interestrateripoff Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design If the battery is ever totally discharged, the owner is left with what Tesla describes as a “brick”: a completely immobile vehicle that cannot be started or even pushed down the street. The only known remedy is for the owner to pay Tesla approximately $40,000 to replace the entire battery. Unlike practically every other modern car problem, neither Tesla’s warranty nor typical car insurance policies provide any protection from this major financial loss... How To Brick An Electric Car A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a “brick”. The parasitic load from the car’s always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery’s charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn’t receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it’s not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means. Genius. Still at least it's not costly to fix!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Set light to it, claim on the insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I thought it was about 7000 laptop type batteries that ran it? They tried to take Top Gear / Jeremy Clarkson to court over his slating of the Tesla.. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/24/tesla-libel-suit-against-top-gear-fails-again/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfar Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Sorry but this is a design flaw that the manufacturer knows about. I think they will be the ones footing the bill if any owners suffer this. Take into account how much the thing costs, the buyers will have a few pounds to spend on a solicitor especially if it is going to save thousands of pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepista Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Shouldn't it start sounding a desperate alarm about a day or so before the end? After all £40k is about to be stolen ... That would drain the battery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 http://theunderstate...astating-design Genius. Still at least it's not costly to fix!!! Why post this? D'ya think petrol cars are maintenance free or something? Sounds like desperate clutching at straws from an oil lobbyist who knows his oil money days are numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 At least it's helping to save the planet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmarks Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Why post this? D'ya think petrol cars are maintenance free or something? Sounds like desperate clutching at straws from an oil lobbyist who knows his oil money days are numbered. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Why isn't there a main switch/relay that just cuts off the whole car? It's not like there's an engine ECU to worry about. I'd rather reset the clock and lose a few radio presets than 40k of battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadget Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Why post this? D'ya think petrol cars are maintenance free or something? Sounds like desperate clutching at straws from an oil lobbyist who knows his oil money days are numbered. Quite. How many people have blown a sports car ICE before by doing something stupid? This driver did something Tesla specifically warned against. Though it does look like a design flaw Tesla should have engineered out. Nissan say they did on a car a fraction of the price of a Tesla: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/02/23/tesla-bricking-update-can-other-electric-vehicle-suffer-the-sam/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Or just have a separate battery for the "ongoing drain" stuff? Or have it power itself off absolutely when it gets near danger levels? I'm amazed they haven't sorted this better at the design stage. Like they do on boats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveAndLetBuy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Why post this? D'ya think petrol cars are maintenance free or something? Sounds like desperate clutching at straws from an oil lobbyist who knows his oil money days are numbered. Which petrol cars leave you with a 40k maintenance bill if you run out of juice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Which petrol cars leave you with a 40k maintenance bill if you run out of juice? Firstly, the Tesla Roadster is a 100K high performance car to begin with. So the amount of money is relative to that. The battery holds its charge for months when not being used, and alerts the owner and Tesla when charge gets low. Clever car! Tesla stated the issue in their warranty, in the same way an ICE manufacturer insists on regular services, oil changes etc, etc, etc,... This problem is not an issue with the high volume cars like the Nissan Leaf (see below) Tesla avoids this problem in virtually all instances with numerous counter-measures. Tesla batteries can remain unplugged for weeks (even months), without reaching zero state of charge. Owners of Roadster 2.0 and all subsequent Tesla products can request that their vehicle alert Tesla if battery state of charge falls to a low level. All Tesla vehicles emit various visual and audible warnings if the battery pack falls below 5 percent state of charge. Source: http://www.greencarr..._medium=twitter The Nissan LEAF battery pack will never discharge completely, thanks to an advanced battery management system designed to protect the battery from damage. One element of the battery management system is a failsafe wall that stops the battery from reaching zero state-of-charge, even after a period of unplugged storage. Globally, there are more than 22,000 LEAFs on the road that have driven more than 30 million miles, without any incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpiricalBear Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I bought a new Saab convertible in 2000 and told myself the next car I would buy new would be electric. I still have the Saab. When there is an electric car with LiPo (Lithium Polymer) batteries, or something with the same charge capacity, that also has a backup petrol generator I'll lay out my money, but not yet. I'd like 250-350 miles on a charge with the backup generator to rescue me if I travel to the Outer Hebrides and run out of charging points. It will come, all electric cars people buy today will have computer like depreciation over the next 5 years, by 2017-20 the technology will be 'done', but its not there yet except for city dwellers with charging points in every borough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgefunded Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Electric cars are at least 10 years away from becoming viable IMHO. They need to be: 1 - Recharged in minutes, not hours 2 - Six grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You can't stop any in battery self-discharge but you sure can prevent the main battery being flatten by any