French Property

[felix]

I'm completely new here and had a general question. Given the decline in French house prices generally recently, how has Nice fared?

You are not the only one interested!

Home owners better not know this, as none of them is willing to drop their prices yet.

Most people I talk to (that do not want to sell their own property), tell me to wait till October.

You will read similar stuff on this forum.

[Guest redwine]

Hello everyone,

I'm completely new here and had a general question. Given the decline in French house prices generally recently, how has Nice fared?

Has anyone noticed a slowdown and is there a rough % change in the average price.

there is no average house price in france as we don't have any offical govt figures or at least an independant group without self-intrest HPI lobby if you can read french then why do'nt you google "nice immobilier" they all look expensive to me

[Yakubu22]

Thanks for that! One of my follow up questions was going to be is there a Land Registry type database were stats are published from. I now know this is not the case.

I know loads of immobilier websites for the Nice area and yes prices do seem very expensive.

Do people know if sellers (in the Nice area) are more willing to negotiate and offer reasonable discounts from their list price?

Also, does anyone know if there are any Bank/Euro mortgage lender websites that allow you to see what mortgage rate/terms are avalaible? I've been on BNP Paribas but cant find any of their rates publsihed for any of their mortgage products.

Thanks again

[Agentimmo]

Thanks for that! One of my follow up questions was going to be is there a Land Registry type database were stats are published from. I now know this is not the case.

I know loads of immobilier websites for the Nice area and yes prices do seem very expensive.

Do people know if sellers (in the Nice area) are more willing to negotiate and offer reasonable discounts from their list price?

Also, does anyone know if there are any Bank/Euro mortgage lender websites that allow you to see what mortgage rate/terms are avalaible? I've been on BNP Paribas but cant find any of their rates publsihed for any of their mortgage products.

Thanks again

Give the EA a miss. Go direct to the seller.

WWW.PAP.FR

then click on the English language flag.

Any prices you see can/should be negotiated down. Start at -30% and see how you fare.

[Yakubu22]

Give the EA a miss. Go direct to the seller.

WWW.PAP.FR

then click on the English language flag.

Any prices you see can/should be negotiated down. Start at -30% and see how you fare.

Thanks, I have already seen that site. But it is very useful! You really think sellers will negotiate that much from their list price?

Any ideas on if there are Bank/Euro mortgage lender websites that allow you to see what mortgage rates are avalaible?

[whiterabbit]

Thanks for that! One of my follow up questions was going to be is there a Land Registry type database were stats are published from. I now know this is not the case.

I know loads of immobilier websites for the Nice area and yes prices do seem very expensive.

Do people know if sellers (in the Nice area) are more willing to negotiate and offer reasonable discounts from their list price?

Also, does anyone know if there are any Bank/Euro mortgage lender websites that allow you to see what mortgage rate/terms are avalaible? I've been on BNP Paribas but cant find any of their rates publsihed for any of their mortgage products.

Thanks again

For sure right now Nice apartments are in decline. A few agents such as "Totally Nice" made a killing in the last couple of years but now they are lowering prices and a lot more stuff is coming onto the market that hasn't beed fixed up, a year ago this stuff was getting snapped up by developers.

[Bruce Banner]

We're chilling out in Villeneuve Loubet (just down the coast from Nice) for a couple of weeks.

The town is full of unsold new build flats. Asking prices are sky high, it looks like a classic case of denial.

[Guest redwine]

We're chilling out in Villeneuve Loubet (just down the coast from Nice) for a couple of weeks.

The town is full of unsold new build flats. Asking prices are sky high, it looks like a classic case of denial.

enjoy the sun the sun it's free ! the unsold flat's might be "dero

bien's" btls instead of building council houses the french govrt built btls you buy and then you rent and in return you get a big tax reduction only problem with that is that they built so many but now theres no demand so they are all for sale where i live its full of them so the place looks like a ghost town this town ain't nothing but a ghost town "the specials"

[Smog]

The appartments sold under the "Loi Robien" are the biggest part of the problem with oversupply in my opinion....

