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Television news channels always talk about "getting on the property ladder", why can't they just say "buy a house"?
Why Can't The Media Say "buy A House"
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#1
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:30 AM
.
See Below:
It looks to me like there is a massive coordinated attempt by the various VIs to engineer a spring bounce by press releases and trolling popular Internet forums such as this.
Following the reported 1.9% monthly rise from a government controlled lender and the (expected) 0.5% rate cut, this forum seems to be targeted by bulls, many joining in the last few day to talk up the market.
The general drift seems to be... 'Savings accounts are paying a pittance so get into property now and pick up a bargain'.
I wonder if the various EA and lenders associations are emailing their members, suggesting that joining this forum to talk up the market would be a good idea.
Note: The above was posted in late January 2009, the following is updated as and when required.
See Below:
It looks to me like there is a massive coordinated attempt by the various VIs to engineer a spring bounce by press releases and trolling popular Internet forums such as this.
Following the reported 1.9% monthly rise from a government controlled lender and the (expected) 0.5% rate cut, this forum seems to be targeted by bulls, many joining in the last few day to talk up the market.
The general drift seems to be... 'Savings accounts are paying a pittance so get into property now and pick up a bargain'.
I wonder if the various EA and lenders associations are emailing their members, suggesting that joining this forum to talk up the market would be a good idea.
Note: The above was posted in late January 2009, the following is updated as and when required.
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MultiQuote
#2
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:38 AM
I once worked for a US company that forbade its salesmen from telling clients to "buy their product". Instead they had to say "invest in their product".
#3
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:46 AM
LiveAndLetBuy, on 27 March 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
I once worked for a US company that forbade its salesmen from telling clients to "buy their product". Instead they had to say "invest in their product".
An investment pays for itself, buy it and the money's gone.
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
#4
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:49 AM
In fairness, most FTBs could hardly be said to be buying a house. If you borrow thousands of pounds from your parents for a deposit and then leverage up with a 4x joint salary 30 year mortgage or buy shared ownership, it is unlikely that you are going to end up actually owning a house at the end of it.
This post has been edited by Dorkins: 27 March 2012 - 10:49 AM
#5
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:53 AM
Traditional principles of property rights include:
However, anyone with a mortgage does not have control...as per the solar panels on the roof debacle.
So I would argue, you own a house, but the property belongs to you and the bank, in that the bank has restricted some uses by contract with you.
- control of the use of the property
- the right to any benefit from the property (examples: mining rights and rent)
- a right to transfer or sell the property
- a right to exclude others from the property.
However, anyone with a mortgage does not have control...as per the solar panels on the roof debacle.
So I would argue, you own a house, but the property belongs to you and the bank, in that the bank has restricted some uses by contract with you.
WARNING
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
#6
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:03 AM
Ah, so "getting on the property ladder" means starting the process towards owning a house.
That makes sense but I don't think it's what they mean.
That makes sense but I don't think it's what they mean.
.
See Below:
It looks to me like there is a massive coordinated attempt by the various VIs to engineer a spring bounce by press releases and trolling popular Internet forums such as this.
Following the reported 1.9% monthly rise from a government controlled lender and the (expected) 0.5% rate cut, this forum seems to be targeted by bulls, many joining in the last few day to talk up the market.
The general drift seems to be... 'Savings accounts are paying a pittance so get into property now and pick up a bargain'.
I wonder if the various EA and lenders associations are emailing their members, suggesting that joining this forum to talk up the market would be a good idea.
Note: The above was posted in late January 2009, the following is updated as and when required.
See Below:
It looks to me like there is a massive coordinated attempt by the various VIs to engineer a spring bounce by press releases and trolling popular Internet forums such as this.
Following the reported 1.9% monthly rise from a government controlled lender and the (expected) 0.5% rate cut, this forum seems to be targeted by bulls, many joining in the last few day to talk up the market.
The general drift seems to be... 'Savings accounts are paying a pittance so get into property now and pick up a bargain'.
I wonder if the various EA and lenders associations are emailing their members, suggesting that joining this forum to talk up the market would be a good idea.
Note: The above was posted in late January 2009, the following is updated as and when required.
#7
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:12 AM
Bruce Banner, on 27 March 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:
Ah, so "getting on the property ladder" means starting the process towards owning a house.
That makes sense but I don't think it's what they mean.
That makes sense but I don't think it's what they mean.
and ladder?....one with infinite rungs?....that would make it a perfect slide...wouldnt it?
WARNING
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
#8
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:13 AM
I've never understand how this magical "ladder" works. Unless you are a developer and buying a house doing work then selling at a profit and re investing.
Say I buy a flat in the ghettos of Basildon for £100k live there a few years and prices rise 20% I sell for £120k but the next step which when I bought would have cost £150k now costs £180k. So that's another £60k I have to find to step up the "ladder" whereas if prices had stayed the same it would have cost me £50k to step up. So the ladder actually relies on you borrowing/earning/finding more money each time.
