Altrincham/hale/halebarns

[Venger]

Can you enable your private messaging for a day Nomadd please. I've got some info about a house you listed up some time ago, and don't want any casual reader or especially visiting guest EA reader to see it, because it involves some personal info about the eventual buyer.

It's only basic info relevant to you anyway, so I'm not denying any regular a juicy HPC story.

[Nomadd]

Can you enable your private messaging for a day Nomadd please. I've got some info about a house you listed up some time ago, and don't want any casual reader or especially visiting guest EA reader to see it, because it involves some personal info about the eventual buyer.

It's only basic info relevant to you anyway, so I'm not denying any regular a juicy HPC story.

Think I've ticked the right option. Give it a try now.

Cheers.

[Venger]

Now that is perfect in terms of size for me. And there's an option to extend in the future if you needed to. But the garden is far too small, and the price ridiculous (IMHO) for what it is. I believe the next 2-3 years will sort out the pricing aspect, so I'm just kicking around a few "what if's" in order to stimulate debate.

It was just a suggestion with your budget so you could have a balance with the best of both worlds, given you've worked very hard in a job which requires skills and knowledge. With similar principles I won't be over-stretching to buy, still enjoy some money for actual living and then towards building a pension, rather than having too much mortgage debt to service. I'll have a contingency fund when I buy whatever happens, else I would risk becoming one a struggling home-owners who I have little sympathy for.

Yet with these houses as examples, at the prices they're currently seeking, maybe you should hold out for value to emerge, or if some selective opportunities at the higher end. I realise some people don't think that will happen in Hale and possibly they are correct. It's held up reasonably well so far. That said I understand you have no interest in the houses you've linked to at anything like their current asking prices anyway.

1. Cheap uPVC '1 kick' doors front and back. Exposed beams by design or created as some sort of effect? I've guessing it's a 1950s build house. I doubt at the time of planning and building they put in a very small window (left of the upper bay) in those homes for energy efficiency reasons.

I see an example on Streetview of extended homes, and wonder what you would expect to pay today for such a two-storey extension to be built today? £40K-£60K? It's a detached house (I recall you having music or drums problems with a neighbour once) but not one of any particular charm. Tiny garden.

Streetview shows they've got a autosleeper of some sort. I know of a couple trying to sell their home at a very high price, who also have got an expensive RV. They've also not spent any money on home improvements over the years but want a very high price, so it's sat on unsold on the market for 2 years now even after being reduced by £50K. It's like they want buyer to pay for the good life spending they've had with holidays and spending on themselves, to help them downsize somewhere nice, whilst also giving them money to further assist their own two children they helped onto the ladder (in negative equity and now struggling with employment and for money.)

2. Corner plot and the issues which can come with them, including less security for access to the rear of the house. Lot of larger glazed windows in room at the back with some piddly radiators to warm the room in Winter. A load of vinyl flooring with awkward kitchen space.

I think a lot of the money they're seeking for both homes it is on the Hale premium. It's fine not to keep up with latest trends or not renew something which still has life in it, but very little money looks to have been spent on either for decades, yet the asking prices are so high for very average homes. Nothing special about either. I just wonder who is buying such houses from downsizers at these sort of asking prices. I know such homes occasionally sell to a small pool of buyers who've had enough of waiting and are prepared to spend more to update, but I await more of them to come onto the market to put some downward pressure on prices.

[manchester50]

Have to admit that this is really annoying me.

We keep seeing houses that have been valued hugely about their last sold prices (within the last 6 years), which would be suitable for us, but I'm not going to pay for their holidays for life purely for the sake of it.

Examples that have come on RM in the last few weeks (which we would buy at the right price):

- on at 675. Sold 14 months ago at 560. Minor decor (poss new kitchen and/or bathroom)

- on at 470. Sold in 2006 for 330. Doesn't look like they've done much beyond usual decorating

- on at 695. Sold in 2007 for 580. Don't know what has been done, but not gutted/extended.

