House Price Crash forum: FUKUSHIMA earthquake and tsunami thread and aftermath - House Price Crash forum

Jump to content

powered by
  • (441 Pages) +
  • « First
  • 424
  • 425
  • 426
  • 427
  • 428
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

FUKUSHIMA earthquake and tsunami thread and aftermath MULTIPLE MERGED THREADS Rate Topic: -----

#6376 User is offline   Bloo Loo 

  • Ripened on the Diversity Vine
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 51,495
  • Joined: 27-August 07

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:11 PM

View Postsnowflux, on 12 July 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Just because you don't understand the reasoning behind a prediction does not make it a guess. I don't understand why you would dismiss the hazards of one form of energy generation out of hand, while expressing extreme concern about the hazards of another, even though both are subject to uncertainties.


you are suggesting I have an extreme view. Thats why you cant understand it....because its not true.
WARNING

Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it





#6377 User is offline   shipbuilder 

  • HPC Senior Veteran
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,369
  • Joined: 28-May 08

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

View Postweaker, on 12 July 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

The tone IS the same as any other MSM report - completely agree. Let's not frighten the public.
Let's not even give them the information so that they can decide for themselves if it's safe to eat tuna or swim in the Pacific.

It isn't just me..
http://www.youtube.c...bi1Q4aZ8#at=174

Here's a more scientific approach (I actually got the image I posted from a google image search for "tuna fukushima", so I don't know where it came from:
http://www.washingto...od-for-you.html


Here it is about as official as it gets:
http://www.biogeosci...0-6377-2013.pdf


http://www.radiation...ubs/HS42_1F.pdf




and some background largely unreported:
http://fukushimaupda...histle-blowing/


http://www.scirp.org...x?PaperID=28599


http://www.newscient...n-exposure.html


So please don't try to tell me the BBC are doing a good impartial job.


Perhaps you may have made a better case for yourself by referring to these sources in the first place, rather than attacking another poster and the BBC?

On the other hand -

The second link claims that dangers of low levels of radiation are understated.
The third link claims that levels of radiation are much higher than normal.
The fourth link claims that high levels of radiation were released and have caused health issues.
The fifth link reports that soldiers are claiming health effects, although the author links to sources that claim low levels of radiation and quotes a scientist who says that health effects would take longer to develop.

So not exactly a consistent picture. I would say that the BBC largely takes the New Scientist line.
All you have shown here is that the media in general do not report stories in huge detail, tend to use 'official' data to report and that further research into any topic will reveal other points of view.
Not really very surprising?
"If human vices such as greed or envy are systematically cultivated, the inevitable result is nothing less than a collapse of intelligence. A man driven by greed or envy loses the power of seeing things as they really are, of seeing things in their roundness and wholeness, and his very successes become failures. If whole societies become infected by these vices, they may indeed achieve astonishing things but they become increasingly incapable of solving the most elementary problems of everyday existence. The Gross National Product may rise rapidly: as measured by statisticians but not as experienced by actual people, who find themselves oppressed by increasing frustration, alienation, insecurity, and so forth. After a while, even the Gross National Product refuses to rise any further, not because of scientific or technological failure, but because of a creeping paralysis of non-cooperation, as expressed in various types of escapism on the part, not only of the oppressed and exploited, but even of highly privileged groups"

E.F. Schumacher, 'Small is Beautiful', 1973.

"Modern methods of production have given us the possibility of ease and security for all; we have chosen, instead, to have overwork for some and starvation for others. Hitherto we have continued to be as energetic as we were before there were machines; in this we have been foolish, but there is no reason to go on being foolish forever".

Bertrand Russell, 'In Praise of Idleness', 1932.

"The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people nave enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau, 'Discourse on Inequality', 1754.

#6378 User is offline   snowflux 

  • HPC Senior Veteran
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,763
  • Joined: 09-April 08

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:16 PM

View PostDeepLurker, on 12 July 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

No, it's uncertainty that's dangerous.

At the moment, I have no way of knowing exactly the level of risk involved with the use of nuclear power[1]. Without that knowledge, I'm firmly in the "thanks, but no thanks" camp.

[1] By that, I mean that official declarations on the radiation levels after an accident seem to be always laughably underestimated (cf. Chernobyl, Fukushima). Which means I cannot trust the official scientists any more. And the only other people measuring the radiation levels are the tree huggers, which means that I have no trustworthy data at all...

Now apply the same logic to every other form of energy generation, and you'll be sitting in the dark.

#6379 User is offline   Bloo Loo 

  • Ripened on the Diversity Vine
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 51,495
  • Joined: 27-August 07

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:22 PM

View Postsnowflux, on 12 July 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Now apply the same logic to every other form of energy generation, and you'll be sitting in the dark.


we have been burning carbons for thousands of years.

