Bye bye rental yield.

Might work for some ... but it has a shelf life and will prob bring more probs than it is worth in the long run. Good luck to you if you think otherwise


It was reformed on the 1st of April this year. The next change is the 25 year old single allowance changing to 35 year old, but they don't rent 3 bedroom houses. As for the tax payer getting value for money, I couldn't imagine any government building housing for social need efficiently. Any rent collected from those efficently built houses would be eaten up by a pyramind of administrators and managers in high paid jobs with unaffordable pensions, never mind the taxpayer shelling out bundles of money to a politican's mate to maintain the properties. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Totally agree it wouldn't be for everyone, but then your job may not be for everyone. To a professional landlord or someone who has the time and money, the returns are starting to look more worth the effort involved. Keep in mind the example of those houses sale agreed may have been sold for less then their advertised price pushing up the yield.

It always amazes me when people talk about how much hassle being a landlord would be, I've never made money easily, I've always had to work at it. What job do you do? If it's not a hassle sometimes I would think the pay aint to good. Your example of a house being stripped is interesting, however is an extreme example and extremes can be used for both sides in any discussion, interesting but pointless.

#5 S S

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:01 PM

Do you mean these dodgy 3 bedroom houses sale agreed a few days ago in the Ballymena area?

http://www.propertyp...dential&st=sale

House 1, 3 bedroom house 50k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 608 pa total 5513 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 2, 3 bedroom house 48k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 376 pa total 5281 pa Gross yield 11%.

House 4, 3 bedroom house 40k DHSS tenant 94.33 per week 4905 pa + rates @ 645 pa total 5550 pa Gross yield 13.8%..

Minimum gross yield of 11% assuming the property sold for the asking price,sounds ok to me. But I would buy at auction or direct from the bank (i've been offered a few like for around 30k ish each.

As for lots and lots of BTL's in Ballymena. There's no more than in other similar areas.

Larne Area 58 available
Ballymoney Area 63 available
Ballymena Area 65 available
Carrickfergus Area 73 available
Coleraine Area 381available (big student area)


Two more "dodgy" houses sale agreed in Ballymena, someone must see value.

http://www.propertyp...dential&st=sale

Edited by S S, 03 November 2011 - 01:01 PM.


#6 tinbin

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:08 PM

It was reformed on the 1st of April this year. The next change is the 25 year old single allowance changing to 35 year old, but they don't rent 3 bedroom houses. As for the tax payer getting value for money, I couldn't imagine any government building housing for social need efficiently. Any rent collected from those efficently built houses would be eaten up by a pyramind of administrators and managers in high paid jobs with unaffordable pensions, never mind the taxpayer shelling out bundles of money to a politican's mate to maintain the properties. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Totally agree it wouldn't be for everyone, but then your job may not be for everyone. To a professional landlord or someone who has the time and money, the returns are starting to look more worth the effort involved. Keep in mind the example of those houses sale agreed may have been sold for less then their advertised price pushing up the yield.

It always amazes me when people talk about how much hassle being a landlord would be, I've never made money easily, I've always had to work at it. What job do you do? If it's not a hassle sometimes I would think the pay aint to good. Your example of a house being stripped is interesting, however is an extreme example and extremes can be used for both sides in any discussion, interesting but pointless.


I dont think my point is at all pointless (but then I wouldn't). It may be extreme but it is a reality. Just like during the winter freeze last Christmas when plumbing bills must have been through the roof for private landlords.

As you have said, it is not for everyone. My points are as a result of hearing boastful comments from Landlords about the rental yields and how fantastic they are, and forgive me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that I recall reading what could be taken as boastful comments from yourself a while back. They are not as good as they are made out to be taking all factors into consideration. Being a landlord (IMO) has plenty of drawbacks to make it unappealing - Maintenance fee's, insurance, tax, capital gains tax and potential Inheritance tax issues further down the line.

