So What Was A Ftb Place In Years Gone By

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Me and my wife earn loads below the supposed mean average wage, but we have everything we need, because we have little debt ( and the little with have is education-debt, not shopaholic debt), buy many things second-hand, make full use of things others are throwing away, and don't jump on every consumer fad. We cook 95% of our meals from scratch, shop in bulk, buy groceries from the market.

It's not breadlining - it's just thinking through spending. When you do this, you are almost embarrassed by how much good stuff comes your way, while others freak out over their huge credit card bills.

People on two times, three times, our incomes are always moaning about lack of money but shopping at full-price megamalls is their only hobby.

If there was 2000-type housing costs again, we could live like kings on our modest incomes.

The danger is if people get wise to the emptyness of work/stress/spend/debt/repeat life, consumer society goes belly up. Better ramp up housing costs to keep the serfs' noses on the grindstone.

[zzg113]

Better ramp up housing costs to keep the serfs' noses on the grindstone.

Never a truer word said in jest. Think about it: if housing was cheap and plentiful, what is the incentive for people to work their hands to the bone/commute hundreds of miles every day? Not much is it? The only way to keep the population slaving away and producing economic growth is to keep the debt burden high. Don't let them get a sniff of financial freedom or they'll never work again!

[Loftus Road]

I have no debts at all and pay off what little is on the CC each month. It does give you a great feeling of liberty and flexibility. I've been renting for 15 odd years and sometimes I do feel it would be very difficult handling a mortgage even if was affordable. It would be the thought of being tied down for so many years. I've pared down my way of life so I actually have very little. I could jack the job in tomorrow and move. Is this healthy? I don't know.

Mind you, I'm spoiling myself this Xmas and heading off to Thailand for 2 weeks!

[zzg113]

what job do you do, if I may ask? Is it one where you have to move around a lot?

[Topher Bear]

Many chavs round here spend hundreds per month just on the mobile bill (mines £20.00).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can beat that! Mine has been £20 since I've had it (only about 6 months! and its gonna go in the bin when I get a job!) but then I do spend £25 a month on internet!

gotta go do x-mas cards now

[doogie]

Back on topic...

My parents' first home was a 4 bedroom semi in Hampstead Garden Suburb (north London) and they're still living there!!

It was bought for them as a wedding present from my grandparents, who were middle class and reasonably wealthy, though not ridiculously so.

It cost £8,750 in 1965 and would probably now fetch around the £1 million mark (having trebled in the last decade), though it could do with some serious updating.

[Martello]

My first buy was a 2 bed maisonette in a West London in 1979. It was in a very nice area (was being the operative word - it is a dump now). It cost me £22600 and I had saved £4600 (having moved back home with Ma and Pa for a couple of years after a relationship break up).

So I had an 18k mortgage. At the time I was earning £7.5k - maybe a slightly better than average wage - but certainly not by much. I did not need a partner to help me with the mortgage.

My father in law bought a 4 bed detached in the early 60s as his first home. Wife worked part time just to get out of the house.

My eldest brother bought a 3 bed detached in the early 70s as his first home. Wife did not work then.

My next brother up bought a 2 bed flat for 9k in late 60s - he was earning about £60 a week as a TV engineer at the time. He moved to a 3 bed terrace a couple of years later (11k) and had his two children. Wife did not have to work.

Lots of friends - particularly those that got married young (say under 25) moved straight into 2 or 3 bed terraces or semis.

I bought a flat at 27, mates who got married a few years before me bought houses. Even then we were conscious of missing the boat as prices moved up dramatically from time to time.

I can't understand the people on here who say it was just as big a struggle then. Not in my experience. Now I can't see anyway an average FTB can get started - certainly not in the Southern half of the country. Its very depressing thinking your children are going to have to move hundreds of miles away (or abroad) when they want to settle down.

[laurejon]

Paid £31000 for 2 bed victorian terrace in 1996 on my own, earning £11000.

No way could I do that today, same house currently worth £100000+. Feel sorry for ftbs  . Hopefully big falls for 2005-2006...

A course in economics for you.

You state that in 96 you paid 31k for a semi on a salary of 11k

Now interests rates in 96 were 8% for mortgages (Thats not base rate).

You would have taken home on a salary of 11k around 687 quid a month, your mortgage at 8% interest only would have been £206 pcm if repayment around 250pcm but keep it simple say interest only at 206pcm

So your take home of £687.00 minus mortgage leaves around £487 pcm to live on.

Today your average wage would take home 1562:00 based on the UK average of 25K.