We stop burning it when smoke gets in our eyes..

and for this reason, we use smokeless fuels in the UK, particulates filters in cars and add gas filters to power plants.

One cant see radiation, most people cant detect it, and we rely on our lying Governments to protect us...do you see a difference? Bear in mind scumbag Company managers have been known to dump known toxic waste into rivers, into lakes and aquafers, allowed run off from their fields, all without one iota of giving a frack for the people they damage...and you would like me to trust the Nuclear Lobby, or the Tax the Carbon lobby?...( meanwhile allowing Chinese power generation to remain filthy dirty and fail to penalise them with import taxes).

This post has been edited by Bloo Loo: 12 July 2013 - 01:23 PM

WARNING

Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it





#6380 User is offline   snowflux 

  • HPC Senior Veteran
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,763
  • Joined: 09-April 08

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostBloo Loo, on 12 July 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

you are suggesting I have an extreme view. Thats why you cant understand it....because its not true.

I wrote that you were expressing extreme concern (about the use of nuclear power). Are you not extremely concerned about the use of nuclear power?

If it's any consolation, I also used to oppose nuclear power and am still not exactly enamoured wiht it. However, in the face of new evidence and thinking, I've come to accept its use as a lesser evil.

#6381 User is offline   snowflux 

  • HPC Senior Veteran
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,763
  • Joined: 09-April 08

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

View PostBloo Loo, on 12 July 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

we have been burning carbons for thousands of years.

We stop burning it when smoke gets in our eyes..

and for this reason, we use smokeless fuels in the UK, particulates filters in cars and add gas filters to power plants.

One cant see radiation, most people cant detect it, and we rely on our lying Governments to protect us...do you see a difference? Bear in mind scumbag Company managers have been known to dump known toxic waste into rivers, into lakes and aquafers, allowed run off from their fields, all without one iota of giving a frack for the people they damage...and you would like me to trust the Nuclear Lobby, or the Tax the Carbon lobby?...( meanwhile allowing Chinese power generation to remain filthy dirty and fail to penalise them with import taxes).

You can't see increasing levels of CO2, either, but for some reason assume that it doesn't matter. Double standards again on your part.

#6382 User is offline   Bloo Loo 

  • Ripened on the Diversity Vine
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 51,495
  • Joined: 27-August 07

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

View Postsnowflux, on 12 July 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

You can't see increasing levels of CO2, either, but for some reason assume that it doesn't matter. Double standards again on your part.


I dont need to...i see taxes where they say CO2 is rising...

I am told its heating up, I am told its cooling, I am told its the contrails, I am told its CO2 is a cooling mechanism. There is no conclusion, there is thesis.

Now where is that virtually free energy from nuclear....of course it never existed, because the cost of containment and disposal is never factored in....in fact, they had so much waste, they leave it in tanks of ever cooling water.
WARNING

Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it





#6383 User is online   fluffy666 

  • I live on HPC!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9,739
  • Joined: 29-October 07

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:57 PM

View PostBloo Loo, on 12 July 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Of course, energy, by its nature is dangerous...people die in cars, electrocutions and other things every day. You cant produce energy without side effects...its just impossible.

But, Nuclear remains in the environment for way beyond 50 generations....and Fukushima is going to be pumping this poison out for ever as far as I and my family are concerned.


The CO2 emissions will not be 'scrubbed' totally for about 100,000 years.

The Cesium and Strontium isotopes have a half-life of about 30 years; the actinides (U, Pu etc) don't actually move much - they will kill you if you eat them, but that applies to a lot of things.

But let's put it like this.

You have no option but to play Russian Roulette. The only option you have is how many chambers are loaded.

#6384 User is offline   Bloo Loo 

  • Ripened on the Diversity Vine
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 51,495
  • Joined: 27-August 07

Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

View Postfluffy666, on 12 July 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

The CO2 emissions will not be 'scrubbed' totally for about 100,000 years.

The Cesium and Strontium isotopes have a half-life of about 30 years; the actinides (U, Pu etc) don't actually move much - they will kill you if you eat them, but that applies to a lot of things.

But let's put it like this.

You have no option but to play Russian Roulette. The only option you have is how many chambers are loaded.


all I know, is that the more CO2, the more plants thrive.

