Yorkshire Golden Triangle - Harrogate & Around

[strbear]

I live in a village between Ilkley and Harrogate - As you can guess from the name I have a nice house buying fund but don't want to buy in the current climate and rent a very nice barn conversion.

The only area I'll buy in is Ilkley / Harrogate / York and because its desirable I bet it will be one of the last to start a decline - does anybody else want to cheer up an old man by sharing stories of falling house prices in this area?

If so bring out your anecdotes . . . . . .

Regards

SB

[strbear]

We'll in response to the resounding silence I'll kick things off - from today's Telegraph

That means sellers, too, must rethink their strategy, as James and Belinda McElvie, who are trying to move within North Yorkshire’s “golden triangle”, know only too well.

When they first put Ebor House, an attractive four-bedroom home overlooking the village green in Nun Monk-ton, on the market in May, the sun was shining and house prices were rising. Seven weeks later, the McElvies, who have two children, Lottie, 4 and Phoebe, 2, still hadn’t received an offer. A fortnight after that, they slashed the asking price by £25,000 to £750,000.

“I don’t think we were being greedy,” says James, 43, a commercial chartered surveyor. “We had four valuations and chose a middle one. We thought it would sell quickly, but it seems the market is much harder than it was.”

Belinda, 42, is equally nonplussed. “We had a lot of viewings, but no offers.” she says. “It wasn’t what we expected. All our plans are on hold until we sell.”

Will their price cut be enough to tempt potential buyers? “You have to be bold about it,” Thomas says. “Knocking £10,000 off a £900,000 house isn’t going to make a difference. You have to encourage new buyers and place it in a different price category.

“If vendors wish to sell, they have to be prepared to accept offers at a lower level than they could have hoped for a month ago. Vendors should accept offers at the guide price and not rely on competition to push the price up.”

Donnell is even more blunt. “If you need to sell in the next couple of months, then you need to be realistic,” he warns. “Sellers may have to take quite a hit.”

Not sure £25K is slashing but its a start

SB

[Wad]

I live in a village between Ilkley and Harrogate - As you can guess from the name I have a nice house buying fund but don't want to buy in the current climate and rent a very nice barn conversion.

The only area I'll buy in is Ilkley / Harrogate / York and because its desirable I bet it will be one of the last to start a decline - does anybody else want to cheer up an old man by sharing stories of falling house prices in this area?

If so bring out your anecdotes . . . . . .

Regards

SB

I live in Oxfordshire now but used to live near York as a child and still go back frequently. The housing market in the 'Golden Triangle' is even madder than Oxfordshire. At least down here wages and rents do sort of support local prices to some extent. Up there, rents reflect the local economy but house prices reflect what incoming SE/London buyers are willings and able to pay if they have sold their house down here.

During boom times, the 'Golden Triangle' is/was always driven by SE/London money but in recessions prices revert to local economy levels and that is not much to shout about. The local economy is certainly not big enough to support the local housing market in the Golden Triangle at the level it is presently at.

Lots of SE/London money for BTL flats - indeed I know someone who lives in Oxfordshire but who mainly invests in York flats. Same story at the top end of the market, where £750k - £1 MILLION is increasingly being seen as the kind of price that has to be paid to get a 'decent family house' which is code for 5 beds, near a nice school in York/Harrogate and it is mainly people who come form the area but who moved South after University and are now releasing gains from the SE/London market and returning North to educate their kids that buy these types of properties. In the retirement bracket, again mainly SE/London money buying up nice houses in villages and forcing out young local families.

The Golden Triangle is not a locals market either at the bottom end of top end at the moment and has not been for the last five yearswhich leaves peaople who work in teh local econmoy squeezed into buying in the middle bracket or renting as my sister does who still live sup there.

In summary, The Golden Triangle market will freeze over when the SE/London market cools - it is beginning to happen but not near enough yet.

[bambam]

When they first put Ebor House, an attractive four-bedroom home overlooking the village green in Nun Monk-ton, on the market in May, the sun was shining and house prices were rising. Seven weeks later, the McElvies, who have two children, Lottie, 4 and Phoebe, 2, still hadn’t received an offer. A fortnight after that, they slashed the asking price by £25,000 to £750,000.

