[Number79]

We all see them, bent coins, cast sovs, chinese copies, assholes with father just died stories, coins that dont weight right etc etc

The more experience that you have dealing with gold and silver coins then the less likely that it is that you will accept a dudd.

If you have a coin that you arent sure about then post the pics here and I will let you know. I specialialise in sovs mostly but know most coins and know people that can spot anything.

MOST IMPORTANTLY IF YOU SPOT AN EBAY LISTING THAT IS NOT RIGHT THEN POST IT HERE..

IF YOU SEE CHINESE COINS WITH NO DENOMINATION THEN LIST THE ITEM NUMBER HERE

Be careful of slabbed coins, the chinese do a very good line in pcgs and ngc packs.


WHEN WE SEE SELLERS TAKING THE MICHAEL WITH DAFT PRICES THEN POST THE LISTING HERE SO THAT WE CAN ALL PASS COMMENT,

Lets take it to feebay and kill off the assholes and scammers.

[jonesinamillion]

PM sales will always attract scammers due to the sums of money involved; every little helps though!

[Number79]

jonesinamillion, on 22 June 2011 - 10:22 PM, said:

PM sales will always attract scammers due to the sums of money involved; every little helps though!

yep but not so many can spot them from a picture as others can

I want to help buyers just as much as I want assholes to be inundated with messages about daft prices.

There isnt a coin that I cant find out about and that is my guarantee and challenge.

[General Congreve]

Number79, on 22 June 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

yep but not so many can spot them from a picture as others can

I want to help buyers just as much as I want assholes to be inundated with messages about daft prices.

There isnt a coin that I cant find out about and that is my guarantee and challenge.

I would hope that reputable sellers will have good feedback ratings for other gold they have sold. If not, then it is up to the individual to take the risk.

But why pay pretty much the same amount on ebay when you get it for the same price from reputable dealers?

[MrFlibble]

Interesting thread, can certainly contribute with regards to Krugerrands.

So far I've not had a dud, or at least haven't been able to detect one. Detected many dodgy looking eBay auctions though

My only worry is cored tungsten, however I've not seen or heard of any coins yet. Be interested to know what could be used to detect one of these, ultrasound maybe?

[Old Nis]

It's very difficult to detect tungsten cores non-destructively. The machines cost a very large sum of money. The only quick way is to melt or cut the bar. You either get an obvious sandwich effect or lumps of tungsten floating in a golden soup. Bit problematic with numismatic coins, which of course is where the Chinese win out. I have never bought a Panda gold or silver coin for that reason.

Be wary of any coins that look too marked or scratched, as well. The Chinese fakes are often "aged" but they can't easily mimic the gentle, long-term rubbing of genuine age or patina. Multiple deep scratches are often a bad sign - and don't do much for the long-term numismatic value, either.

[MrFlibble]

Thought I'd do some research in town at the cash4gold joint and also the local jeweller. Took in a couple of Krugerrands to see what I could get for them and also what testing would be done to check authenticity.

The cash4gold joint would give me £900 each, but once he checked the coins that amount dropped to £885 for one of them. Apparently the gizmo he used (XRF Analyzer), which he admitted wasn't calibrated, told him one of the coins was only 90% Gold. He claimed the other one was spot on.

The Jeweller offered me £860 each and wouldn't even match the other guys £900. This guys method of testing was simply a scale. After I explained what the cash4gold guy said he just commented that nobody would fake a coin with 90% Gold. Other that looking at the coin afterwards with his eyeglass he did no further testing or measuring.

For reference this mornings fix was £949. Krugerrands are 22kt Gold (91.67% Gold). I checked the coins myself and both were the correct weight, size and rang like a bell.

Not sure if the XL2 device is any good or not but it occurred to me that shifting a tungsten cored coin via a Jewellers would be a piece of piss.

[Number79]

Tungsten krugs dont ring.

They do fool jewellers and coin dealers, I know this.

Only know of one tungsten krug but expect to hear of many more.

Know of chinese sellers knocking out coins pretty close to weight.

Seen chinese fakes in very good slabs.

I see ;ots of bent coins on feebay and would have thought that there would have been more interest here. Is it that most hpc'ers dont buy on feebay or we just see it as buyers risk and tough tits?

[MrFlibble]

Number79, on 24 June 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

Tungsten krugs dont ring.

They do fool jewellers and coin dealers, I know this.

Only know of one tungsten krug but expect to hear of many more.

Know of chinese sellers knocking out coins pretty close to weight.

Seen chinese fakes in very good slabs.

I see ;ots of bent coins on feebay and would have thought that there would have been more interest here. Is it that most hpc'ers dont buy on feebay or we just see it as buyers risk and tough tits?

Very Interesting. Neither place I took the coins to performed the ring test. It is something I always do, but more so because I like to hear the ring. Do the Tungsten coins ring differently or not at all like a Maple? Ironic really that the very basic of test would appear to the the best way to check for the most advanced counterfeit.

Do you have first hand knowledge of this Tungsten Krugerrand? I would be very interested to hear more about it. If there's one out there then odds are there's another million that came off the same production line in China.

Like you, I thought there would be more interest in this subject. I've bought from all over the place in the past, my reason being simple, if I cannot authenticate something myself then I'm screwed and left trusting someone else, which is no good at all. The best weapon is knowledge, which is why I'm always keen to acquire more of it from people more knowledgeable than myself.

[ken_ichikawa]

Tbh it is why I prefer sovs as they are so small they are going to be harder to stick tungsten cores in them.

In fact how do you do the ring test on gold? I can usually get a nice ping from my silver by sticking it in a plastic bag and hitting it with a hammer, but I don't want to do this with me gold! .925, .999 and .5 silver all sound very slightly different.

[MrFlibble]

ken_ichikawa, on 25 June 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

Tbh it is why I prefer sovs as they are so small they are going to be harder to stick tungsten cores in them.

In fact how do you do the ring test on gold? I can usually get a nice ping from my silver by sticking it in a plastic bag and hitting it with a hammer, but I don't want to do this with me gold! .925, .999 and .5 silver all sound very slightly different.

Nothing too exotic with me, just balance a coin on one finger and tap it with a pencil, the harder it's tapped the longer it rings.

[Number79]

I dont have first hand with the fake krug.

There was a poster here that asked me about a krug that he thought looked slightly different to his others so I told him how to do the ring test.

He couldnt get it to ring, there was just a dull thud.

He mailed me to say that he took it back to the long established coin dealer that he bought it from who checked and weighed it and said it was fine. The poster told him about the ring test and the dealer tried but only got a thud unlike the ring from his other krugs.

The dealer cut it in half and the krug had some sort of greyish center. I never found out what it was, whether it was a slug or powder mix but am assuming that it had to be tungsten. If the coin was good enough to fool a guy that has been handling gold for so many years and makes a living from coins then it must have been good.

[MrFlibble]

Cheers for the information, a gooey centre of Tungsten is the last thing one wants

Looking on the net for examples always comes up blank, it's discussed quite a lot but I've yet to see a picture or video of a cored coin.

The only one I've seen is the cored bar found in Germany, but the YouTube video for this is sketchy at best.

[Number79]

likewise, I would have liked to see a picture.

I have kept an eye out for a fake krug that weighs right although not found one yet. There are a couple of chinese sellers that have fake krugs but I have yet to find out what they weigh.

[urban_hymn]

You can buy a Fisch coin detector on eBay for about £100.00. One model will do both Gold Eagles and Krugerrands. Given the value these have now reached it's probably worth investing in one if you have a stash.

I take comfort in the fact that my phizz was bought mainly in 2005/2006 before the incentive for forgery became so compelling.