You could borrow 100k interest only as before for 4.95% so your repyments would be £412 leaving you with over £1100 to live on for the month.

So today despite the perception of high house prices the reality is that wages too have kept abreast and you would be better off today owing 100k than in 96 owing 31k.

Its easy to forget time has moved on, lets not forget in 1960 a house was 700 quid and the average wage was ten shillings.

[mhifoe]

So today despite the perception of high house prices the reality is that wages too have kept abreast and you would be better off today owing 100k than in 96 owing 31k.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are comparing 11k in 1996 with average earnings in 2004.

This is not a fair comparison as average earnings in 1996 were £18k.

Your example shows that affordability has remained relatively stable for someone whose salary has almost doubled in real terms.

Harldy indicative of a sustainable trend is it?

[zzg113]

What was the average wage in '96? Not £11k.

UK national average is not £25k.

You could borrow 100k interest only

What's the point of buying if it's only going to be interest-only? You may as well ****ing rent.

So today despite the perception of high house prices the reality is that

..house prices are high.

Sounds like you're the one who needs the course in economics Laurejon.

[BBB]

My first buy was a 2 bed maisonette in a West London in 1979. It was in a very nice area (was being the operative word - it is a dump now). It cost me £22600 and I had saved £4600 (having moved back home with Ma and Pa for a couple of years after a relationship break up).

So I had an 18k mortgage. At the time I was earning £7.5k - maybe a slightly better than average wage - but certainly not by much. I did not need a partner to help me with the mortgage.

I can't understand the people on here who say it was just as big a struggle then. Not in my experience. Now I can't see anyway an average FTB can get started - certainly not in the Southern half of the country. Its very depressing thinking your children are going to have to move hundreds of miles away (or abroad) when they want to settle down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no wonder you didn't struggle!!!!!! your income was 65% above average for the year in question (source Nationwide) and you bought what is tantamount to a starter home. nothing wrong with either of these things but you hardly stretched yourself did you? how do you think Joe public managed on average wage (£4,587 )

as usual twisted facts all round.

[jpjh]

Just to give you a 1999 figure

FTB in 1999 bought a Three Bedroom new build for £100k we moved from renting and were paying about the same in mortgage payments.

However we were renting in Teddington (nr Twickenham / Richmond) and had to buy way over in Grays (near errr well lets not comment)

Did sell it last year for £185k and stuck all the cash in the bank. Now enjoying renting a three bed in Hampton which we couldn't even get close to afford buying) whilst we wait for the obvious correction.

Of note we could not buy in the area we wanted to stay in / near family and friends so yes choice is difficult for FTB but in the same respect you can't have it all your way. By moving to the ars* end of nowhere for 4 years we built up a huge amount of capital which will be our sizable deposit when we decide to buy again.

We are not buying until a correction of at least 20% off the current and even then I'm going to be putting in silly offers to start with.

[zzg113]

Is that Grays, Thurrock?

[plumber]

bought in 1998 £90000 4 bed semi bungalow 4x salary todays price unknown

[jpjh]

Yes Grays, Thurrock

[Jesus]

Bought a huge (compared with today) 3 bed terrace in 99 for 39000 with no deposit. My wage them was not giving me enough for my cigarettes smoking and bills, let along for a mortgage which were £230

I was earning £12000 year working 12 hours 7 days a week

Could have hardly afford them 1 bed flat in edinburgh

I dont know where I got the inspiration from but had the vision to buy on the outskirts of Edinburgh then, as thousand of people has done in the last couple of years, and did the following:

Rented out two of the bedrooms upstairs (to same person as bedroom and livingroom).

Like living on my own downstairs but without costing me a penny in mortgage. All it was shared was the kitchen

Today it worth almost £100000

So what?, this is false money - I have nothing, as if I sell I cant buy nothing better so I wish my house and everyother of course would go back to 99 prices so I could look forward to improve quality of life without debtiting myself to the neck

[Lenny]

My mum and dad bought their first house (two up two down terrace with outside loo) in or around 1978 for £6k. No bank would give them a mortgage cos the house they wanted had an outside loo?? so they got their mortgage from the Council ?? The Council gave my parents the mortgage on the condition they got an inside toilet!!! - Has anybody heard anything like this?? I didnt know Councils could arrange mortgages?? Their mortgage was not a shared ownership!

In 1999, the same year I decided to leave the country for 5 years to work abroad, my sister and her fella aged 23 bought a lovely 2 bed semi on a nice estate on a 100% mortgage for £45,000.00. Their house is now worth £130,000.00.