They won't sell, just sit there. Agents aren't helping matters, vendors aren't being realistic. I wouldnt care except some of these houses would suit us now, and I'm willing to overpay (vs my forecast value for them in say 3 years time), but I'm not willing for someone utterly to take the p**s

[manchester50]

I know some do, and this dilutes the message.

We ourselves have a decent pot of deposit and have no desire to rent for much longer, so could end up another one of those 'unhelpful' statistics. As I said in another thread I've loads of friends and relatives who've bought in the last 18 months - around 8-10, although in areas that possibly haven't held up as well. I'm concluding that the only way to buy at the moment is to be flexible on house and fling a -20 to -15% offer at each in turn, then do another lap a 1% or 2% higher. In the hope there's someone who bites/is desperate.

[manchester50]

If it's acceptable to you/your family to rent for another two years then I would do. I can't see any way in which that is going to be a poor financial decision.

[howarden]

Went to see a house just off Oldfield Rd, Altrincham, yesterday and liked it.

Checked the land reg and they bought it for 194,300 in Sep 2010. Their bottom line? 225k. Why? i asked, Seems that the EA has told them that's what it's worth.

They are making it up as they go a long. When I asked why it had increased by 26k in two years, whilst the figures are showing falls they just coldly say 'that's we valued it at'

I'm not playing this game anymore.

I offered them 194,300 just to make a point, which was promptly declined.

Unless they get a cash buyer, it doesn't really matter what the buyer offers, it will need to be underwritten and agreed with a valuer and I can't think there is any significant chance a surveyor would value it anywhere above the 2010 price paid. One of the interesting bits of the recent LSL Property Services trading update (owner of Reeds Rains and Your Move) was quite how much money they had put aside to cover negligent valuation surveys for their surveyor businesses.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

This is the house I was referring to: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-21597048.html

We didn't view in the end so no chance of being outed by anyone. Under offer in a week, will watch for the eventual price. 2 Recent sales at about 285 on the road. So this one could be FTBs as a doer upper or I think there's a spread in there for a flipper. Someone who thinks they can get away with a 10 grand re-furb. To much homes under the hammer.

Sold or 242 in march http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/19-finchley-road/hale/altrincham/wa15-9re/25444638

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=23750643&sale=46894304&country=england

Now looks to be back on the market for 350 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23750643.html

[Venger]

Sold or 242 in march http://www.zoopla.co...15-9re/25444638

http://www.rightmove...country=england

Now looks to be back on the market for 350 http://www.rightmove...y-23750643.html

They've altered the entrance to get rid of those horrible porch doors, but I don't like the colour of door they've chosen. Added a loft conversion. Kitchen, the layout which seems quite appealing. They can't magic up car parking though at their £350 asking.

(I want one of those kitchens where the units, when pushed, smoothly roll back and do the final closing themselves. Sort of a cushioned autoshut takes over for the last part. And which are flat faced without decorative grooves and dips so they're easy to keep clean, without grease and dirt getting trapped into decorate bevels ect.) Watersons have done a good job with the listing pics again.

£242K and asking Offers in region of £350K. So £108K markup at most, minus costs. I'd guess costs are somewhere between £25K and £40K? I wonder if these flippers, who managed so far to keep on flipping like this, pay tax. Capital gains ect. Probably they pay it out as income for their redevelopment between two or three people, but if so, at least it can still be taxed that way?

All the QE and quest for 'recovery' has led to mad gambling speculation hasn't it, pushing up prices which were already painfully expensive to new heights 'Investors' and developers buying at such prices, looking for higher returns than in the bank. Hoping to sell on to someone desperate, worried about their savings in the bank, or simply giving in, for ever more of a crippling higher price. And the occasional buyer with more money than sense, unconcerned with value. At the same time inflicting negative consequences on sounder money and would-be buyers.