Developer knows that buyer will be getting tax reductions so increases asking price on appartment appropriately (causing knock-on effect on non-Robien property). Buyer pays over the odds (off plan) and then finds out that there is a massive oversupply of rentable property (what a surprise) and can't find tenants so is left with an empty property which they've overpaid for anyway regardless of the falling prices, and on which they'll still receive tax-breaks even if its empty.

And now there is another new law similar to Robien (can't remember the name, wife was told about it the other day) with bigger tax breaks sucking more mugs into buying unrentable property they'll be lumbered with.

[Guest redwine]

And now there is another new law similar to Robien (can't remember the name, wife was told about it the other day) with bigger tax breaks sucking more mugs into buying unrentable property they'll be lumbered with.

the new law is called the "loi scellier" tax breaks up to 8 333 euros a year

[Smog]

the new law is called the "loi scellier" tax breaks up to 8 333 euros a year

Thats the one.... now the wife was told that this is a no-brainer in terms of investment (where have I heard that before) especically with the interest rates as they are - you can easily find a 10-year fixed at 3% (ish)... she was told this by a friend who is the director of a large French bank, I'll be weighing up this advice with that of my neighbour who is director of a large property development company who made bucket-fulls of cash from Robien but advised us to steer clear.

[thod]

Thanks, I have already seen that site. But it is very useful! You really think sellers will negotiate that much from their list price?

You can easily get 30% off. I sat down with a notaire and he was showing me some and the prices varied wildly. He was telling me what he thought they would go for. They may ask 200k but he would say 100k. It is their expectations that are wildly optimistic, if they won't drop the price, don't buy. Any fool can buy above market or at market rates. What tends to happen is they sit, often for years, at inflated prices until the seller becomes reasonable. There are vast numbers for sale, nothing is moving and there are plenty of distressed sellers atm.

Going through an estate agent is usually a bad move. Go to the notaires or look at their web sites. The estate agents just add a few thousand for giving you a tour. You can visit yourself and cut them out of the deal. They will have far more property for sale than you see at the estate agents. They will be able to help you out, for example you want a house with land, he will know of a house and the neighbouring farmer that will sell you some.

I am seeing similar houses with one priced double what the other one is. Don't get ripped off because you don't understand the system.

Edited May 23, 2009 by thod

[Guest redwine]

You can easily get 30% off. I sat down with a notaire and he was showing me some and the prices varied wildly. He was telling me what he thought they would go for. They may ask 200k but he would say 100k. It is their expectations that are wildly optimistic, if they won't drop the price, don't buy. Any fool can buy above market or at market rates. What tends to happen is they sit, often for years, at inflated prices until the seller becomes reasonable. There are vast numbers for sale, nothing is moving and there are plenty of distressed sellers atm.

Going through an estate agent is usually a bad move. Go to the notaires or look at their web sites. The estate agents just add a few thousand for giving you a tour. You can visit yourself and cut them out of the deal. They will have far more property for sale than you see at the estate agents. They will be able to help you out, for example you want a house with land, he will know of a house and the neighbouring farmer that will sell you some.

I am seeing similar houses with one priced double what the other one is. Don't get ripped off because you don't understand the system.

i am not so sure if going through a "notaire" is any better than a "ea " judging by there free ad's prices they seem to me to be "bubble" prices after all they are there to makef money, but i don't like the way in which they sell there product and there websites are often not updated if they have one at all !

the real problem in france is that you don't know what the real price is in the housing market all landmarks and bearings have been lost its the jungle

[Fromage Frais]

This is all good advice it sounds exactly the same as my situation here over the med in Tunisia. I always watch this thread as its little France and what your saying about Nice could be any area here.

All the same issues....all empty, nothing selling, prices far far to high both businesses and houses.