To be honest, it doesn't bother me if someone is using their own capital to build up a 'property empire'. Personally I think there are better ways to invest capital, but that's my opinion.These days they will most likely have to as the Lenders are generally not interested in loans for Investment properties.They too have woke up and realised that they made a lot of ppl rich while they took all the risk in the past. The market is down from where it was so of course it may seem appealing to some but at the end of the day the market is flooded with investment properties.

It depends how you look it, but personally I think it is a flawed business plan to be totally dependant on the state for the rental income. Figures of 70% of private landlords being dependant on Housing benefit confirms this. If its working for you then fair play. Many more benefit reforms have still to come with NI particularly focusing on reducing benefit fraud. If you don't think that this will have a knock on effect then more power to you. When the sh** hits the fan and you are unable to sell your lower ended property empire I hope your professional Landlord skills will serve you well.

Edited by tinbin, 03 November 2011 - 02:09 PM.


#7 lolacarrascal

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:44 PM

Figures of 70% of private landlords being dependant on Housing benefit confirms this.

Of course the flipside of this is that local government must be dependant on the private sector to meet 70% of its social housing obligations.

SS posts are welcome relief from the doom and gloom and I congratulate him on showing the kind of entrepreneurial drive that this country needs if it is ever going to create real wealth again. I wish there were more like him willing to take a calculated business risk rather than the often ineffective and ineffiicent large public service that we have in NI which often seems to have created a self serving bureaucracy of paper pushing indecision and non-value adding processes.

Edited by lolacarrascal, 03 November 2011 - 02:45 PM.


#8 S S

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:57 PM

When the sh** hits the fan and you are unable to sell your lower ended property empire I hope your professional Landlord skills will serve you well.



Calm down dear. Your point is not at all pointless but your example is extreme, in the same way a story of a landlord sitting on his backside while he counts his rental income every month is, but you could argue that is reality.

I wouldn't call myself a professional landlord, I have 2 properties i rent out, one repossessed, one nearly repossessed, not exactly what I would call a property empire and neither are rented to DHSS tenants. I've provide two young families with a well maintained familly homes in a nice area which they can afford, something the local council couldn't do.

When the sh** hits the fan where are the people who's houses are repossessed going to live? Do they just disappear?

Stop believing everything you read on the internet.

#9 tinbin

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:22 PM

Of course the flipside of this is that local government must be dependant on the private sector to meet 70% of its social housing obligations.


Not necessarily. What about the fraudsters who abuse the housing benefit system simply because they can? Take them out of the equation and this figure will most certainly reduce.

SS posts are welcome relief from the doom and gloom and I congratulate him on showing the kind of entrepreneurial drive that this country needs if it is ever going to create real wealth again.


I don't recall knocking 'entrepreneurial drive' ... did this country ever have any real wealth anyway? Try setting up a small business these days to find more doors closing on you than opening - very motivational for the 'entrepreneurial drive'. The housing bubble was a major contributor to this situation in the economy.

There is a certain irony about encouraging housing investment which is primarily then paid for by the goverment to kick start 'entrepreneurial drive' & the economy IMO.

Im not that fussed about SS posts, they certainly don't cause me any offence in any way.

I wish there were more like him willing to take a calculated business risk rather than the often ineffective and inefficient large public service that we have in NI which often seems to have created a self serving bureaucracy of paper pushing indecision and non-value adding processes.


Agreed ... however most landlords who entered, outpriced FTBers and flooded the market during the boom did anything but take a calculated business risk.

Edited by tinbin, 03 November 2011 - 03:22 PM.


#10 tinbin

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:25 PM

Calm down dear. Your point is not at all pointless but your example is extreme, in the same way a story of a landlord sitting on his backside while he counts his rental income every month is, but you could argue that is reality.

I wouldn't call myself a professional landlord, I have 2 properties i rent out, one repossessed, one nearly repossessed, not exactly what I would call a property empire and neither are rented to DHSS tenants. I've provide two young families with a well maintained familly homes in a nice area which they can afford, something the local council couldn't do.

When the sh** hits the fan where are the people who's houses are repossessed going to live? Do they just disappear?