“I don’t think we were being greedy,” says James, 43, a commercial chartered surveyor. “We had four valuations and chose a middle one. We thought it would sell quickly, but it seems the market is much harder than it was.”

Belinda, 42, is equally nonplussed. “We had a lot of viewings, but no offers.” she says. “It wasn’t what we expected. All our plans are on hold until we sell.”

Will their price cut be enough to tempt potential buyers? “You have to be bold about it,” Thomas says. “Knocking £10,000 off a £900,000 house isn’t going to make a difference. You have to encourage new buyers and place it in a different price category.

My parents sold their 4-bed detached bungalow with double garage, study, large garden, ponds, overlooking village cricket pitch, fields, near Harrogate, for £225k in 2001.....

[strbear]

My parents sold their 4-bed detached bungalow with double garage, study, large garden, ponds, overlooking village cricket pitch, fields, near Harrogate, for £225k in 2001.....

Thats my experience when looking though houseprices.co.uk - the houses here have gone through the roof in about 5 years BUT to my mind the fundamentals here REALLY REALLY don't support the prices. A friend of mine paid 60K for his place in 2000 - its now £300K - oh and its a 3 bed semi. To my mind thats an average house - the average salary here is 26K so thats 12 times income.

Thanks for the info

SB

[KTeetwo]

Wasn't this 4 bedroom semi behind the Police Station in Harrogate new on the market last autumn

at around £435,000?

From HousePrices;-

1 26/01/2007 £331,000 Semi F No Map 22, Woodside, Harrogate, North Yorkshire, HG1 5NG

If true, looks like about a 25% reduction.

If not, apologies.

[Rachel]

funnily enough, there's a possibility me and my fella might be moving to that area (job possibility in Boston Spa).

Just been looking at Rightmove and bit disappointed that house prices are so high there! I really thought they would be cheaper because wages are so much lower than where we currently live (Bristol)

just will have to wait for prices to go down (however long that takes!)

saying that, are there any areas or small villages that are particularly nice around Boston Spa to live in?

[strbear]

funnily enough, there's a possibility me and my fella might be moving to that area (job possibility in Boston Spa).

Just been looking at Rightmove and bit disappointed that house prices are so high there! I really thought they would be cheaper because wages are so much lower than where we currently live (Bristol)

just will have to wait for prices to go down (however long that takes!)

saying that, are there any areas or small villages that are particularly nice around Boston Spa to live in?

Rachel

There are a host of nice villages around there - its just north east of Leeds and south east of Harrogate - the main place is Wetherby (market town) but to be honest you could be anywhere up to 20 miles away and still have a 30 min or less commute - further North (up the A1M) is cheaper and within 20 minutes the prices fall away significantly - also going South East (towards Selby) prices fall away sharply - but if you want to live in the nice places its very expensive since all the firms moved up here

If you have lots of money then Clifford is nice, try Collingham or Harwood, to the north is Spofforth.

Enjoy

SB

[tinecu]

I live in a village between Ilkley and Harrogate - As you can guess from the name I have a nice house buying fund but don't want to buy in the current climate and rent a very nice barn conversion.

The only area I'll buy in is Ilkley / Harrogate / York and because its desirable I bet it will be one of the last to start a decline - does anybody else want to cheer up an old man by sharing stories of falling house prices in this area?

If so bring out your anecdotes . . . . . .

Regards

SB

They are truly bloated markets but of the three house prices are weakest in york, but its still a stronger performer than most of the UK...flat prices seem to be falling though

See: http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_...&lastyear=1

[Rachel]

Rachel

There are a host of nice villages around there - its just north east of Leeds and south east of Harrogate - the main place is Wetherby (market town) but to be honest you could be anywhere up to 20 miles away and still have a 30 min or less commute - further North (up the A1M) is cheaper and within 20 minutes the prices fall away significantly - also going South East (towards Selby) prices fall away sharply - but if you want to live in the nice places its very expensive since all the firms moved up here

If you have lots of money then Clifford is nice, try Collingham or Harwood, to the north is Spofforth.

Enjoy

SB

thanks as i have no idea about the area!

[strbear]

Well I think this is the first reduced price house I've seen on Rightmove in the area - heres to many more to come!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-759...=9&tr_t=buy

SB

[strbear]

FEARS that Yorkshire cities are being swamped by flat developments have prompted urgent talks to head-off a possible crisis in the region's property market.