People also are very rude they just want the free money again its their right to buy at 30k euros and sell for 500K

[Guest redwine]

l the same issues....all empty, nothing selling, prices far far to high both businesses and houses.

People also are very rude they just want the free money again its their right to buy at 30k euros and sell for 500K

went into "the lottissment" today or new private estate always built on the outskirts of a town not to far be not close enough

sign of the times the 4x4 or suvs have all vanished looks like lots of downgrading into fiat pandas or c3's

lots of denial bought for 160k and they will sell for 400k never heard of sub primes the credit crunch after all its an anglo saxon problem or more like they don't want to know it as its not part of making

money in housing

the only problem is that the buyers have vanished and they are slowly waking up to this but its going to be hard to admit that you are in negative equity

[Firefly]

went into "the lottissment" today or new private estate always built on the outskirts of a town not to far be not close enough

sign of the times the 4x4 or suvs have all vanished looks like lots of downgrading into fiat pandas or c3's

lots of denial bought for 160k and they will sell for 400k never heard of sub primes the credit crunch after all its an anglo saxon problem or more like they don't want to know it as its not part of making

money in housing

yes but they may have spent 300k doing the place up.

[Guest redwine]

yes but they may have spent 300k doing the place up.

mate of mine who works at "mr bricolage" a french diy supermarket has just been laid off told me that diy boom is over

people arent buying new showers gardin patios bricks and paint etc

[Agentimmo]

went into "the lottissment" today or new private estate always built on the outskirts of a town not to far be not close enough

sign of the times the 4x4 or suvs have all vanished looks like lots of downgrading into fiat pandas or c3's

lots of denial bought for 160k and they will sell for 400k never heard of sub primes the credit crunch after all its an anglo saxon problem or more like they don't want to know it as its not part of making

money in housing

the only problem is that the buyers have vanished and they are slowly waking up to this but its going to be hard to admit that you are in negative equity

That sounds like many lotissements around the Cannes/Antibes/Villeneuve area. 3/4 bed semis were selling for 180-220K euros until around 2001. Then whoosh.....it all went a bit silly. Some semis being built in N. Antibes are being touted at 400K euros, down about 100K euros or more than they would have asked for 18months ago. I suspect the developers might lop off another 100K euros if nothing is moving by September......

The local media and EA's are still trying to keep the market afloat. But I've been hearing from friends in the hotel trade that bookings are WELL down this year. Worryingly so. I've been saying it for ages, but the Cote d'Azur market will only wake up and smell the coffee after the summer season is over, cash is banked, then the deciders take the decision to start shutting down businesses, reduce the workforce, etc.

PS. Yes, I've noticed as well the massive number of C3's on the road. Also, a 4x4 dealer in Antibes shut up shop 6 months ago.......

[Agentimmo]

mate of mine who works at "mr bricolage" a french diy supermarket has just been laid off told me that diy boom is over

people arent buying new showers gardin patios bricks and paint etc

Sorry to hear that. I like Mr Bricolage....much more friendly than Castorama....

After denial by the govt and the local region council, it looks like the bad times are about to roll.

[non frog]

...

Any ideas on if there are Bank/Euro mortgage lender websites that allow you to see what mortgage rates are avalaible?

Not sure what is online but Barclays offer mortgages and cater for the Brit market. Several banks that offer English language Internet banking.

Average is about 4.15% -- http://www.lefigaro.fr/immobilier/2009/05/...x-ralentit-.php

Chris

[Guest redwine]

Sorry to hear that. I like Mr Bricolage....much more friendly than Castorama....