Say I buy a flat in the ghettos of Basildon for £100k live there a few years and prices rise 20% I sell for £120k but the next step which when I bought would have cost £150k now costs £180k. So that's another £60k I have to find to step up the "ladder" whereas if prices had stayed the same it would have cost me £50k to step up. So the ladder actually relies on you borrowing/earning/finding more money each time.
Remember that buying a house is a highly leveraged investment and can result in losses that exceed your initial deposit. Buying a house may not be suitable for everyone, so please ensure that you fully understand the risks involved.
"The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets" Baron Nathan Rothschild
"The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets" Baron Nathan Rothschild
#9
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:24 AM
Pent Up, on 27 March 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:
I've never understand how this magical "ladder" works. Unless you are a developer and buying a house doing work then selling at a profit and re investing.
Say I buy a flat in the ghettos of Basildon for £100k live there a few years and prices rise 20% I sell for £120k but the next step which when I bought would have cost £150k now costs £180k. So that's another £60k I have to find to step up the "ladder" whereas if prices had stayed the same it would have cost me £50k to step up. So the ladder actually relies on you borrowing/earning/finding more money each time.
Say I buy a flat in the ghettos of Basildon for £100k live there a few years and prices rise 20% I sell for £120k but the next step which when I bought would have cost £150k now costs £180k. So that's another £60k I have to find to step up the "ladder" whereas if prices had stayed the same it would have cost me £50k to step up. So the ladder actually relies on you borrowing/earning/finding more money each time.
What you don't owe won't worry you.
Less can be more.
Less can be more.
#10
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:28 AM
Some of it is simply that "property" is shorter than "flat or house".
But the ladder thing really gets on my nerves!
But the ladder thing really gets on my nerves!
I am not reading your signatures!
#11
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:34 AM
winkie, on 27 March 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:
Obviously we all understand that but where does the concept come from?
Remember that buying a house is a highly leveraged investment and can result in losses that exceed your initial deposit. Buying a house may not be suitable for everyone, so please ensure that you fully understand the risks involved.
"The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets" Baron Nathan Rothschild
"The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets" Baron Nathan Rothschild
#12
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:41 AM
Pent Up, on 27 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:
Obviously we all understand that but where does the concept come from?
probably for the reasons you stated...you borrow 90% to buy the first one....for most people, it wont be a mansion.
inflation then made the next move up affordable, what with wage rises making the extra you will need available via a new loan, plus any repayment on the old loan you will have made...this will be rung two...and so on until you have reached the pinnacle...clearly every ladder must end in your very own Beckingham Palace.
WARNING
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it
#13
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:42 AM
Pent Up, on 27 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:
Obviously we all understand that but where does the concept come from?
Surely it originates from a time hen wage rises outstripped or at the very least kept pace with leveraged jncreases in house values so there was a very real ladder, you boughtone house with a mortgage (your very financial essence having been gone through individually with your bank manager) and worked paying down the priciple over time. You had a couple of kids and a few wage rises later decided time to move up th e rungs to a family home which you could fund by selling the current starter home and with wage rises the payments were no harder now than before etc.
As I wandered in the darkness a voice came unto me, it said "smile, be happy, things could get worse". So I smiled and was happy and behold, things did get worse.
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
"Credit is indeed vital to an economy, but it does not constitute an economy within itself. ... When businesses borrow to fund capital investments, the extra cash flows that result are used to repay the loans. When individuals borrow to spend, loans can only be repaid out of reduced future consumption."-Peter Schiff, Jan 19 2009; <a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff011909.html" My link
"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson on the Second Bank of the United States
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."-Margaret Thatcher
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad." - James Madison
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
John Kenneth Galbraith
#14
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:45 AM
zebbedee, on 27 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:
Surely it originates from a time hen wage rises outstripped or at the very least kept pace with leveraged jncreases in house values so there was a very real ladder, you boughtone house with a mortgage (your very financial essence having been gone through individually with your bank manager) and worked paying down the priciple over time. You had a couple of kids and a few wage rises later decided time to move up th e rungs to a family home which you could fund by selling the current starter home and with wage rises the payments were no harder now than before etc.
This. Plus in the old days the rental market consisted mostly of dodgy bedsits or places which cost more than the equivalent (repayment) mortgage, so there was a real wealth effect from being on the ladder even though this was offset buy the rungs getting further apart.
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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:45 AM
Pent Up, on 27 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:
Obviously we all understand that but where does the concept come from?
My guess is that it comes from people who bought in the 1960s/70s who were able to quickly wipe out mortgage debt thanks to wage inflation. The unexpectedly easy acquisition of equity meant they could upgrade to better properties every few years with relative ease. Of course this equity came at a price, which was the real terms destruction of other people's savings.