A review is due to be conducted in the New Year to establish Yorkshire's housing needs over concerns that a glut of apartment developments is saturating the market.

The Yorkshire and Humber Assembly, which is charged with overseeing the region's housing strategy, will spearhead the review, which will involve talks with local planning authorities and developers.

Concerns are growing that the Government's controversial plans to build 22,000 homes a year in the region will not be met if the property market is destabilised by an excess of flats for sale.

From the YP yesterday - there really are some switched on cookies out there looking after our interests!

SB

[Catch22]

From the YP yesterday - there really are some switched on cookies out there looking after our interests!

SB

typical, of the media and those who rule us, they only admit to the facts when it is as plain as having a pike staff stuck up their a@rse

[Wad]

My Dad told me last night that he knows someone who sold their house in Whitby to a South East buyer without even having to advertise. Typical South East retirement buyer - holiday cottage stuff.

On the other hand he says that a few of the EAs he knows are really struggling to sell anything at all in the 3/4/5 bed family house category only five miles inland. He also says Malton is literally dead on its feet. Shops shutting down, cattle market closing.

York flats just a huge glut of them and even very top end £1m homes cutting by 5% on the asking price and probably selling 10% below that if you can get a bid that is.

Moral is that the local economy is just not supporting house prices in North Yorkshire and the last dregs of South East money only supporting really special downsizing / retirement type property.

[microbe]

FWIW:

21/09/2007 £737,000 Det. F No Map Ebor House, The Green, Nun Monkton, York, North Yorkshire, YO26 8EW from www.houseprices.co.uk

From experience (as an EA) in the last crash.

There is a pile of crap that no-one can sell except in a boom. These are houses which no-one would want to live in and will only buy out of desperation. These are the ones that take the big hit in a slump. At the other end of the range, there are genuinely desirable properties which will hold up well even in a crash. Then there is the stuff in between.

I would expect the Golden Triangle to hold up 'better' than the grubbier parts of Leeds, but in the end, prices will be pegged to the local market - there is a level of premium that people simply won't be prepared to pay.

However, it is possible that the Golden Triangle premium has become overinflated in the boom through speculation, in which case, while the 'star' properties might hold up well regardless, the average property in, say, Harrogate, might fall more than the average property in Leeds.

Which is not much of an answer to what will happen, but at some point you are going to have to exercise your judgement....

[tinecu]

Time for an update....

York house prices

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_...&lastyear=1

Marlet meltdown!

Harrogate

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_...&lastyear=1

Flats crash, volume down by about half overall

Ilkley

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_...&lastyear=1

not looking pretty, but least affected of the three so far.

[Bearstrain]

Deleted!

Edited May 16, 2008 by Bearstrain

[the end is a bit nigher]

Just walked past a few fantasy retailers in Harrogate and please to say prices are crashing superbly.

I have a friend who unfortunately has a £160k mortgage on a 2 bed shoe box. Just seen one 3 doors down up for £119,950. So says the best places can't crash?

[Brave New World]

Just walked past a few fantasy retailers in Harrogate and please to say prices are crashing superbly.

I have a friend who unfortunately has a £160k mortgage on a 2 bed shoe box. Just seen one 3 doors down up for £119,950. So says the best places can't crash?

The whole economic catastrophe unfolding will not leave anywhere untouched. The folk who say that there the nice places will hardly be effected are must have a vested interest ie they own a home in that area!!!

In Harrogate there are a hell of a lot of folk who have played at keeping up with the Jonses who will now be over exposed with a lot of debt and any spare credit taken up in repaying credit cards etc. Factor into it the downturn in the tinance sector in Leeds and there will be a lot of folk living in negative equity.

Even though it is a lovely place, if a little superficial, seeing the price of terraces - south side around Hornbeam jump from circa 50-80k to 200k in the space of 8 years ludicrous and will leave a lot of people who have brought in the last 4-5 years screwed.

schadenfreude i know but i am ready and waiting for 2011 to by a lovely house at the expense of those bank of mum and dad and BTL'ers - schadenfreude i know but my house purchase would be a home not a bleedin piggy bank of MEW excess!

[CviewUK]

In Harrogate there are a hell of a lot of folk who have played at keeping up with the Jonses

I cannot recall seeing so many up market cars with personalised number plates.

