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French Property


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HOLA441

Yes very cheeky by meilleursagents.com, the real government dataset is online here: https://app.dvf.etalab.gouv.fr/

It should be noted that the dataset is *net vendeur* so the actual sale price will be 5-6% more expensive as the buyer paid agency fees. I know this as I checked it against some of my own sales.

I would say that people buying abroad, in my experience, are more fiscally conservative in their purchase. If my client has a budget of €500k then they generally have about that in cash. They then may borrow €300k as interest rates are so low freeing up that for other investments. If my client is buying a holiday home then I prefer to come in below budget, as it should be something to relax and enjoy rather than stress about. If it is an investment then you need to leave a margin in case of an unpredictable mini-crisis affecting the market. You don't want to stretch as much as a primary residence, where you do as it also maximises your capital gains over time.

Houses or apartments? I would say €1m apartments fly off the shelf here, if they are top floor with a terrace or a > 120m² bourgeois. I would say a lot of the buyers are Parisiens, followed by foreigners. In terms of houses, plenty of locals have no problem affording €1m plus. However they are quite snobbish as to area. So between Mont Boron and Villefranche is popular, as is Gairaut to the north of Nice.

As to your last question, I would say that it's shifted the opposite way, with both locals and foreigners cashing in on AirBnb at the moment. This is mainly the stretch between the Port and the Carre d'Or.  I have had some younger local clients prefer to live somewhere smaller and buy an investment property in the Old Town rather than live somewhere a little more luxurious. This is anecdotal and may not reflect the market as a whole.

Phillip.

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HOLA442

Basically you are telling me that everything is selling very well (in Nice). Exactly not what I wanted to hear LOL

AirBnb is a great way of experiencing any future acquisition. If it were not that I do plan to eventually live in Nice, then just using AirBnb for one's holidays is the way to go. The other way round I do not consider AirBnb as a profitable enough way to get some (extra) cash out of a property as a landlord. Not to mention the headaches. I predict that hype to disappear soon.

Any idea how the market in Cannes is doing?

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HOLA443

It's not good for us in Nice either, with hundreds of agencies chasing a handful of properties. It's good if you want to sell though! My sellers are very happy with the prices they are getting.

AirBnb is a good way to experience an area, as you only need a couple of days to really get a feel for it. The quarters of Nice are quite small and don't need much time to get to grips with. Though I would have to disagree with AirBnb not being profitable enough. It is highly lucrative, hence the dearth of properties in the prime areas. A property should make around 8-10% gross yield with revenues, but if you don't want any headaches then there are property management companies that do all the AirBnb for you in exchange for about 25-30% of your revenue. A "hands off" net yield should be around 4-5% after management charges, taxes, property charges, etc. If you don't mind using your own apartment off-peak then you can use it frequently November-February without really touching your bottom line.

The government is trying to clamp down. For instance in Nice, from 2019 you can only have one AirBnb without having to go into a "compensation scheme". Before last year it was three and really only Paris was implementing it. The compensation scheme is that for every extra holiday rental apartment, you have to convert an office to an apartment of identical size. However the Nice municipality are not enforcing any of the rules and last time I checked less than 1/3 of holiday apartments had registered with the Town Hall as legally required. The amount of extra tourists being pulled into Nice by the cheaper available accommodation outweighs the small amount of tax dodging by AirBnb hosts. Governments are always generous in a bull market but if it turns expect that blind eye to suddenly open.

I wouldn't say anything is going to happen soon. Nice is undergoing mass expansion. They just closed down all the bus lanes in the city centre and are turning them into tree lined cycle lanes. It's happening outside my window so I can tell you they are moving *fast*.

Sorry, I don't really know about Cannes.

Phillip.

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  • 2 months later...
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HOLA444
On 07/12/2019 at 00:50, Phillip in Nice said:

AirBnb is a good way to experience an area, as you only need a couple of days to really get a feel for it. The quarters of Nice are quite small and don't need much time to get to grips with. 

Make it a great way! The last 8 days I spent 4 nights in Mont Baron and 4 nights in Beausoleil. 

Mont Baron was never really on top of my list, but I can now confidently confirm that it is not a place where I would like to live. There are only two roads (Moyenne and Basse Corniche) leading to it from the city that both kind of close to each other bottleneck near Le Port. Traffic jams can be an unacceptable nightmare. And worst of all, even I cannot think of a solution to this problem, so for sure nothing will be done about it in the foreseeable future. 

Another funny problem:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10156103791855579
As soon as the A8 has been connected directly (without any traffic lights) to the Voie Mathis, I think property easy accessible via the Voie Mathis will sky rocket. How long will this take?

Beausoleil is a good place to live having Monaco nearby, but I like Nice better (discussed before) and in general Beausoleil is 25% more expensive than La Madeleine.

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HOLA445

I keep on watching the Nice market. Hardly anything interesting pops up. Good news: I am not in a hurry!

The other day I did see one semi interesting object on my wanted Route de Bellet. Within a week it was gone. I then did WhatsApp the agent asking him for how much it was sold. He did not reply, so I asked him again and still no reply. Is this typical behaviour of these guys?

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HOLA446
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HOLA448
8 hours ago, felix said:

I am reading that in Holland property prices keep going up and that in the South of Italy property is being sold for 1 Euro.