After denial by the govt and the local region council, it looks like the bad times are about to roll.

i agree local govt are in total denial they are going to put local taxes up so they can plant more trees as if here in the jura we haven't got enough trees (its like sending coal to newcastle )

the local press talk as if nothing is happening the usual village bal or loto or rugby team no serious articles about economic problems

silence total and yet people aren't stupid the buzz is here they know things are going down hill nobody in the shops ,factories on a 3 day week etc

things will only get worse afterall you cant just pretend that nothing is happening

[Guest redwine]

That sounds like many lotissements around the Cannes/Antibes/Villeneuve area. 3/4 bed semis were selling for 180-220K euros until around 2001. Then whoosh.....it all went a bit silly. Some semis being built in N. Antibes are being touted at 400K euros, down about 100K euros or more than they would have asked for 18months ago. I suspect the developers might lop off another 100K euros if nothing is moving by September......

The local media and EA's are still trying to keep the market afloat. But I've been hearing from friends in the hotel trade that bookings are WELL down this year. e]

the same thing happened here after 2001 things went sky high they called it "the effect suisse" as everybody was making good money in switzerland or so the media liked show things

2009 its difficult to find work in geneve and house prices are starting to go down in pays gex but its going to be hard and long EA's still think that the good times will soon be coming back

the only problem is they can't give a date ?

[Agentimmo]

Interesting main atricle in Nice Matin's property supplement yesterday. I'll see if I can find a link later.

States that holiday rental homes are experiencing a severe lack of clients this summer. (no surprise there....)

The St. Tropez area has been v. badly hit, with the wealthy shunning it in favour of less expensive areas along the coast. This is repeated all along the chain.

My words :

Many who bought villas for capital appreciation are seeing major price falls (20% seems to be the norm). Income from rentals is now dwindling. Nice Matin suggests that anyone wanting to rent should haggle quite a bit. There are still plenty of rentals on the market, from villas to studios, which is exceptional for this time of year.

My opinion of 6 months ago still stands: The Riviera market will muddle through summer and the last of the cash will be banked. Come October, we'll see sell-offs and business failures. The smart money should still stay out. This market has quite a way to fall yet......

[Guest redwine]

Interesting main atricle in Nice Matin's property supplement yesterday. I'll see if I can find a link later.

States that holiday rental homes are experiencing a severe lack of clients this summer. (no surprise there....)

The St. Tropez area has been v. badly hit, with the wealthy shunning it in favour of less expensive areas along the coast. This is repeated all along the chain.

My words :

Many who bought villas for capital appreciation are seeing major price falls (20% seems to be the norm). Income from rentals is now dwindling. Nice Matin suggests that anyone wanting to rent should haggle quite a bit. There are still plenty of rentals on the market, from villas to studios, which is exceptional for this time of year.

My opinion of 6 months ago still stands: The Riviera market will muddle through summer and the last of the cash will be banked. Come October, we'll see sell-offs and business failures. The smart money should still stay out. This market has quite a way to fall yet......

Nice Matin is talking about "property" nothing in Le Progres or on the tv i thought that "property" in France had become another "sujet tabou" abit like talking about money

At least you can always visit the french website "Bulle immobiliere"

I don't think that they even talk about property anymore been so long since i heard about anybody buying a house in France mind you it does bring back memories

[Agentimmo]

Nice Matin is talking about "property" nothing in Le Progres or on the tv i thought that "property" in France had become another "sujet tabou" abit like talking about money

At least you can always visit the french website "Bulle immobiliere"

I don't think that they even talk about property anymore been so long since i heard about anybody buying a house in France mind you it does bring back memories

Tres amusant mon ami

My next door neighbour told me this week that they are going to put their place on the market and start searching for something else locally. Will be interesting to see how they fare. Will keep everyone updated with any info I glean from them...

A friend who works for an agence immo tells me that the Russians are still buying at the top of the market on the Cote d'Azur. Unlike 3 years ago when they turned up and bought within the hour, they are now negotiating hard. 20-30% reductions are the starting point on villas costing between 5M-20M euros. And it's taking weeks or months for them to sign.

PS. Nice Matin has to talk up property. Without it, about 70% of their advertising revenue will disappear. A shocking EA mouthpiece at the best of times...........