small loads from anciallry electronics like car security/lock detection mechanisms - simply isolate the main battery when car is switched off and power those subsystems off a small secondary battery - kill that not the main battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadget Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I bought a new Saab convertible in 2000 and told myself the next car I would buy new would be electric. I still have the Saab. When there is an electric car with LiPo (Lithium Polymer) batteries, or something with the same charge capacity, that also has a backup petrol generator I'll lay out my money, but not yet. I'd like 250-350 miles on a charge with the backup generator to rescue me if I travel to the Outer Hebrides and run out of charging points. It will come, all electric cars people buy today will have computer like depreciation over the next 5 years, by 2017-20 the technology will be 'done', but its not there yet except for city dwellers with charging points in every borough. You're basically saying you'll never buy an electric car. An electric car with 250 mile range doesn't need a range extender. An electric car with a range extender doesn't need a 250 mile range. It's like asking for a car that's left hand drive and also right hand drive (for driving on the continent). It's possible to make but It'll never be built. So what are going to buy? A Tesla Model S ( http://www.teslamotors.com/models) Or a Chevy Volt / Vauxhall Ampera? (http://www.vauxhall-ampera.co.uk/ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 All lithium batteries have this problem if the battery falls below the minimum voltage. It is possible to revive them using a charging pattern for a Ni Cd/Ni Mh type battery until this reach a voltage that a lithium charging pattern will charge from. Although the risk is that the batteries will spontaneously combust Modern R/C cars have being using lithium batteries for the last 4 years or so. Speed controllers used in them have been designed in such a way that when the battery is getting towards the minimum voltage all power is cut. Tesla should have this built in, no excuse really and an obvious design oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 LiPo batteries become useless over time anyhow, so the big question for me is not how a £40K battery can be damaged by user error (it IS a design fault IMO) but what happens a few years down the line when the battery has started to show weak cells? Even allowing a 10 year life for the battery (I think I'm being kind), that's still £4K per year to replace. Buckers Exactly, R/C lipo batteries are generally guaranteed for a 1000 cycles or so, some fail long before that, some can be cycled more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Shouldn't it start sounding a desperate alarm about a day or so before the end? After all £40k is about to be stolen ... It does sound an alarm - weeks before IIRC, when it gets down to the few days left stage it actually contacts Tesla The story is just nonsense from Clarkson-loving goons with no mind of their own. A plugged-in Tesla is not only charging its battery, it is also keeping key systems within the car functioning properly. Tesla owners around the world keep their cars charged on a daily basis without any issues at all. If ever the battery in your Tesla runs low, the car is designed to let you know with repeated visual and audible warnings. If you continue to ignore the warnings, they will persist and increase. The vehicle also protects the battery itself by communicating with other systems in the car to conserve energy when the state of charge gets too low. Starting with Roadster 2.0, owners can also elect for their car to contact Tesla headquarters once the state of charge falls below a specified level, and we can then contact the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 My OH got a new laptop and decided he'd power it by mains as he is always near a socket. Battery sat on the side for 6 months. Decided he needed it on battery for a day and the battery wouldn't charge. Interesting he got it to charge a few months later (Not sure how) but batteries are always a bad idea for anything important. That homes of the future thing showed that mad dad who unplugged the bloke so he almost didn't get to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 My OH got a new laptop and decided he'd power it by mains as he is always near a socket. Battery sat on the side for 6 months. Decided he needed it on battery for a day and the battery wouldn't charge. Interesting he got it to charge a few months later (Not sure how) but batteries are always a bad idea for anything important. Tell that to anyone with a pacemaker What you are saying is that your OH can't read a manual, and this unfortunate trait is compounded by having no understanding of how different battery technologies work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Firstly, the Tesla Roadster is a 100K high performance car to begin with. So the amount of money is relative to that. The battery holds its charge for months when not being used, and alerts the owner and Tesla when charge gets low. Clever car! Tesla stated the issue in their warranty, in the same way an ICE manufacturer insists on regular services, oil changes etc, etc, etc,... This problem is not an issue with the high volume cars like the Nissan Leaf (see below) Not convinced. If Nissan can sort it out, so can Tesla. Seems to be an analagous problem to a design flaw in a regular motor which could leave you with a big bill, eg VW water pump bearings can disintegrate which throws off cambelt and ruins engine on their 20 valve 1.8 from the late nineties, or BMW's Nikasil problems with high sulphur fuel in the 90s. The instances may be rare, but it is the sort of flaw that ought to have been ironed out. I'm not sure you need to go into the eleccy/fossil fuel debate- it's just a question of design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It does seem a bizarre oversight, given the complexity of modern battery management systems. It would be pretty simple to do it- even my lithium bike light shuts down when it gets too low, and won't come on again until it is charged. I can see that it is a pretty rare event when the car is charged, but I can easily imagine rushing home to go on holiday, parking up, then clearing off for 2 weeks, only to find a dead car when I got home. Looks simple enough to fix - a firmware upgrade in the battery management system should fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadget Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm in two minds here 1) This problem could (and should) have been engineered away 2) You have to be pretty stupid to get your Tesla into this situation. Along the lines of droping your ICE car into neutral, revving it to 16,000 rpm and then complaining when the engine blows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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