One thing which lifts me a little is the number of new instructions a friend of mine is seeing from landlords around the North West and also outside it. Landlords seeking possession from tenants who are in financial difficulty and behind or not paying their rent. There is a 6-8 week wait for the court-bailiffs to attend to regain possession in many areas of the UK apparently. Unlike others who act for landlords, my friend knows how and when to apply in advance, before possession is obtained, to cut that waiting time down so better coincides to be ready when possession is obtained. Doing a job to the best of their abilities, to help their landlord clients, and that's fine with me, as they get repeat instructions at a slight premium and helps keep them in profit. There is an option to use private bailiffs apparently, but more expensive and some drawbacks.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Venger

[R K]

Change of tack by Bridgfords??

They've pulled the prices across the board on a bunch of their listings over the wkend, changed them to 'POA' and added a 'Make me an offer!!!' plea.......

Sounds like they've gone wibble

http://www.rightmove..._includeSSTC=on

Edited August 6, 2012 by Banana Monarchy

[Venger]

Change of tack by Bridgfords??

They've pulled the prices across the board on a bunch of their listings over the wkend, changed them to 'POA' and added a 'Make me an offer!!!' plea.......

Interesting. I recall reading something recently about EAs doing a 'Make me an offer' promotion.

Yes; here it is. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=181006

[Nomadd]

Interesting. I recall reading something recently about EAs doing a 'Make me an offer' promotion.

Yes; here it is. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=181006

Well, they start their listings with "MAKE ME AN OFFER !" and then follow it up with "!!!! NO CHAIN !!!!" and finally resort to "MAKE ME AN OFFER NO CHAIN !!!"

All sounding a bit desperate, isn't it. Still, all those exclamation marks should help them sell.

The beginning of the end? For the larger stuff, no, as the beginning of the end for that was at least 2 years ago. For mid-tier and lower stuff, who knows. My guess would be yes.

Interesting times are upon us.

[Venger]

All sounding a bit desperate, isn't it. Still, all those exclamation marks should help them sell.

I agree lol. It comes across as a bit tacky and a slightly desperate. That's a good thing from our point of view, if it helps engender confidence draining perceptions in the wider market, or actually help better convey the difficulties in the market for sellers.

There's no easy way of doing a Make Me An Offer campaign without getting to the point, but just dropping the exclamation marks would help make it less tacky.

Looking at Bridgfords' own website, a couple of NW houses had this.

Make me an offer This property is part of our 'make me an offer' campaign so why not make us an offer?

The EA will have had to discuss this with sellers they think might go for it. Explaining some of the advantages (perhaps getting offers). Although some sellers might be all too eager to take this approach.

I've not checked on a Rightmove search yet but will assume these 'Make Me An Offer' listings are still wedged between houses which have asking prices, giving a hint of the top end of what the seller is seeking to achieve.

[R K]

I agree lol. It comes across as a bit tacky and a slightly desperate. That's a good thing from our point of view, if it helps engender confidence draining perceptions in the wider market, or actually help better convey the difficulties in the market for sellers.

There's no easy way of doing a Make Me An Offer campaign without getting to the point, but just dropping the exclamation marks would help make it less tacky.

Looking at Bridgfords' own website, a couple of NW houses had this.

The EA will have had to discuss this with sellers they think might go for it. Explaining some of the advantages (perhaps getting offers). Although some sellers might be all too eager to take this approach.

I've not checked on a Rightmove search yet but will assume these 'Make Me An Offer' listings are still wedged between houses which have asking prices, giving a hint of the top end of what the seller is seeking to achieve.

Well spotted.

I noticed it on Bridgfords. Seems to be specific to them though. The POA must still have a price marker because they remain in the same position in the list as when they were priced.

It all seems desperate and delusional, since all houses are offerable - indeed that's part of the buy/sell process. Bizarre.

[Nomadd]

The EA will have had to discuss this with sellers they think might go for it. Explaining some of the advantages (perhaps getting offers). Although some sellers might be all too eager to take this approach.

True, most sellers aren't happy with this approach - but they don't have much choice these days. The family members of mine who recently sold "stuck it out" for 6-9 months at their initial price before reality started to dawn on them; it still took another cut or two beyond that before market value was achieved.