[tinecu]

The whole economic catastrophe unfolding will not leave anywhere untouched. The folk who say that there the nice places will hardly be effected are must have a vested interest ie they own a home in that area!!!

In Harrogate there are a hell of a lot of folk who have played at keeping up with the Jonses who will now be over exposed with a lot of debt and any spare credit taken up in repaying credit cards etc. Factor into it the downturn in the tinance sector in Leeds and there will be a lot of folk living in negative equity.

Even though it is a lovely place, if a little superficial, seeing the price of terraces - south side around Hornbeam jump from circa 50-80k to 200k in the space of 8 years ludicrous and will leave a lot of people who have brought in the last 4-5 years screwed.

schadenfreude i know but i am ready and waiting for 2011 to by a lovely house at the expense of those bank of mum and dad and BTL'ers - schadenfreude i know but my house purchase would be a home not a bleedin piggy bank of MEW excess!

Actually I think many of these 'safe as houses' areas will fall later and harder than many other areas that have experienced exconomic hard times in living memory.

Simply because buying a house in these areas was 'such a safe bet' that even conservative folk totally over extended themselves.

[refugee]

Actually I think many of these 'safe as houses' areas will fall later and harder than many other areas that have experienced exconomic hard times in living memory.

Simply because buying a house in these areas was 'such a safe bet' that even conservative folk totally over extended themselves.

I live here in rented and I know what influences the market. Many people in the areas don't have mortgages and have not had them for years. I'd really like to see prices come down a long way but I think it's a pipe dream. It's the same with the rents. Anything with big rooms brings in high rents and recently I see that one and two bed rents have gone up - I know because I'm looking for a new billet. The constantly changing temp staff in the area and the money they bring in will keep values and rents artificially inflated. That said, if you spot anything, let me know. A building plot for around £50k will be just fine.

The thing to watch is Feather Smailes and Scales auctions, very small but local.

[Brave New World]

I live here in rented and I know what influences the market. Many people in the areas don't have mortgages and have not had them for years. I'd really like to see prices come down a long way but I think it's a pipe dream. It's the same with the rents. Anything with big rooms brings in high rents and recently I see that one and two bed rents have gone up - I know because I'm looking for a new billet. The constantly changing temp staff in the area and the money they bring in will keep values and rents artificially inflated. That said, if you spot anything, let me know. A building plot for around £50k will be just fine.

The thing to watch is Feather Smailes and Scales auctions, very small but local.

Don't see at all how you think prices in HG will stay high.

Just look on Rightmove at the number of properties from 160-220k that are piling up and this is meant to be the slow time of the years

No one can afford to come into the market at that value now credit has tightened, coupled with the fact that your 24-34 FTB group are usually the first in line when it comes to redundancies. There is no way HG can sustain a stand alone bubble in the area; i don't understand how 'temp staff' would be why the market would be sustained? Leeds is about to be bent over with major finance industry loses, another key employer for HG folk.

Keep renting and start looking to buy early 2010 when 100k will get you a nice gaff in a nice part of town. Normailty will be back with us before long.

[refugee]

Well BNW I hope you're right about normality. Prices round here have been crazy for years which is why I have never bought here, used to live nearer Richmond which was a bit more reasonable although not if you took into account the almost total absence of work opportunities. I worked in Bradford for 6 years and commuted, 3 1/4 hrs driving a day.

I plan to rent for as long as my fixed interest rate savings last and then I'll buy, hopefully before the hyperinflation starts. I need a new rental though and smaller places have gone up recently which I find weird. I don't like towns much so live in a village.

[drew]

Hi Guys,

My partner and I have a typical Victorian Town House on the Prime side of Harrogate opposite the Grammar School on supposedly one of the most sort after roads in Harrogate. We originally went on the market at £495,000 and 4 weeks later we had a good offer of £442,500 and accepted it this sale subsequently fell through but have now managed to sell again for £430,000 and all seems to be going to plan (touch wood!) and the anticipated date of completion should be around the end of March. We have found another property we would like to buy and managed to get £55,000 off the asking price, my dilemma now is should we buy again straight away or go into rented knowing that house prices over the next year are going to fall further? The sensible person in me thinks we should go into rented and wait for further price falls but the other part of me thinks that we shouldn't put our lives on hold!.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.