My personal belief is that CO2 is (so im told) rising due to the burning down of rainforests so plants are not there to consume it. whether it heats or warms the Earth, I dont think we can do much while Globalist *****sters are making money in China.
WARNING

Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it





#6385 User is offline   Onion Boy 

  • HPC Poster
  • PipPip
  • Group: New Members
  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: 07-April 13

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

View Postweaker, on 12 July 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

I find this comment to be one of the scariest I have ever seen here.
Do you get spoonfed all your news from the BBC or something?
The real news media have been screaming about this and all the other leaks since it happened.
Did you know the leader of the explosion response team af Fukushima died of cancer a few days ago?
You know, your friendly BBC aren't going to talk about this (and you actually pay for that cr*p!).

BTW, don't eat the tuna, they concentrate heavy metals like mercury anyway - but that must also apply to Caesium-137 (half-life 30.7 years) , Strontium-90 (half life 28.8 years) etc.
Posted Image



What's happened in fuku

No. But when msm admit to something such as this, it either means the truth is opposite or is on the same pole but far, far worse. Seems it might be the latter in this case, unless it's a conspiracy to drive up seafood prices and/or force trade embargos on certain states.

You came across a tad abusive there, bit rude really.

I only woke up a few weeks ago to "the way" believe it or not. Wish I hadn't. There are still things I've yet to consider in light of my born again status - radiation cover ups is one of those particularly pertinent. I have family living close to decommissioned nuclear submarines.

#6386 User is offline   Mr Jib Fingers 

  • HPC Regular
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 664
  • Joined: 04-August 06

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

Next stupid question.

Won't the radiation in the pacific ocean be incredibly diluted? It's the largest ocean on earth and gets miles deep in the middle.

#6387 User is offline   Nuggets Mahoney 

  • I live on HPC!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,664
  • Joined: 22-January 09

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostOnion Boy, on 12 July 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I only woke up a few weeks ago to "the way" believe it or not. Wish I hadn't. There are still things I've yet to consider in light of my born again status - radiation cover ups is one of those particularly pertinent. I have family living close to decommissioned nuclear submarines.

If I understand your comment correctly, you and a fair few other people I would warrant - the financial shenanigans going on around the world, the NSA thing, the interventions in the Middle East and Asia, all sorts, often in broad daylight, take your pick. We really are in sore need of something to take our mind off things.

For all things Fukushima, this news aggregate site, maintained by a couple of independent conspiranauts, features stories that sometimes don't travel beyond Far Eastern media...

Fukushima Update
edit: typo

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that many are not genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

#6388 User is offline   The Masked Tulip 

  • I live on HPC!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 37,320
  • Joined: 23-August 04

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:55 PM

View PostCaptain Cavey, on 12 July 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

no need to dig - there's a standard technique for lowering the permeability of a rock mass that comprises injecting a cementiceous grout at high pressure from a series of drill holes in a closly spaced pattern. This is used in the constructions of dams to prevent excessive leakage off the water beneath the dams foundation. I'd be surprised if the plant didn't have one in the first place, but it may not have been been extensive enough to stop the volume of contaminated water now present.



I suppose the radioactivity is the problem now in doing anything like this - getting the kit in place would be difficult, let alone actually doing the work?

I read that the plant's manager - who led the attempt to save the plant - died this week from cancer of the throat. He was just 57. Brave man.
The success or failure of your deeds does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intention of your actions and by the strength you faced the challenges that have stood in your way.

The people closest to you have been trying to tell you that you have made a difference. That you did change things for the better. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing that we can ever truly control - whether we are good or evil.


The political triumph of the American Right has been to advance relentlessly the economic interests of the country's richest people, while emphasising a swath of moral, social and foreign policy issues that motivate and certainly distract middle-class and poor voters.

#6389 User is offline   Nuggets Mahoney 

  • I live on HPC!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,664
  • Joined: 22-January 09

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:56 PM

View PostMr Jib Fingers, on 12 July 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Next stupid question.

Won't the radiation in the pacific ocean be incredibly diluted? It's the largest ocean on earth and gets miles deep in the middle.


That'd depend on what mechanism you'd expect to mix all that waste up evenly across the Pacific. And how long you'd expect it'd take to do the job.

This post has been edited by Nuggets Mahoney: 12 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

edit: typo

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that many are not genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

#6390 User is online   aSecureTenant 

  • Formerly Socially Housed and 'Steed'
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 20,561
  • Joined: 21-May 07

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostMr Jib Fingers, on 12 July 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Next stupid question.

Won't the radiation in the pacific ocean be incredibly diluted? It's the largest ocean on earth and gets miles deep in the middle.


This is the main risk as I see it:

Posted Image
"Capitalism has defeated communism. It is now well on its way to defeating democracy" - David Korten

"The real tragedy is not whether lib lab or con will win but that one of them will" - Sir Harold m



  • (441 Pages) +
  • « First
  • 424
  • 425
  • 426
  • 427
  • 428
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users