Is France somewhere in the middle?

We were watching the Bordeaux area. Unfortunately it has rocketed in the last few years. Europe overall is seeing large rises in property prices. 

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  • 11 months later...
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HOLA449
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HOLA4410
13 hours ago, felix said:

What impact could Marine Le Pen have on property prices?

She won't win (but then I thought Trump wouldn't win).

But even if she did, she's not planning on taking France out of the EU. If anything, she may attract a few more wealthier libertarian types to move to France.

So I don't think her winning will have any long term impact on house prices in France.

Btw, France was previously our destination of choice for when we finish up in the UK. But sadly all the decent areas have suffered the same fate as the UK now and property prices have risen massively over the last five years. It is no longer a very cheap option to escape the UK. Much like the rest of the world. It seems these days you have to turn to the third world if you want cheap housing.

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HOLA4411
On 12/04/2022 at 17:25, dugsbody said:

But sadly all the decent areas have suffered the same fate as the UK now 

Meaning that France is not dealing with an overall price increase, but certain areas have gone up significantly more than others?

I am a real city person and it seems I am not the only one, so I did see cities go up more than country sides. 
However with Covid (and working at home) it seemed as if the country side got a bit more attention, but I guess this may have been very short lived. 

Which areas/cities in France are you interested in? 
And if it will not be France, where would you be interested in moving to otherwise?

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HOLA4412
29 minutes ago, felix said:

Meaning that France is not dealing with an overall price increase, but certain areas have gone up significantly more than others?

I am a real city person and it seems I am not the only one, so I did see cities go up more than country sides. 
However with Covid (and working at home) it seemed as if the country side got a bit more attention, but I guess this may have been very short lived. 

Which areas/cities in France are you interested in? 
And if it will not be France, where would you be interested in moving to otherwise?

South East, Alpes-Maritimes (friends, family, wife's side). Or South West, just because it is less crowded and better value for money. Bordeaux was interesting, but now very pricey. Same for much of the desirable areas, city or not.

Other possibilities were Germany, Switzerland or Portugal. All offering different positives. Portugal is top of our list now, but for the plan of moving is getting more remote for a few reasons.

1. Schooling. We wanted to wait for an appropriate time to relocate the children. No time is very appropriate but with a recent move we've made, the schooling in our new area in the UK is fantastic.

2. Property prices in Europe have risen a huge amount and we no longer get the geo-arbitrage we had previously by selling up here and buying in mainland Europe. Portugal has gone nuts. This is quite sad.

3. Luckily we found an area in the UK that we now love, so the desire to move abroad has decreased.

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HOLA4413
On 12/04/2022 at 17:25, dugsbody said:

for when we finish up in the UK. 

This to me sounded, as if you would at least no longer have children going to school.

I hear very mixed stories about Portugal. The fact that prices have indeed gone up and that I do not speak the language, looks to be enough to not put any attention on it. Spain will have similar issues.

Regarding the French areas that you mention. By not even referring to the Côte d'Azur, but the Alpes-Maritimes in specific, probably means that you also totally exclude the Provence. I can even be more specific: I prefer Nice above anything else. The good news is that Nice itself is still cheaper than all the villages around it. The bad news is that more and more start to pick up on the idea that living in Nice has so much more to offer than a sleepy village like Cannes. And there is a lot for sale in Cannes! 

Achat immobilier Cannes (06400) - Bien’ici (bienici.com)

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  • 11 months later...
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HOLA4414
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HOLA4415

A new law came in that means as of this year that you now need approval of holiday rentals in the building rules. Prior to this, you could do holiday rentals if the building rules did not explicitly forbid it. A lot of buildings are voting on it this year but a number of sellers would rather not play the lottery and are selling off quickly in case it does not get approved.

Phillip.

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HOLA4416
On 24/03/2023 at 14:07, Phillip in Nice said:

A new law came in that means as of this year that you now need approval of holiday rentals in the building rules. Prior to this, you could do holiday rentals if the building rules did not explicitly forbid it. A lot of buildings are voting on it this year but a number of sellers would rather not play the lottery and are selling off quickly in case it does not get approved.

Phillip.

A very interesting law and a good one in my opinion, as the majority should simply have a say in what can and cannot be done on a domaine. Having said that, it does not necessarily mean that it makes property less valuable, as some owners will in fact be looking for (quiet) places, where holiday rentals are not allowed. It could literally lead to ownership swaps. Anyhow the French IRS should be the real winner.

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HOLA4417

In a way they did have a say by not previously voting to ban Airbnb in the building rules. They have always had this option. Whether this law is good or bad, it has been very badly executed. Nearly nobody knows about it and what they have done is made thousands of people start to act illegally often without even realising it.

What they should have done is made it compulsory for ever AG to vote on holiday rentals within the next 3 years. The Town Hall will then act on the result of each vote. This would give a grace period for which people can adjust accordingly. For instance if they know AirBnb is not popular in their building then they can either sell or write off the rental in advance. Now we get ridiculous instances where I know somebody with everybody in the building 100% in favour or AirBnb, but they all cannot rent this year as their next AG meeting is not until November.

Phillip.

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HOLA4418

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