The "peak" selling season for the housing market has about 4 weeks left to go now, so EAs are desperate to close deals before that point arises - hence all these daft listings with added: !!!!!!! I think we'll need to wait until mid-Sept for a clearer picture to emerge of where the housing market is heading. Having said that, I can't see all this overpriced rubbish suddenly flying off the shelves in the next 4 weeks. The "other" family member I mentioned - who is looking to move back to Didsbury - had both the interested parties in their place withdraw last week. Sentiment is changing, IMHO.

[monks]

Change of tack by Bridgfords??

They've pulled the prices across the board on a bunch of their listings over the wkend, changed them to 'POA' and added a 'Make me an offer!!!' plea.......

Sounds like they've gone wibble

http://www.rightmove..._includeSSTC=on

Still in dreamland about the Bancroft Road houses... these monstrosities have been on the market for years now. I think at one stage ALL of them were up for sale.

Bancroft 1

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Talking of semis of another thread, there's a few about at the moment

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=POSTCODE%5E1271985&insId=1&minPrice=240000&maxPrice=290000&minBedrooms=3&displayPropertyType=houses&oldDisplayPropertyType=houses&secondaryDisplayPropertyType=semidetachedhouses&radius=0.5

Thinking of the period semis not that new build I previously posted about.

One thing I have no idea about is the planning/building options for this type. Plenty of similar houses with a mix of extensions in this area. Anyone got any experience of this type of development. Typically these houses have tiny 3rd bedrooms. What are chances of extending across the drive? How close to neighbours boundary can you get? Take a look round the Sandileigh ave/dr and there's plent of big ugly extensions.

Is it easy to build on the side of the house?

[Democorruptcy]

Well spotted.

I noticed it on Bridgfords. Seems to be specific to them though. The POA must still have a price marker because they remain in the same position in the list as when they were priced.

It all seems desperate and delusional, since all houses are offerable - indeed that's part of the buy/sell process. Bizarre.

Do they do the 'Make me an Offer' promotions for avid followers of Location Location Location? So buyers realise that if they offer as little as £595k on a £600k house they might be taken seriously?

[Venger]

Is it easy to build on the side of the house?

Some good info at this interactive website, which may help answer some of your questions, including a part-answer re neighbours boundary.

And other info bits, such as extension(s) and other structures (including sheds) not exceeding 50% of land around the original house.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/extensions/miniguide

[Venger]

Sold or 242 in march http://www.zoopla.co...15-9re/25444638

http://www.rightmove...country=england

Now looks to be back on the market for 350 http://www.rightmove...y-23750643.html

Any more thoughts on this house? I'm now thinking the profit margin they're seeking on this is quite thin. Or more at risk of being deeply eaten into if/when the market turns, if it hasn't begun to already.

[Nomadd]

Any more thoughts on this house? I'm now thinking the profit margin they're seeking on this is quite thin. Or more at risk of being deeply eaten into if/when the market turns, if it hasn't begun to already.

Well, seems like they purchased at under the £250k threshold and are still looking (asking) for a £107k mark-up. So even if you knocked off £5k in initial fees, that's still in excess of £100k profit to play with.

Not sure how much that "refurb" would cost? Most of it seems to be a lick of paint. I guess the kitchen looks OK, but that and the bathroom wouldn't have cost more than £20k (tops) at a guess? So even including some of the minor building work they did, it still has the potential to be fairly profitable if they can find some mug to stump up that kind of asking price (or close too it.)

The lack of OSP, the narrow (claustrophobically so) hallway, narrow garden, and general location would be enough to put me off - and that's before you consider the insane pricing. And a "tight" terrace like that requires very good neighbours on both sides (I know, I've been there) which you seldom get - especially as these places attract younger couples who waste no time in knocking out noisy young children.

One to watch, I guess, just to get a sense of whether any mugs still remain - and can get finance - in the current market.