Me? I am back to renting and waiting for a crash !

[Bluelady]

Missed this one, still better late than never.

Bought my first property in 1991 at the age of 38. It was a 2 bed mid terrace, which cost £70k, at the time I was earning £21k and I bought it on a 100% mortgage.

Sold it in 1995 for £75k and bought another mid terrace, three beds this time due to a job move. That one cost £80k but I was earning £28k by then.

Another job move meant moving again at the end of 1996, bought another 2 bed mid terrace, this time it cost £57k (much cheaper part of the country), salary then £30k.

My parents bought their first house in 1967 when my dad was 51 - he'd been in the RAF and living in married quarters up until then - they paid £3.5k, sold it in 1995 for £84k. A nice three bed chalet bungalow. No idea what he was earning but, as a bank clerk, I suspect not a lot. He did have his RAF pension as well, though.

[mercsl]

First home was a large 2 bedroom loft apartment in SE1 in mid 1995, price 80K including bit of garden and carspace. London was still coming out of the 90s recession. Was on 24K at the time and luckily back was willing to lend me a bit more given that I was a professional . My deposit was 5K . SE1 was not popular at the time , although all the gibes seemed to be from people who commuted into london living in the 'country' (in reality a 'dollhouse' housing estate with next doors big vans parked next to you). Given the inflation busting rise of rail fares over last 10 years(it was nearly 3k for me back then..god knows now) and its unreliability it was a good move...mortgage payments rather than giving money to britsh rail.

Get in the time machine to 2005 and its worth around 325k even in todays market.

I really like the area so got a BLT in December 2003 when prices dipped a bit for 238K (valued around 290k now) and then another in January this year for 250K.

I much prefer doing BLT that trading up. I don't really fancy giving the government nearly 20K(price of a family saloon) buying a larger place over 500k. Rather use the money as a deposit for other flats.

So what if prices go down a bit, for anyone reading their pension statements they are in for a worse shock than property, especially if they do their annuity sums of what they will get a year for every 100K..oh and does not go up with inflation unlike rents.

[zzg113]

they do their annuity sums of what they will get a year for every 100K..oh and does not go up with inflation

It is perfectly possible to get an annuity that rises in line with inflation; they are called index-linked annuities. See the PDF below:

http://www.williamburrows.com/media/wbabrochure.pdf

[mercsl]

It is perfectly possible to get an annuity that rises in line with inflation; they are called index-linked annuities. See the PDF below:

http://www.williamburrows.com/media/wbabrochure.pdf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but comes at a price ....and you get less if you wish to have the annuity paid to your other half if you die....the words 'Equitable Life' should scare every one on here...

http://money.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jh.../cmretire05.xml

[Dorkins]

My parents bought their current 4 bed detached house on a 1970s estate in an agreeable London dormitory town in 1996 for just under £120,000. An equivalent house on the same street was put on the market this year for £420,000. It's possible that the current zombie-like market further up the ladder (older people with a lot of equity buying and selling to each other at 2007 prices plus or minus 10 percent) will persist for a while, but with no FTBs underneath it will surely all have to come down sooner or later. I think the owners of the 420k house are hoping to get a fat pot of treasure for their retirement, I just hope nobody younger is stupid enough to sign up for decades of wage slavery to give it to them.

[worried1]

My parents bought their current 4 bed detached house on a 1970s estate in an agreeable London dormitory town in 1996 for just under £120,000. An equivalent house on the same street was put on the market this year for £420,000. It's possible that the current zombie-like market further up the ladder (older people with a lot of equity buying and selling to each other at 2007 prices plus or minus 10 percent) will persist for a while, but with no FTBs underneath it will surely all have to come down sooner or later. I think the owners of the 420k house are hoping to get a fat pot of treasure for their retirement, I just hope nobody younger is stupid enough to sign up for decades of wage slavery to give it to them.

I'd missed this thread first time around.

I think your example is fairly typical. The Ourproperty sold prices show that 4 bed detached houses in good SE towns like Cobham or Sevenoaks sold for as little as £175k in 1995-1996. Some of these houses would be as much as £750k now. Nominal salaries (excluding City) may have increased by 20% in that time, but house prices seem to have gone up 400'''''5

[MattW]

I don't think my parent's first time buy is a good reflection on the market because they bought their council house in 1982/3 for £13k! A nice discount after 13/14 years of being a tenant.

A similar sized house on a private estate nearby at that time would have cost around £20k.