Stop believing everything you read on the internet.


lol @ calm down dear :rolleyes:

I don't read anything on the internet ... apart from HPC Forum of course

#11 2buyornot2buy

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:27 PM

If our idea of entrepreneurialism in NI is to buy up 2 bed houses (usually with leverage) and rent them out to HB tenants, then as a small business owner and tax payer I despair. There really is little hope for us here.

#12 lolacarrascal

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:44 PM

If our idea of entrepreneurialism in NI is to buy up 2 bed houses (usually with leverage) and rent them out to HB tenants, then as a small business owner and tax payer I despair. There really is little hope for us here.

You despair! Why so? The most powerful economy in Europe seems to get by quite nicely renting houses to each other. I'm not saying the system is prefect, of course it isn't, but you need people like SS who are able to lend real support to helping the economy. I'm guessing he employs a few trades to get these houses ready for occupation, the trades spend a bit more in the shops, who don't then have to cut back on staff etc as so it goes on. I'd rather that than local communities blighted by boarded up derelicts and families with nowhere decent to live - the fact that the government's social housing policy is a pile crap is another issue.

Edited by lolacarrascal, 03 November 2011 - 05:06 PM.


#13 lolacarrascal

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:04 PM

Not necessarily. What about the fraudsters who abuse the housing benefit system simply because they can? Take them out of the equation and this figure will most certainly reduce.



I don't recall knocking 'entrepreneurial drive' ... did this country ever have any real wealth anyway? Try setting up a small business these days to find more doors closing on you than opening - very motivational for the 'entrepreneurial drive'. The housing bubble was a major contributor to this situation in the economy.

There is a certain irony about encouraging housing investment which is primarily then paid for by the goverment to kick start 'entrepreneurial drive' & the economy IMO.

Im not that fussed about SS posts, they certainly don't cause me any offence in any way.



Agreed ... however most landlords who entered, outpriced FTBers and flooded the market during the boom did anything but take a calculated business risk.


I don't recall you knocking 'entrepreneurial drive' either. Fraudster's exist because they can, they can because the government system can be abused, and they do it without fear of the consequences - just another series of inter-related crap public policicies than needs fixed.

I don't see any irony about encouraging housing investment from the private sector, bet my last penny that they can do it cheaper than the public sector. How come Germany can have a large rented sector and the sky doesn't fall down. As I mentioned in another post, the fact that the government's housing and benefits policies aren't fit for purpose is for another debate, but just for now that's the reality and thank goodness people like SS are prepared to fill the gap whilst the government and the public sector seem incapable to providing a viable alternative any time soon.

#14 bewildering

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 05:53 PM

Now that house prices have dropped 50%, going into the BTL business makes more sense than two years ago. And those yields do look attractive.

Germany is not a good example for the UK, Ireland or the US. If you chat to germans you understand why their property market did not undergo a massive boom and subsequent bust. There are strict laws in germany covering property. Flipping houses is impossible in Germany - the government will tax any short term gains at a huge rate. You are very limited in adjusting rents - there are strict rent control rules. Property must be maintained to a very high standard - the local councils will hang you out to dry if you do not meet standards. These laws, along with others, make renters comfortable long term in germany as they are protected.

I assume there will be housing benefit reform. As we just don't have the money to support this benefit with a 10% budget deficit. This is just a simple fact.

#15 lolacarrascal

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 06:17 PM

Germany is not a good example for the UK, Ireland or the US. If you chat to germans you understand why their property market did not undergo a massive boom and subsequent bust. There are strict laws in germany covering property. Flipping houses is impossible in Germany - the government will tax any short term gains at a huge rate. You are very limited in adjusting rents - there are strict rent control rules. Property must be maintained to a very high standard - the local councils will hang you out to dry if you do not meet standards. These laws, along with others, make renters comfortable long term in germany as they are protected.


People wouldn't become landlords if they didn't get an attractive return on their investment and as you say people in Germany are comfortable renting long term - so why not a good example and from whose perspective?




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