EDIT: I'll add my "guess" that if a professional builder who knew what he was doing did this job, then anything over £285k is going to be profit.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Nomadd

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

EDIT: I'll add my "guess" that if a professional builder who knew what he was doing did this job, then anything over £285k is going to be profit.

Watersons sold 2 ok but not pristine houses on that road last year for around £285k, check out exact sold prices.

http://www.watersons.net/data/300027406_1.pdf

http://www.watersons.net/data/300030664_1.pdf

Original listing for this doer upper shows it has a pre existing ground floor "extension"

http://www.watersons.net/data/300033090_1.pdf

So not sure much building work was required in the doing up.

Therefore the market has already given me a very good idea on the value of this house and I think the owner would be veyr lucky to see anything north of £300k. To be honest at £245k I didn't see any room to make a decent profit.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Edited August 12, 2012 by SeeYouNextTuesday

[Venger]

One to watch, I guess, just to get a sense of whether any mugs still remain - and can get finance - in the current market.

EDIT: I'll add my "guess" that if a professional builder who knew what he was doing did this job, then anything over £285k is going to be profit.

Yes, that's my suspicion too; a professional builder. Keeping costs down such as a loft-extension, with their own workmanship.

The longer they don't sell, that margin is probably reduced in borrowing costs. If it's their own capital, well the margin could tilt with more homes coming to market. £100K 'profit-margin' to work with might not be so much when you weigh in what they could charge for a loft conversion and other stuff in the market, without capital risk. If they can't get their asking price, and have to lower it, than you wonder if £50K would make it worthwhile for all the effort and risk.

I've got a suspicion we're going to see an uptick in supply from here, and into the future. There's a lot of gathering factors which can't be held at bay with low interest rates, and even QE could be negatively feeding back on itself with consequences for house prices. Mostly I'm expecting more sellers sellers with lots of equity in their homes, wanting to tap some of it, more inclined to accept lower prices to achieve it, with concern prices could/will fall further if they don't look to act.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Some good info at this interactive website, which may help answer some of your questions, including a part-answer re neighbours boundary.

And other info bits, such as extension(s) and other structures (including sheds) not exceeding 50% of land around the original house.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/extensions/miniguide

Thanks for that, I'll take a good look when I'm home.

Was hooning round the med today, must have caught a hundred fish, dined well. Greece vs UK, who's to say the Bris aren't more ******ed, third of a million for a mouldy pile of clay.

[Venger]

Watersons sold 2 ok but not pristine houses on that road last year for around £285k, check out exact sold prices.

http://www.watersons...300027406_1.pdf

http://www.watersons...300030664_1.pdf

Original listing for this doer upper shows it has a pre existing ground floor "extension"

http://www.watersons...300033090_1.pdf

So not sure much building work was required in the doing up.

Therefore the market has already given me a very good idea on the value of this house and I think the owner would be veyr lucky to see anything north of £300k. To be honest at £245k I didn't see any room to make a decent profit.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Interesting. I've taken the liberty of adjusting one of your links above, for the do-er upper. I think that's what you intended, but you're probably overly relaxed from a very nice day on your holiday. Nothing like a good holiday to help gain some perspective. Hope you both come back better for it, against what has been a few miserable years for the housing market. Let's hope those hints of 'something happening' in the market begin to gather some more momentum.

The ground floor extension was an advantage to whoever bought it to do-up at £242,500 . Although one of the other houses you linked PDF to, selling in 2011, also had a kitchen extension. I'm not sure what to think, other than suspect their window of opportunity to flip for such profit is closing.

The loft extension is good, but what would it cost for that with a highly reputable builder? £25,000 to £30,000 + a little bit of hassle of having builders and trades in for 6-8 weeks. (I know a man who regrets going with a cheaper builder for their loft extension with hardly any credentials for his loft extension. The builder didn't do the job in one concentrated go but spread it out over multiple visits over 6 months, and now the owner also has build quality issues. He would have been much better off just going for the builder with the high reputation and many happy customers, paying the extra £5K-£7K.)

Edited August 12, 2012 by Venger